GS Book Club, Nov. 2015: The Color Purple
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I finished my quarter of the book, and CoC is over.
What do we do now?
I have never done a book discussion group.
I last read this book in the 1980's before it had a long preface by the author, wherein she says, the book is about God. Apparently, a fan disagreed with her on this.
:hopelessness:
But-does your copy have the preface?
And do you think the book is about God?
Also, the first quarter of the book rather dovetails with the Kori Ade tweet thread, I think...
What do we do now?
I have never done a book discussion group.
I last read this book in the 1980's before it had a long preface by the author, wherein she says, the book is about God. Apparently, a fan disagreed with her on this.
:hopelessness:
But-does your copy have the preface?
And do you think the book is about God?
Also, the first quarter of the book rather dovetails with the Kori Ade tweet thread, I think...
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My copy doesn't have the preface.
In the first quarter of the book, I don't think it's about God. Celie addresses her thoughts to "Dear God," it's true. But in the story so far, what that says to me is that Celie literally doesn't have anyone else to talk to about the confusion, terror and sorrow in her life, so she talks to God. She has Nettie, but Nettie is her beloved little sister and Celie has always tried to protect her. So I don't see that Celie would talk to Nettie about these things. Also, I believe Celie's daddy warned her to tell "nobody but God" about what he did (and he probably implies also, what she did, introducing shame).
IMHO, it would be interesting and fruitful to keep the discussion on the preface for later, when we've read the last quarter of the book, for a more complete perspective. That's only my opinion! This review quotes 3 paragraphs from the preface. https://bkclubcare.wordpress.com/2008/05/23/the-color-purple/
But, I would like to hear everyone else's thoughts about Doris' question,
In the first quarter of the book, I don't think it's about God. Celie addresses her thoughts to "Dear God," it's true. But in the story so far, what that says to me is that Celie literally doesn't have anyone else to talk to about the confusion, terror and sorrow in her life, so she talks to God. She has Nettie, but Nettie is her beloved little sister and Celie has always tried to protect her. So I don't see that Celie would talk to Nettie about these things. Also, I believe Celie's daddy warned her to tell "nobody but God" about what he did (and he probably implies also, what she did, introducing shame).
IMHO, it would be interesting and fruitful to keep the discussion on the preface for later, when we've read the last quarter of the book, for a more complete perspective. That's only my opinion! This review quotes 3 paragraphs from the preface. https://bkclubcare.wordpress.com/2008/05/23/the-color-purple/
But, I would like to hear everyone else's thoughts about Doris' question,
at this point in our reading. About Kori Ade's tweet ... yes, I think this book does dovetail with that discussion. Serendipity! Celie's been told she is ugly and worthless, but what do others see in her that is beautiful?
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What are your feelings toward Celie? Do you like, dislike, or pity her? Do you want to scream at her? Why or why not?
At the beginning of an early chapter (in my copy, page 14), Celie sees a little girl she immediately believes is her daughter. Celie says:
At the beginning of an early chapter (in my copy, page 14), Celie sees a little girl she immediately believes is her daughter. Celie says:
What do these sentences speak to you of, especially the second? What does Celie mean by "more us than us is ourself," if you relate it to Celie's experiences of life so far?
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I think Celie is naive and immature for her age, which unfortunately is the product of the people who raised (or rather NOT raised) her.
I mean her father basically, let's be frank, raped her. And, essentially so does Mr. _____. But because she is told that she is doing "what she is supposed to do." It doesn't occur to her that it is rape.
It's clear that Celie is seen as property. She's the housemaid, the person who raises Mr. _____'s kids. But she's never encouraged to be valued as a human being.
I think as harsh as Shug Avery was at first, I think she should be given credit for exposing Celie that she is a woman who is entitled to pleasure. I think that's why Celie is so fascinated by Shug. She doesn't mince words, she speaks her mind. She has a career as a singer. She doesn't have any qualms about getting what she wants. I think perhaps Mr. ______'s dad reaction to her is partially because Shug isn't some submissive woman.
To answer the question if the book is about God? Maybe if you think of it as a story of how faith and belief plays in one's life. Or how God shows up to this group of people? I thie Celine, has a very basic view point of God as this being up above. I don't think she doesn't have huge expectations of what God should be.
I'll just throw this out...I wonder if Shug Avery is supposed to represent God to Celie? Celie worships her so much as a human being, equal to how some people worship gods...
I mean her father basically, let's be frank, raped her. And, essentially so does Mr. _____. But because she is told that she is doing "what she is supposed to do." It doesn't occur to her that it is rape.
It's clear that Celie is seen as property. She's the housemaid, the person who raises Mr. _____'s kids. But she's never encouraged to be valued as a human being.
I think as harsh as Shug Avery was at first, I think she should be given credit for exposing Celie that she is a woman who is entitled to pleasure. I think that's why Celie is so fascinated by Shug. She doesn't mince words, she speaks her mind. She has a career as a singer. She doesn't have any qualms about getting what she wants. I think perhaps Mr. ______'s dad reaction to her is partially because Shug isn't some submissive woman.
To answer the question if the book is about God? Maybe if you think of it as a story of how faith and belief plays in one's life. Or how God shows up to this group of people? I thie Celine, has a very basic view point of God as this being up above. I don't think she doesn't have huge expectations of what God should be.
I'll just throw this out...I wonder if Shug Avery is supposed to represent God to Celie? Celie worships her so much as a human being, equal to how some people worship gods...
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Celie in the first quarter of the book seems a classic physically and sexually abused child, grown up.
She fades into the background whenever possible.
