Hope Elizaveta competes in the Olympic Team event | Golden Skate

Hope Elizaveta competes in the Olympic Team event

RatedPG

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 21, 2018
Country
Canada
I love Elizaveta. I hope the Russian Olympic committee would send her in the Russian Olympic team competition
Right. Because a decision to put Elizaveta in the team event so she can get an Olympic gold medal over Anna and Sasha who have been top figure skaters for Russia over the past four years, would be so fair. Elizaveta has had a long career and she failed to make the team by placing 7th at Nationals. Anna and Sasha have made so many sacrifices to realize their Olympic dream. This is their chance to rightfully earn an Olympic gold medal and they earned the shot to make it a reality by placing in the top 3 at Nationals consistently over the past three years. Stop suggesting unfairness in this Sport of figure skating.
 

Mista Ekko

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Right. Because a decision to put Elizaveta in the team event so she can get an Olympic gold medal over Anna and Sasha who have been top figure skaters for Russia over the past four years, would be so fair. Elizaveta has had a long career and she failed to make the team by placing 7th at Nationals. Anna and Sasha have made so many sacrifices to realize their Olympic dream. This is their chance to rightfully earn an Olympic gold medal and they earned the shot to make it a reality by placing in the top 3 at Nationals consistently over the past three years. Stop suggesting unfairness in this Sport of figure skating.

But everything you mentioned is just as insignificant

What matters when assigning skaters to the team event is who can reliably rack up the most points
for the team, taking into account the limitations of splitting options and relatable strength of different disciplines,
While also taking into factor the proximity of the team event to some of the later ones, Particularly for medal hopefuls.

If for example Valieva couldn't compete, And there was more of a danger (which there doesn't seem to be right now)
of Russia losing points in the SP, One could argue fairly that Tuk has been scoring 2nd highest internationally all season long
with her 3A and is the best choice for the task over the other two options, And it wouldn't matter how many top 3s they made,
All that in fairness to the rest of Team Russia, Who are expecting the best choices are being made to secure them all the Gold
 
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RatedPG

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 21, 2018
Country
Canada
But everything you mentioned is just as insignificant

What matters when assigning skaters to the team event is who can reliably rack up the most points
for the team, taking into account the limitations of splitting options and relatable strength of different disciplines,
While also taking into factor the proximity of the team event to some of the later ones, Particularly for medal hopefuls.

If for example Valieva couldn't compete, And there was more of a danger (which there doesn't seem to be right now)
of Russia losing points in the SP, One could argue fairly that Tuk has been scoring 2nd highest internationally all season long
with her 3A and is the best choice for the task over the other two options, And it wouldn't matter how many top 3s they made,
All that in fairness to the rest of Team Russia, Who are expecting the best choices are being made to secure them all the Gold
I usually don’t engage in hypothetical conversations. Because there can be a lot of what if scenarios. To me, Elizaveta should only be part of the team event, if two of the top three ladies are injured or the virus prevents these girls from competing. Which, I hope doesn’t happen. Only then, we can contemplate adding her to the Team event.

But, I’ll entertain this one scenario where Valieva can’t compete. In this hypothetical scenario, even then, Anna S, should still do the short program because she hasn’t lost to Elizaveta in any competition these two have met. Furthermore, she has also beaten Elizaveta handily in both segments: the SP and LP in the duration of the last year. If you look at only the short program, at last three competitions these two have entered, for SP only, you get:

Worlds SP - 81.00 (1st) versus 78.86 (3rd)
WTT - 81.07 (1st) versus 80.35 (2nd)
Russian Nationals - 81.46 (2nd) versus 71.28 (7th)

Anna S. has earned it. Won all three times over Elizaveta in the past year. She may not have a triple axel, but her triple triple combo has been all that is required to beat Elizaveta in just the short program segment. With no Valieva, there is no actual valid arguement to add Elizaveta to the team barring injury or sickness of Anna S. But, even then, Anna S being the warrior she is, with a broken foot or flu/virus, will do everything she can to fulfil the Olympic dream like she did in Russian Nationals back in 2020.

Please put yourself in Anna’s shoes and imagine a scenario where someone is chosen over you for the chance at Olympic Gold, yet, this opponent of yours has never beaten you in a competition. Now imagine watching that person selected to do the short program over you, despite, your unbeaten streak against this person the last three times you faced this athlete. That is what would be considered an unfair scenario. Unfairness in the sense that a decision was made based on feelings over facts and results.
 

Mista Ekko

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
I usually don’t engage in hypothetical conversations. Because there can be a lot of what if scenarios. To me, Elizaveta should only be part of the team event, if two of the top three ladies are injured or the virus prevents these girls from competing. Which, I hope doesn’t happen. Only then, we can contemplate adding her to the Team event.

