Grand Prix France cancelled

[ancientpeas]

So again I say: Skate America, Rost. cup, China and Japan are all going to run their events. There will be skating. There will also probably be some kind of virtual events.

I get that you want to see skating. I was super excited to see my favourite Canadian/European skaters perform. I live in Ottawa. I have tried to explain to people that we are back to a modified stage 2 which means we are basically being asked to go to work and school and stay home. We tried asking people to do this voluntarily and it didn't work. Right now the emphasis is on getting people to be able to go to work and keeping our hospitals from being completely overwhelmed. We haven't even hit winter or flu season yet.

I find it ridiculous to think that governments do not want these events to happen. They are big money makers (taxes from tickets, hotel rooms, travel) and what most governments care most about is making money. Money means they get reelected. It's just that, here at least, there are other factors that work within the decision making process and one of those limiting loss of life.

 

[Edwin]

But this is exactly the dillema that our government and society leaders have to deal with.

If the virus specifically attacked infants and school children, the societies' response would be completely different.

 

[ancientpeas]

So you're saying we should all stay locked inside our homes and cancel everything because there are people not following the law? Where I'm from they're fining people left and right if they don't wear masks. And, from what I'm able to observe, most are wearing them, 99%.
People get COVID from private parties at home and such, not a sport event like a GP this year. For real now.

Actually.. people can't be trusted to accurately self report where they might have gotten it from so they don't know where about a 1/3 of the cases are coming from. Unless you are tracked and traced they have no way of knowing.

Anyway.. this was a provincial decision. I have seen very little backlash here. A few pockets of people who don't want to wear masks and don't want a lockdown. But what we are trying to avoid here is the total lock down we had in the early spring again. Everything closed except grocery stores and essential services. All the schools closed. The government had to step in and support millions of people with 2000 dollar a month cheques. That is not something that we can afford to do long term so we are going through a modified level 2 aimed at keeping most people able to go work so that we don't have to support huge numbers again. It's a choice and this is the choice Ontario has decided it can live with.

 

[chuckm]

There have actually been 3 waves (at least in the US), the first one April 1, the second July 1, and the current wave Oct 1. The second wave started after most states eased restrictions, and the third when schools opened.

A neighbor recently told me that her grandfather (in his 80s) contracted Covid when he attended a Senior Dance party. Unfortunately, he died.

I do believe that people have to take responsibility for their own health and safety by wearing masks, observing social distancing, washing hands regularly, and avoiding large gatherings.

I myself am over 70 and have a heart condition, so I rarely go out except to medical appointments or to pick up prescriptions from the drugstore drive-up. I wear a mask at all times except at home or in my car. I haven't been to church since February. I have my groceries delivered weekly.

However, when I do go out I see people coming in and out of stores not wearing masks. These are mostly younger people who seem to feel CoVid isn't threatening to them. They don't consider that if they do become affected they can spread the disease to people who are threatened due to underlying conditions. Many younger people can have CoVid without experiencing any symptoms, so they are more dangerous to the community at large when it comes to spreading the disease.

 

[ancientpeas]

But this is exactly the dillema that our government and society leaders have to deal with.

If the virus specifically attacked infants and school children, the societies' response would be completely different.

Indeed it is. If babies start dying support for shutdowns will grow.

But lets be real here: A baby is potential. Potential what? Hopefully success and productivity and a good life. An older person who has worked hard, contributed to society and actually lived their potential is not discardable. Or at least they shouldn't be.

I really don't want to live in a world that says because you are older or sick that your life is not worth protecting. That is eugenics.

I go back to what I have said. This is the choice of the governments of Ontario and France almost certainly done so we don't have to go through another total shutdown. They couldn't allow this event to forward and also tell all the junior hockey teams, volleyball, soccer, etc that they couldn't have their tournaments. I'm actually really interested to see what they will do with the NHL season because if there is any sporting event Ontarians care about it's hockey and as far as I know the players don't want to do an NBA type bubble and the owners do not want to run the games to empty stands. Cancelling the NHL season is really going to get some people worked up here.

 

[Joekaz]

Holy Cow Dude.. you just said the quiet part out loud.

As someone who is likely in your "you should die for my social life" group (not because of age but because a compromised immune system) I'm going to say it to you: It's pretty callous that you seem to think the life of someone who is older or disabled is worth less than the life of a young healthy person.

