Follow up about Jackson Premieres

[MCsAngel2]

I have already gone to them in fact they were the ones who fitted me in premieres matching the recommendations on here, they managed to produce custom insoles and adjust the blade for me (made gliding and edges significantly easier) but they did tell me that due to my pronation and weight the boots would still not last anywhere near as long as it would for other people but even then this I wouldn't have expected.

The only hard thing for me is actually getting a hold of them, I have been contacting them the entire of last week and not a single peep has been heard in response.

No, 6 to 18 months is about right for a jumper. The short range, but still in range. I would probably talk about getting Elites next time, that might help.

 

[WednesdayMarch]

I have already gone to them in fact they were the ones who fitted me in premieres matching the recommendations on here, they managed to produce custom insoles and adjust the blade for me (made gliding and edges significantly easier) but they did tell me that due to my pronation and weight the boots would still not last anywhere near as long as it would for other people but even then this I wouldn't have expected.

The only hard thing for me is actually getting a hold of them, I have been contacting them the entire of last week and not a single peep has been heard in response.

Hm. Not impressive on the communication side.

How long have your boots actually lasted? It's important to understand that they don't last forever. As an ice dancer, I used to go through a pair of top level boots in a year and that was back in the days before dance boots were a thing, so they were boots designed for the stresses of jumping, even though I didn't jump. Sadly, equipment costs for this sport are ongoing, not a "buy a good boot once and you're done". These days, even skating about 3 hours a week and far more sedately than I did before, I still went through a pair of high level boots (Graf Dance) in about 18 months. I'm interested to see how long my Risport Royal Pros last in comparison.

 

[eclipse]

Hm. Not impressive on the communication side.

How long have your boots actually lasted? It's important to understand that they don't last forever. As an ice dancer, I used to go through a pair of top level boots in a year and that was back in the days before dance boots were a thing, so they were boots designed for the stresses of jumping, even though I didn't jump. Sadly, equipment costs for this sport are ongoing, not a "buy a good boot once and you're done". These days, even skating about 3 hours a week and far more sedately than I did before, I still went through a pair of high level boots (Graf Dance) in about 18 months. I'm interested to see how long my Risport Royal Pros last in comparison.

Well so it has been 2 months skating in them, I brought them to a skate tech and they said they still have enough support left in them for a few more but I really need keep an eye on any more progression of both the crease and skills wise which may cause a greater decrease condition

I understood that you would have to replace boots relatively often but not less than a year to be fair.

 

[MCsAngel2]

Two months?? You've broken down Premieres in two months?? Well, there's a mismatch somewhere then. Either you actually weigh more than stated in your original post, or you have an *extremely* strong knee bend. You shouldn't be breaking down correctly supportive boots in two months of skating 6-7 hours a week.

ETA: or you're wearing the wrong size boots and these are too big.

I don't recall anything in your original post about the pronation you're talking about here, so if it's significant you'll need professionally done orthotics and not over the counter insoles. But it seems pretty clear you're going to need even stiffer boots.

 

[gliese]

I broke down Jackson Elites (don't remember the numbers but it was one of the stiffer ones) within 3 months when I was doing axel. That was the indication to me that they did not fit correctly. Switched brands and it was fine.

 

[MCsAngel2]

Well so it has been 2 months skating in them, I brought them to a skate tech and they said they still have enough support left in them for a few more but I really need keep an eye on any more progression of both the crease and skills wise which may cause a greater decrease condition

I understood that you would have to replace boots relatively often but not less than a year to be fair.

First of all, with your description of the crease, I would say that your landing boot is broken down. It's ability to support your jumps going forward is iffy, and you need to order a new pair of boots.

Second of all, how long boots last will depend on the skater's anatomy (weight and strength of knee bend), how many hours a week you train, and your skill level, combined with how stiff your boots are. A year is a reasonable expectation for someone only doing single jumps, but clearly even Premieres aren't strong enough for you.

The last thing I wonder is if your boots are *really* the right size for you. Most adults have feet that have spread with age, which means a correctly sized boot is going to be a wider width than the regular width. But it might not be the stock wide, it might have to be a semi custom wide. Well most of those same adult skaters wind up getting fitted by inexperienced techs who go, "Oh, this boot that I thought was the right length for your foot doesn't fit, I'll just keep trying a bigger and bigger size until your foot can go in." Which means you have a boot that's too long for your foot, instead of a boot that's shorter, the right length for your foot, and wider. In skating, your boots have to be the right length AND the right width. Incorrectly sized boots are notorious for breaking down early (because they don't fit correctly around your foot and your foot moves around in the boot-in a properly sized boot, your foot will be essentially immobile).