But, I’ll entertain this one scenario where Valieva can’t compete. In this hypothetical scenario, even then, Anna S, should still do the short program because she hasn’t lost to Elizaveta in any competition these two have met. Furthermore, she has also beaten Elizaveta handily in both segments: the SP and LP in the duration of the last year. If you look at only the short program, at last three competitions these two have entered, for SP only, you get:

Worlds SP - 81.00 (1st) versus 78.86 (3rd)
WTT - 81.07 (1st) versus 80.35 (2nd)
Russian Nationals - 81.46 (2nd) versus 71.28 (7th)

Anna S. has earned it. Won all three times over Elizaveta in the past year. She may not have a triple axel, but her triple triple combo has been all that is required to beat Elizaveta in just the short program segment. With no Valieva, there is no actual valid arguement to add Elizaveta to the team barring injury or sickness of Anna S. But, even then, Anna S being the warrior she is, with a broken foot or flu/virus, will do everything she can to fulfil the Olympic dream like she did in Russian Nationals back in 2020.

Please put yourself in Anna’s shoes and imagine a scenario where someone is chosen over you for the chance at Olympic Gold, yet, this opponent of yours has never beaten you in a competition. Now imagine watching that person selected to do the short program over you, despite, your unbeaten streak against this person the last three times you faced this athlete. That is what would be considered an unfair scenario. Unfairness in the sense that a decision was made based on feelings over facts and results.

Yeah but all of that still doesn't matter,

At this moment, Not last year, Not for the past 4 years, Elizaveta is more competitive in the SP than Anna.

Anyways, The point I was trying to make is far less subjective than these two, I'm saying that if a team
wants to win there's no point in treating the Team event as a lifetime achievement award or a popularity
contest, If there is a potential danger to lose points you go with your best bet, Otherwise you potentially fail everybody,
And that is not any kind of definition of the word fairness

You could also see by looking at earlier posts that I don't believe, Both politically and as a necessity, That Elizaveta
will be named to the Team event over anybody, But again, That's beside my point as far as team event strategy.
 
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Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
But everything you mentioned is just as insignificant

What matters when assigning skaters to the team event is who can reliably rack up the most points
for the team, taking into account the limitations of splitting options and relatable strength of different disciplines,
While also taking into factor the proximity of the team event to some of the later ones, Particularly for medal hopefuls.

If for example Valieva couldn't compete, And there was more of a danger (which there doesn't seem to be right now)
of Russia losing points in the SP, One could argue fairly that Tuk has been scoring 2nd highest internationally all season long
with her 3A and is the best choice for the task over the other two options, And it wouldn't matter how many top 3s they made,
All that in fairness to the rest of Team Russia, Who are expecting the best choices are being made to secure them all the Gold

Moot point about whether Tuktamysheva should get the SP team event over Shcherbakova because as of right now unless someone gets injured or sick Tuktamysheva is not going to the Olympics so she is not an option for the team event.
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
I love Elizaveta. I hope the Russian Olympic committee would send her in the Russian Olympic team competition
Is this even possible? I thought the team was selected from members of the current team. Can they add a 4th skater just for the team event?
 

Mista Ekko

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Moot point about whether Tuktamysheva should get the SP team event over Shcherbakova because as of right now unless someone gets injured or sick Tuktamysheva is not going to the Olympics so she is not an option for the team event.

Liza and Anna were my example, Not my point.

My point was regrading the term Fairness, And more specifically about Team event selection fairness,
I felt the poster was missing the mark
 

Mista Ekko

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Is this even possible? I thought the team was selected from members of the current team. Can they add a 4th skater just for the team event?

Nope, Team event participates are only selected from the olympic team, Boyang Jin for example is probably
very mad about that as now he might have to skate 4 programs in a week ;)
 

bouncy

☀️
On the Ice
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Please put yourself in Anna’s shoes and imagine a scenario where someone is chosen over you for the chance at Olympic Gold, yet, this opponent of yours has never beaten you in a competition. Now imagine watching that person selected to do the short program over you, despite, your unbeaten streak against this person the last three times you faced this athlete. That is what would be considered an unfair scenario. Unfairness in the sense that a decision was made based on feelings over facts and results.
Anna was never beaten because she's been one of the favorites of RusFed which always gives her a pass on her poor techniques. I wish Liza could represent another country that appreciates her talents. But unfortunately there's no what-ifs.
 

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Anna was never beaten because she's been one of the favorites of RusFed which always gives her a pass on her poor techniques. I wish Liza could represent another country that appreciates her talents. But unfortunately there's no what-ifs.

GP China 2019 Shcherbakova received calls on everything and she still beat Tuktamysheva because her BV gives her the room for some errors. Tuktamysheva is doing a layout that lost to both Bradie Tennell and Satoko Miyahara, neither of which has triple axels or quads.
 