Frankly I'm actually horrified by this opinion. My dad is 83 and has dementia. His life is precious. It is precious to me and to my step mother. Just because someone is old or sick does not mean they should give up their lives so you can watch a goddamn skating event. What kind of messed up crap is that?

You are correct. They should not give up their lives, they should take all precautions they can. And young people should not give up their jobs, homes, and family life because old unhealthy people die of natural causes. You should stop being so selfish, and think about the young people too. Just because they arent related to you doesn't make their lives less valuable than your family members, now does it?

 

[surimi]

So you're saying we should all stay locked inside our homes and cancel everything because there are people not following the law? Where I'm from they're fining people left and right if they don't wear masks. And, from what I'm able to observe, most are wearing them, 99%.
People get COVID from private parties at home and such, not a sport event like a GP this year. For real now.

No need to use this hyperbole on me. I asked a question in response to your claim that 'masks can be enforced', which you didn't answer. I am asking how you can make folk wear them if people decide to lie or if they really can't wear one. I myself don't know the answer. If people are obedient where you live, good for you. I am not so lucky it seems. Every time I am on public transport, at least one person has their nose out. In shopping galleries, I have seen staff -security and checkout clerks alike- with their noses out of their masks. If such people turn out to be spreaders, no wonder the cases are skyrocketing. If the situation is similarly bad in France, I am not surprised there are budget cuts and tightened security measures that prevent things like GP from happening.

 

[ancientpeas]

That's the most ridiculous scurrilous comeback I've ever seen on this board.

I can respect people who are disappointed and even people who question shutdowns or even want to argue the science but I can not be on board with people who just seem to think we should sacrifice our old and sick so that young people don't have to be inconvenienced.

I have no interest in discussing this with you. You have opinions that I just can't address with even the appearance of politeness or civility. They are morally repugnant to me.

 

[Lechat]

Covid strikes all people old and young and it’s not a joke, I don’t understand those who don’t want to wear a mask because of freedom. Once they are on respiratory machine, there’s no freedom anymore.

 

[kan01]

No need to use this hyperbole on me. I asked a question in response to your claim that 'masks can be enforced', which you didn't answer. I am asking how you can make folk wear them if people decide to lie or if they really can't wear one. I myself don't know the answer. If people are obedient where you live, good for you. I am not so lucky it seems. Every time I am on public transport, at least one person has their nose out. In shopping galleries, I have seen staff -security and checkout clerks alike- with their noses out of their masks. If such people turn out to be spreaders, no wonder the cases are skyrocketing. If the situation is similarly bad in France, I am not surprised there are budget cuts and tightened security measures that prevent things like GP from happening.

Are you saying lockdowns are better than only mask wearing, or I don't know, I'm confused about the point you're trying to make.
Mask wearing is enforced in the same way a lockdown (or any other measure) is, by the government who punishes or threatens to punish people not following that specific rule.
You can't totally enforce lockdowns, for example, either because some people will break the rules no matter if it's masks or what have you, so I don't really see your point and why you keep asking me this.

Since this is a figure skating forum, I tried to keep my observations mainly about how these extreme (IMO) measures, like canceling this season's events, affect the skaters.
But anyway, I'm glad some skaters are still going to get to compete. Very glad for Young You.

 

[Joekaz]

That's the most ridiculous scurrilous comeback I've ever seen on this board.

I can respect people who are disappointed and even people who question shutdowns or even want to argue the science but I can not be on board with people who just seem to think we should sacrifice our old and sick so that young people don't have to be inconvenienced.

I have no interest in discussing this with you. You have opinions that I just can't address with even the appearance of politeness or civility. They are morally repugnant to me.

The fact that you think the loss of jobs, careers, and homes, with the resultant rise in divorces and suicides from the economic pressue is a mere inconvenience shows all I need to know about your morals, or lack thereof to be more accurate.

 

[zanadude]

Enough is enough. Either move everything to Japan somehow or just shut it all down for the season.

 

[rain]

And then we have Sweden, and I think also Belarus.
People can say Sweden has little population or whatever, but percentages are per population number there and in any part of the world.

Sweden is not a success story.

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-monday-edition-1.5767947/swedish-virologist-says-her-country-s-covid-19-strategy-has-failed-but-nobody-will-admit-it-1.5767967

 

[zanadude]

I find it ridiculous to think that governments do not want these events to happen. They are big money makers (taxes from tickets, hotel rooms, travel) and what most governments care most about is making money.