 

[WednesdayMarch]

Well so it has been 2 months skating in them, I brought them to a skate tech and they said they still have enough support left in them for a few more but I really need keep an eye on any more progression of both the crease and skills wise which may cause a greater decrease condition

I understood that you would have to replace boots relatively often but not less than a year to be fair.

Two months?! Cripes. That's not right. Are you absolutely sure that they are the right size? It's quite common for boots that are too big to break down a lot more quickly, as your foot and ankle can move in ways that it really shouldn't and that puts considerable pressure on the boot. I'd be following it up with the fitter and supplier of the boots because that really doesn't sound right.

 

[MCsAngel2]

Definitely suspicious about the sizing now. I think you're in the UK so the sizing is different from the US, but here the rule of thumb is the correct boot size is generally one to two whole sizes smaller than your street shoe size. This is because in street shoes, there has to be room for your foot to move, and in figure skating boots, your foot shouldn't move at all. It's very common for people to buy skates that are the same size or maybe a half size smaller than your street shoes - those are too big. This is where the importance of getting the right size width comes into play, as most people just wear regular widths in street shoes and may not be aware that they are considered wide in figure boot standards. I wear a regular width street shoe, but my skating boots are 1.5 sizes smaller and are a EE width in Jackson. (regular width is A/B, so 4 widths wider than regular).

 

[gliese]

I think you're in the UK so the sizing is different from the US, but here the rule of thumb is the correct boot size is generally one to two whole sizes smaller than your street shoe size

Most boot brands used millimeters I thought?
The mm measurement of my boots are the same as all my shoes. 255 in shoes, 255 in boots.

 

[MCsAngel2]

Most boot brands used millimeters I thought?
The mm measurement of my boots are the same as all my shoes. 255 in shoes, 255 in boots.

Edea is the only brand I know that uses mm (and maybe Risport? Not sure). Jackson and Riedell use conventional shoe sizing.

 

[Girlbird]

Edea is the only brand I know that uses mm (and maybe Risport? Not sure). Jackson and Riedell use conventional shoe sizing.

Risport does use mm, but technically a 240 in Edea is a 245 in Risport. I don’t get it at all, but that’s the size conversion.

 

[eclipse]

Two months?? You've broken down Premieres in two months?? Well, there's a mismatch somewhere then. Either you actually weigh more than stated in your original post, or you have an *extremely* strong knee bend. You shouldn't be breaking down correctly supportive boots in two months of skating 6-7 hours a week.

ETA: or you're wearing the wrong size boots and these are too big.

I don't recall anything in your original post about the pronation you're talking about here, so if it's significant you'll need professionally done orthotics and not over the counter insoles. But it seems pretty clear you're going to need even stiffer boots.

Apparently I have lost weight since then so that can't be the case, I don't know so much about knee bend but that is something I try to have a lot of, the break in is mostly on my landing side so jumps are causing the brunt of the changes.

From what I could gather my fitter sent off my measurements to jackson themselves for them to choose the correct size so I would expect to be in the right size.

It was discovered by the fitter at the time of the boot where they tried custom making insoles to support my foot as best they can.

I broke down Jackson Elites (don't remember the numbers but it was one of the stiffer ones) within 3 months when I was doing axel. That was the indication to me that they did not fit correctly. Switched brands and it was fine.

What was the actual fit issue with jacksons for you?

First of all, with your description of the crease, I would say that your landing boot is broken down. It's ability to support your jumps going forward is iffy, and you need to order a new pair of boots.

Second of all, how long boots last will depend on the skater's anatomy (weight and strength of knee bend), how many hours a week you train, and your skill level, combined with how stiff your boots are. A year is a reasonable expectation for someone only doing single jumps, but clearly even Premieres aren't strong enough for you.

The last thing I wonder is if your boots are *really* the right size for you. Most adults have feet that have spread with age, which means a correctly sized boot is going to be a wider width than the regular width. But it might not be the stock wide, it might have to be a semi custom wide. Well most of those same adult skaters wind up getting fitted by inexperienced techs who go, "Oh, this boot that I thought was the right length for your foot doesn't fit, I'll just keep trying a bigger and bigger size until your foot can go in." Which means you have a boot that's too long for your foot, instead of a boot that's shorter, the right length for your foot, and wider. In skating, your boots have to be the right length AND the right width. Incorrectly sized boots are notorious for breaking down early (because they don't fit correctly around your foot and your foot moves around in the boot-in a properly sized boot, your foot will be essentially immobile).

I will make sure to, I just need to figure out the right move for me boot wise before I do.