She has low self esteem. We hear she Olivia and Nettie all look alike. But if Nettie is supposed to be attractive, then how should we see Celie? Is Pa lying when he says she is ugly? But it is clear Celie herself feels ugly.
She concentrate on surviving to the exclusion of all else.
Even basic neglect of a child can cripple the adult:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/somatic-psychology/201102/child-neglect-and-adult-ptsd
Couple that with physical beatings and child rape.
I see Celie as a PTSD victim, more than anything else.
Her insistence on surviving, both physically and mentally, impresses me.
The other thing that stands out to me is:
Of all the vile things done to people in this book, the only thing so far that results in a jail term is Sofia slapping the sheriff.
I am sad to say, that this seems believable to me. People behave like if you ignore something, it never happened.
She fades into the background whenever possible.
She has low self esteem. We hear she Olivia and Nettie all look alike. But if Nettie is supposed to be attractive, then how should we see Celie? Is Pa lying when he says she is ugly? But it is clear Celie herself feels ugly.
She concentrate on surviving to the exclusion of all else.
Even basic neglect of a child can cripple the adult:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/somatic-psychology/201102/child-neglect-and-adult-ptsd
Couple that with physical beatings and child rape.
I see Celie as a PTSD victim, more than anything else.
Her insistence on surviving, both physically and mentally, impresses me.
The other thing that stands out to me is:
Of all the vile things done to people in this book, the only thing so far that results in a jail term is Sofia slapping the sheriff.
I am sad to say, that this seems believable to me. People behave like if you ignore something, it never happened.
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What an interesting thought. What finally occurs to me (I've been thinking about your question for awhile) ... is that Shug does whatever she wants, says whatever she wants, is fully self-actualized as a woman. That is 180 degrees from everything Celie has ever been or imagined that she could be or might be. So in a way, Shug is an ideal, someone Celie is in awe of, wishes she could be like, worships. Now that Shug becomes real to her, a tiny seed has been planted of something Celie could aspire to be.
Another question: When Harpo asks Celie what she thinks Harpo ought to do about his problem with Sophia, Celie says, "Beat her." Why?
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Done! 
Skylark, for the sake of consistency, can you tell me the last line of the first quarter so we can all be on the same page as far as discussion. There might be small variations on what a quarter of the book means.
And then when do want to have the next deadline?
Skylark, for the sake of consistency, can you tell me the last line of the first quarter so we can all be on the same page as far as discussion. There might be small variations on what a quarter of the book means.
And then when do want to have the next deadline?
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I just noticed this thread yesterday and would love to join in! I didn't realize the book club had taken off as I've been a bit of a warm weather GS neglector :shame:
I can put my hands on a copy and catch up quickly, so I'll follow along until I'm able to jump in.
Happy reading!
I can put my hands on a copy and catch up quickly, so I'll follow along until I'm able to jump in.
Happy reading!
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Done!
Skylark, for the sake of consistency, can you tell me the last line of the first quarter so we can all be on the same page as far as discussion. There might be small variations on what a quarter of the book means.
And then when do want to have the next deadline?
And we need the last line of the second quarter, particularly so to match up those whose copies have the long Preface and those who don't
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Done!
Skylark, for the sake of consistency, can you tell me the last line of the first quarter so we can all be on the same page as far as discussion. There might be small variations on what a quarter of the book means.
And then when do want to have the next deadline?
Last line of the first quarter: He don't answer. He keep working, doing every thing with Swain.
Wasn't the plan to read one quarter every two weeks? If so, that would mean we begin reading the second quarter on Monday, Nov. 16 and begin discussing it Saturday, Nov. 21.
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Welcome, desertskates! I hope you'll jump in any time.
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I think that Celie does all the cooking, the cleaning, the caring for the children so well that she begins slowly to use her competence, skill and good nature as a pathway to valuing herself as a human being. But does someone else have to value her first? If so, who?
Is Celie obedient because she's passive and fearful, or is it more than that, do you think?
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I guess this is related to my question about Celie's reaction to seeing Olivia for the first time. She immediately believes the child to be her daughter, because she looks like Celie and her Pa. Like more us than us is ourself.
I see this as a function of being loved. The little girl is radiant in the way a child who's cherished is radiant. And any child or any adult who is being her true self is also radiant, from the inside out. So Olivia is more like her true inner self than either Celie or her Pa is. Celie, we know, has been beaten, raped, abandoned emotionally by her mother. So she's fearful and hurt and damaged. This makes me wonder about Celie's Daddy, or Pa, as well. What's happened to him to cause him to act as he does? Not that it's an excuse ... but if Celie includes her Daddy in that thought ... Like more us than us is ourself ...
Maybe Celie's gift is that she's able to see more of the true human being underneath.
Actually maybe this is a case for thinking the book is about "God?"
Many times in the New Testament, Jesus tells his disciples that only children can get into heaven and that to get to heaven, one must think like a child. Children often freely accept parents love and have faith in them. Likewise Jesus is asking the disciples to freely accept God's grace through him.
That child, in essence, gets to truly be herself, because she is free to accept the love of her her adopted parents. Celie, on the other hand, is raised from the get go that she hasn't "earned love" because she's either ugly or hasn't done enough. But yet, she is still a child in some ways, where she seems open to greater things than what she has now. I think the fact she sees Olivia the way she does (rather than as a child of rape) is a great indicator of that.
So I agree with you skylark that she can see humanity.
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Done!
Skylark, for the sake of consistency, can you tell me the last line of the first quarter so we can all be on the same page as far as discussion. There might be small variations on what a quarter of the book means.
And then when do want to have the next deadline?
Thank you, skylark