What sort of money is Skate America going to make with an empty arena?

 

[Joekaz]

Enough is enough. Either move everything to Japan somehow or just shut it all down for the season.

All skating competitions should be permanently moved to Japan anyway. Lol

 

[Winnie_20]

All skating competitions should be permanently moved to Japan anyway. Lol

I think all those fan-cam-loving Japanese FS fans might disagree with you.
That, and the fact that for a foreigner (and even Japanese) it’s nearly impossible to get a ticket to a competition in Japan.

 

[karne]

In July, both Melbourne and the UK had over 750 cases in a day.

Melbourne shut down completely immediately. UK did not.

Melbourne logged 2 cases today. The UK logged 2239.

But sure. Tell me all about how lockdowns and mask mandates don't work. Put up or shut up.

 

[kan01]

The effects of this whole lockdown approach is already making victims, but it’s not felt by privileged people who can afford to be all for lockdowns and canceling sport for entire seasons. I could be piling examples, and arguments, and links to prove my point (like people wishing figure skating gets canceled this season do), but I don’t have the time. Again, the ones who are lucky to afford lockdowns, and cancellations, and who say masks and non-extreme sanitary measures are not enough won’t be the ones suffering the consequences of the destruction of people’s livelihoods and dreams. As I said before, it’s all black and white, lockdown and cancel and shut up so to speak. No in between like allowing things like skating events to go on with masks and other sensible measures in place (as an example, since we’re on a FS board).

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

In July, both Melbourne and the UK had over 750 cases in a day.

Melbourne shut down completely immediately. UK did not.

Melbourne logged 2 cases today. The UK logged 2239.

But sure. Tell me all about how lockdowns and mask mandates don't work. Put up or shut up.

I don't know where you got your figures from (was it a typing mistake?), but yesterday the UK had about 10 times the number of cases you stated, at 21,331. There were also 241 deaths, which was the highest there has been since June.

To be honest, I don't think it is a fair comparison, as the UK has a far larger population than Melbourne.

However, by sheer coincidence, an hour after reading your post, I read a very interesting article comparing Melbourne and Southern Ireland. In this comparison, the populations ARE the same. And the conclusions are the same as your's:

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2020/1020/1172828-australia-virus/

Although it doesn't state it in that story, the figures for yesterday were 1,269 cases and 13 deaths:

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1020/1172817-nphet-briefing/

Just as a bit of background. Southern Ireland is using a 5-tier system for their restrictions, where Tier 5 is a full lockdown. Two weeks ago, Dublin and Donegal were on Tier 3, and the rest of the country was on Tier 2. The medical people saw the number of cases were getting out of control, and advised the government to immediately go striaght to Tier 5. But the government rejected this, and instead put the whole country to Tier 3. Cases continued to rocket. So on Monday, the government announced that the whole country would go to Tier 5 from today.

Incidentally, here in Northern Ireland, we had 913 new cases and 3 deaths yesterday:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54612567

When you look at it in terms of cases per 100,000 (which seems to be the standard way of doing comparisons, as it eliminates differences in population size), we have a LOT more cases than the South.

The whole of NI has been back in lockdown since Friday evening. However, this lockdown is very watered down compared to what we had earlier in the year. But, with the South going back into a full lockdown today, I fully expect our government to decide to follow suit when they next meet.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Flagstaff]

What sort of money is Skate America going to make with an empty arena?

TV rights?

(...)(like people wishing figure skating gets canceled this season do) (...)

To me it doesn't seem that people wish the season to be canceled but more that they fear it will be. Not being surprised competitions are canceled one after the other doesn't mean it makes people happy.

As I said before, it’s all black and white, lockdown and cancel and shut up so to speak. No in between like allowing things like skating events to go on with masks and other sensible measures in place (as an example, since we’re on a FS board).

Competitions are being canceled because masks and sensible measures are sometimes not enough to provide safety for athletes and workers. I bet you haven't lost anyone to C0vid. And not all of the ones who lost their life had underlying conditions. Some were young healthy athletes. I'd rather not see skaters be so sick they career'd be over. And that, although canceled competitions make me lose half of my usual season income. I'm already on the verge of bankruptcy, and for the record, not a wealthy priviledged person leading a sheltered life. Simply, I'd rather not kill anyone nor catch this crud and be too sick to work, which would lead to bankruptcy too. Better ruined than dead.