That all makes sense to be fair.

They should be as from what I gather the skate fitter took my measurements and sent them directly to Jacksons when I asked them, this would make sense when I went to go put on the boots they were a W width instead of an M like the fitters said they probably would be.

Two months?! Cripes. That's not right. Are you absolutely sure that they are the right size? It's quite common for boots that are too big to break down a lot more quickly, as your foot and ankle can move in ways that it really shouldn't and that puts considerable pressure on the boot. I'd be following it up with the fitter and supplier of the boots because that really doesn't sound right.

As far as I am aware, the only portion of my foot that can move is my toes which have enough wiggle room so I can adjust pressure, it feels snug without being too tight, the only thing I have noticed is over time the top of the boot has become slightly more open than when I first started wearing them but all that has an effect on is allowing me to go slightly deeper on edges. I will contact them though to see their opinion on the matter if I can get a hold of them.

Definitely suspicious about the sizing now. I think you're in the UK so the sizing is different from the US, but here the rule of thumb is the correct boot size is generally one to two whole sizes smaller than your street shoe size. This is because in street shoes, there has to be room for your foot to move, and in figure skating boots, your foot shouldn't move at all. It's very common for people to buy skates that are the same size or maybe a half size smaller than your street shoes - those are too big. This is where the importance of getting the right size width comes into play, as most people just wear regular widths in street shoes and may not be aware that they are considered wide in figure boot standards. I wear a regular width street shoe, but my skating boots are 1.5 sizes smaller and are a EE width in Jackson. (regular width is A/B, so 4 widths wider than regular).

I understand what you mean to be fair I have tried to treat skate size and shoe size as two different issues and just going off of what actually fits, the insole when taken out reaches the correct points if I remember correctly so the boot itself should be wide enough and long enough. I may of course be wrong here

Another thing to bare in mind is I have high arches on top of my pronation which causes my foot to move around more inside the boot even with insoles there to support them if I remember what the fitter said

 

[eclipse]

@gliese @WednesdayMarch @MCsAngel2 @Ic3Rabbit So I just measured my own feet and they measure at 260mm long +-5 based on foot

Converted this on the jacksons website and this is a 7 and a 1/2 so that essentially is an extra half an inch at the end of the boot vs the closest jackson size (I was put in jacksons 9 and a 1/2)

Hopefully there is something I am missing here that someone can explain to me

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Apparently I have lost weight since then so that can't be the case, I don't know so much about knee bend but that is something I try to have a lot of, the break in is mostly on my landing side so jumps are causing the brunt of the changes.

From what I could gather my fitter sent off my measurements to jackson themselves for them to choose the correct size so I would expect to be in the right size.

It was discovered by the fitter at the time of the boot where they tried custom making insoles to support my foot as best they can.

What was the actual fit issue with jacksons for you?

I will make sure to, I just need to figure out the right move for me boot wise before I do.

That all makes sense to be fair.

They should be as from what I gather the skate fitter took my measurements and sent them directly to Jacksons when I asked them, this would make sense when I went to go put on the boots they were a W width instead of an M like the fitters said they probably would be.

As far as I am aware, the only portion of my foot that can move is my toes which have enough wiggle room so I can adjust pressure, it feels snug without being too tight, the only thing I have noticed is over time the top of the boot has become slightly more open than when I first started wearing them but all that has an effect on is allowing me to go slightly deeper on edges. I will contact them though to see their opinion on the matter if I can get a hold of them.

I understand what you mean to be fair I have tried to treat skate size and shoe size as two different issues and just going off of what actually fits, the insole when taken out reaches the correct points if I remember correctly so the boot itself should be wide enough and long enough. I may of course be wrong here

Another thing to bare in mind is I have high arches on top of my pronation which causes my foot to move around more inside the boot even with insoles there to support them if I remember what the fitter said

I actually have very high arches and pronate. You might want to switch to Risport. I can elaborate about this later if you'd like.

 

[eclipse]

I actually have very high arches and pronate. You might want to switch to Risport. I can elaborate about this later if you'd like.

That would be interesting to hear about when you have time to elaborate.

 

[gliese]

What was the actual fit issue with jacksons for you?

My foot wasn't V shaped enough for them. They squeezed my heel and had so much wiggle room around the toes and forefoot. It also caused really bad arch pain because my feet weren't held in place so I would grip with my toes.

 

[eclipse]

As a Follow up I am in contact with the skate shop about the sizing and since then I have tried on a 265 Edea (only available one I really could) which felt perfectly fine length wise although was tight at standard width around my small toe so I am certain you were all right about them being too big.