RatedPG

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 21, 2018
Country
Canada
Yeah but all of that still doesn't matter,

At this moment, Not last year, Not for the past 4 years, Elizaveta is more competitive in the SP than Anna
Not true. Remember, Anna won over Elizaveta at Russian Nationals two weeks ago. That is your “at this moment” as it is their last competition. I even posted the score. Anna was a full ten points ahead of Elizaveta. 81 is higher than 71. Anna proved to be solid with her 3Lz 3Lo. Elizaveta fell on her 3A and didn’t do a triple triple combo. Also, in the free skate, I was further stunned that she didn’t even try to make a case with no 3Lz 3T. Where did this combo go? So, actually, at this moment, Elizaveta must not have a consistent triple triple. A lack of triple triple would not fare well against Sakamoto or Higuchi. So, Anna is the one who would be picked in this hypothetical situation. Which, we shouldn’t even talk about as most likely it will be Kamila, anyways. But, even in this hypothetical situation, there is no valid case to justify Elizaveta over Anna. Case closed 🤪
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
GP China 2019 Shcherbakova received calls on everything and she still beat Tuktamysheva because her BV gives her the room for some errors. Tuktamysheva is doing a layout that lost to both Bradie Tennell and Satoko Miyahara, neither of which has triple axels or quads.
:drama: Really......When did Bradie beat Tuk?
 

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
:drama: Really......When did Bradie beat Tuk?

GP 2019 at Skate America and Tuktamysheva is doing the same BV layout this season. My preach about Tuktamysheva for years has been her terrible layouts. This same layout lost to 2 skaters who didn't have triple axels or quads - there will be skaters attempting those elements at the Olympics
 

Mista Ekko

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Not true. Remember, Anna won over Elizaveta at Russian Nationals two weeks ago. That is your “at this moment” as it is their last competition. I even posted the score. Anna was a full ten points ahead of Elizaveta. 81 is higher than 71. Anna proved to be solid with her 3Lz 3Lo. Elizaveta fell on her 3A and didn’t do a triple triple combo. Also, in the free skate, I was further stunned that she didn’t even try to make a case with no 3Lz 3T. Where did this combo go? So, actually, at this moment, Elizaveta must not have a consistent triple triple. A lack of triple triple would not fare well against Sakamoto or Higuchi. So, Anna is the one who would be picked in this hypothetical situation. Which, we shouldn’t even talk about as most likely it will be Kamila, anyways. But, even in this hypothetical situation, there is no valid case to justify Elizaveta over Anna. Case closed 🤪

I don't care about Russian Nationals judging, And Elizaveta botched her SP so naturally she was lower,
Plus they were obviously strategically not assigned the same events during the past few months

These are Elizaveta's SP results from the recent GP and challenger circuit:
80.10
81.24
81.53

These are Anna's SP results from the recent GP and Challenger circuit:
77.94
71.73
74.76

One of those is consistently high and out of reach of any other lady in the field,
The other one could potentially lose a point to a Japanese lady, I would say maybe even a strong performance by an
American, But I don't really think that's happening right now

I'll remind you again, This isn't the point I was trying to make, And Russia are not currently in trouble of missing Gold
over a point or two (Although if Men and Ice dance turn out to be disappointments who knows...)

All I was replying to was this:

Right. Because a decision to put Elizaveta in the team event so she can get an Olympic gold medal over Anna and Sasha who have been top figure skaters for Russia over the past four years, would be so fair. Elizaveta has had a long career and she failed to make the team by placing 7th at Nationals. Anna and Sasha have made so many sacrifices to realize their Olympic dream. This is their chance to rightfully earn an Olympic gold medal and they earned the shot to make it a reality by placing in the top 3 at Nationals consistently over the past three years. Stop suggesting unfairness in this Sport of figure skating.

I disagree that anyone "Earns" an Olympic Gold medal or the right to be selected to a spot in the Team Event by that criteria, And I find your use of the term "Fairness" misguided (And I also disagree that fairness is being practiced regularly in this sport anyways, But that's a different story).

It wouldn't be unfair to choose your best bet at the highest score
Hypothetically, A lot of people could squeeze in between an 81 and an 75

Now Russia are in a situation where they could play around with their choices and still come out on top, And they won't realistically
rise or fall over wether they get 10 or 9 points in the Ladies SP, What I'm saying is, In a situation where that somehow
might happen, And you put Shcherbakova in there and she scores below Wakaba, When you know you had a pretty
reliable 80+ score from Liza (Nationals notwithstanding) And that point made a difference in a medal colour, Would YOU be
the one to face the rest of the team who just got knocked off a podium spot cause you felt like you had it in the bag?

For example, 4 years ago Weaver and Poje could've been on that Gold medal team in hindsight, But as the selection has to be done pre competition, The Canadian committee played it safe and didn't use their second switch and Virture and Moir did both events,
So W\P were left out which feels so unfair , But on the other hand, What if the competition had gone a little differently in other disciplines and W\P bringing in 8 or 9 points instead of 10 meant finishing with Silver? is that Fair?
 
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wakuwaku

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 20, 2021
All these arguments.. just relax, guys ) With Covid test results trend nowadays - it's highly likely for Liza to go to OG. I would assess it like 9 to 10 probability that at least one of three main contenders can be positive during crucial time. (Un)fortunately for many people here and there, of course.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
Russia
Some people are talking in this thread like the scores are fair, LOL. Shcherbakova has been massively overscored. Many people felt Tuktamysheva outskated her at Nationals.

Although either way, neither of them should be in the Team event. That clearly belongs to Kamila and Trusova (or just Kamila).
 
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