How to get ankles crossed in off-ice jumps?

[csg]

I'm having a hard time getting my ankles crossed in my off-ice jumps and I just can't figure out what to do. I'm doing rotation jumps and I'm working on getting 1 1/2 rotations (I'm at 1 1/4 right now! So close!), but my legs stay next to each other. My coach has me doing backspins on ice and for off-ice training I'm doing single rotation jumps and landing in the loop position and holding it. The problem with landing in the loop position though is that it's making my free leg come up way too soon when I try to jump normally and I end up not being able to get past one rotation cause my leg is flying around. When I try to kind of force my ankles to cross, it throws me entirely off my jump. I either fall sideways, my free leg just hangs out in front of the other one, or my leg comes up too soon anyway. I hurt myself pretty good a couple weeks ago trying to make my ankles cross because they didn't uncross when I landed and I came down sideways on my foot.

I know I must be doing something wrong because I watch other skaters doing off-ice jumps and it looks so easy and natural like the ankles are just supposed to cross if you're jumping right. Is that the case? Are there any exercises I can do to help? I'm doing drills where you jump up and simulate the in-air position (ankles crossed, wrists crossed at chest) and then land back down on two feet. I also do the drill where you jump up and keep your upper body and shoulders straight while you twist your hips and feet to the side. Is there anything else I should be doing? Thanks in advance!

(Edited to say I added a video of me jumping as an example in response to a comment, so any feedback is much appreciated!)

 

[gliese]

I never really had this issue so I can't relate per se (my rotation position has always been extremely natural) but I've found the best way for my students is to get the legs into a position where if you were to just move them closer the position would be a perfect cross. Sort of like the position you see top skaters doing their doubles in because they are jumping high enough for triples and have to open up to only do two rotations. Once you have that down, crossing those legs will be super easy!

And video that first drill and the rotations. It's likely you're off axis somehow (usually happens when we focus more on rotation than technique) and need to fix that.

 

[csg]

I never really had this issue so I can't relate per se (my rotation position has always been extremely natural) but I've found the best way for my students is to get the legs into a position where if you were to just move them closer the position would be a perfect cross. Sort of like the position you see top skaters doing their doubles in because they are jumping high enough for triples and have to open up to only do two rotations. Once you have that down, crossing those legs will be super easy!

And video that first drill and the rotations. It's likely you're off axis somehow (usually happens when we focus more on rotation than technique) and need to fix that.

Thank you! Do you maybe have a video of a top skater doing a jump like that so I can see what the legs look like?

Seems pretty likely I'm off-axis somehow. I wouldn't doubt it. I don't have a recent video, but once my newest foot injury gets better I'll definitely get one filmed and see if maybe someone can see something I'm doing wrong.

 

[gliese]

Thank you! Do you maybe have a video of a top skater doing a jump like that so I can see what the legs look like?

Gracie Gold does a lot of doubles in her programs (both planned and unplanned seem to have good technique for her).

 

[csg]

Gracie Gold does a lot of doubles in her programs (both planned and unplanned seem to have good technique for her).

I looked at Gracie Gold, but all the programs I watched had her ankles pretty tight when she jumped. I did find this clip of Alena Kostornaia though, and was wondering if this is the kind of position you mean?

 

[csg]

And video that first drill and the rotations. It's likely you're off axis somehow (usually happens when we focus more on rotation than technique) and need to fix that.

Okay, I got a video of me jumping (updated with better arm motion) and trying to reach maximum rotation. I filmed it with my back to the camera so I could show the rotation of my hips and shoulders better to make sure it looked okay. Any advice is much appreciated!

 

[Elija]

I looked at Gracie Gold, but all the programs I watched had her ankles pretty tight when she jumped. I did find this clip of Alena Kostornaia though, and was wondering if this is the kind of position you mean?

I wouldn’t be trying to jump like that, Alena’s loose air position (at times looking like a leg wrap) is not doing her any favours in trying to get the triple axel back. I think it’s best to just keep working on trying to keep the legs tight and develop a strong technique or it’s so hard to change to longer you do it.

I just watched the video you posted and your right shoulder and arm look like they are whipping around too fast. So that side of your body is already ahead and you will be off axis. Try jumping up high before pulling in the arms and crossing the ankles so you don’t pull yourself off axis. I would also go back to just practicing half jumps and singles with an h position to get the air position right. Make sure the left hip is up and closed rather than open when you do it.

 

[csg]

I wouldn’t be trying to jump like that, Alena’s loose air position (at times looking like a leg wrap) is not doing her any favours in trying to get the triple axel back. I think it’s best to just keep working on trying to keep the legs tight and develop a strong technique or it’s so hard to change to longer you do it.

I just watched the video you posted and your right shoulder and arm look like they are whipping around too fast. So that side of your body is already ahead and you will be off axis. Try jumping up high before pulling in the arms and crossing the ankles so you don’t pull yourself off axis. I would also go back to just practicing half jumps and singles with an h position to get the air position right. Make sure the left hip is up and closed rather than open when you do it.

Thank you for the advice! I definitely see what you mean about my arm and shoulder coming in too fast. I'm gonna work on jumping up and swinging the arms through so it doesn't pull me off-axis. Makes sense why I travel to the side sometimes when I jump lol

(Edit: I uploaded a new video with me practicing swinging the arms through instead of whipping my right arm in really fast. The jump feels way better, but still I can't get my ankles to cross. I try and it throws me off-axis. I worked on some half jumps and single rotations with the h position and then when I tried to go past one rotation my leg still comes up like I'm doing a single and cuts it short. Is this just something that I have to keep actively trying to do until my body gets used to it? Should I keep trying to force my ankles to cross until it becomes muscle memory?)

 

[gliese]

There are lots of things that are not doing you any favors in that video.

For starters, your feet should be about shoulder width apart. Yours are right next to each other.

You are then waiting wayyyy too long to bend your knees. The max knee bend and counter rotation should both be achieved at the same time. In your case, you don't even begin to bend those knees until you've hit max counter rotation. This is possibly what Elija meant by your arms whipping around too fast.

You're also letting your arms come much lower than they should be. The fastest rotation is created when you have your arms out straight at a 90º angle from your body and then pull them in as close to your body as possible and as fast as possible. If I had to guess, this mistake is costing you about a quarter of rotation, maybe even more. That's a lot.

It looks like if you fixed those issues, your hips would be in the proper position to cross your ankles and at that point, if it's still not coming, you're gonna have to force it.

 

[gliese]

I looked at Gracie Gold, but all the programs I watched had her ankles pretty tight when she jumped. I did find this clip of Alena Kostornaia though, and was wondering if this is the kind of position you mean?

Nope, don't do that. What I'm referring to is almost an H position pulled a bit tighter with a bit of a straighter leg.

 

[csg]

There are lots of things that are not doing you any favors in that video.

For starters, your feet should be about shoulder width apart. Yours are right next to each other.

You are then waiting wayyyy too long to bend your knees. The max knee bend and counter rotation should both be achieved at the same time. In your case, you don't even begin to bend those knees until you've hit max counter rotation. This is possibly what Elija meant by your arms whipping around too fast.

You're also letting your arms come much lower than they should be. The fastest rotation is created when you have your arms out straight at a 90º angle from your body and then pull them in as close to your body as possible and as fast as possible. If I had to guess, this mistake is costing you about a quarter of rotation, maybe even more. That's a lot.

It looks like if you fixed those issues, your hips would be in the proper position to cross your ankles and at that point, if it's still not coming, you're gonna have to force it.

Thank you so much!! This is really helpful and I'm starting to gather the reason I'm not able to get my ankles crossed is because the jump isn't right. I'm gonna work on everything you pointed out. I'm excited to get it all fixed and see what wonders it does! (Also, I had originally uploaded a different video where my right arm pulled in way too fast so I was whipping around. That's what Elija was referring to, if you were confused.)

 

[csg]

Nope, don't do that. What I'm referring to is almost an H position pulled a bit tighter with a bit of a straighter leg.

Oh! I get what you mean now. Thanks!

 

[gliese]

(Also, I had originally uploaded a different video where my right arm pulled in way too fast so I was whipping around. That's what Elija was referring to, if you were confused.)

No I understand that, I just think you haven't completely fixed the mistake.