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I can accept Quacksel in an Aflac commercial, that is for sure, but on the ice.... not so much.
Just like Trixsel only makes me think of "Silly Rabbit, Trixels are for kids"
Ilia Malinin - Clean 4A
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I can accept Quacksel in an Aflac commercial, that is for sure, but on the ice.... not so much.
Just like Trixsel only makes me think of "Silly Rabbit, Trixels are for kids"
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I agree with most of the rest, I'm just gonna bring up talking points 4) and 1).
4) The only 4+4 I've seen other than Malinin is 4+eu+4. This is significantly easier than +4T and +4Lo, there is no comparison. I don't see 4+eu+4 as 4+4, instead I see as 4+1+4.
and
1) I don't think any skaters inherently "deserve" to be the first to land something. Whoever lands it first, deserves to land it imo. Take a look at 4Lo - many people say Kraznozhon deserved to land it first - I mean, he fully rotated it in competition with a step out, landed it in practice, had been trying it for much longer. Then Hanyu landed it first. For me, Hanyu deserved to land it first - because he landed it first. If Ilia lands 4A first, he deserves to land it first.
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I read some assessment that this feat is similar to Roger Bannister's breaking of the 4 Minute Mile Barrier.
Maybe so. This article from Harvard Business Review, written about the time of Bannister's passing, suggests that the barrier was a psychological one, rather than a physical one. If you buy into this viewpoint, the 4A should be easier for others to accomplish.
A quote from this article:
When Bannister broke the mark, even his most ardent rivals breathed a sigh of relief. At last, somebody did it! And once they saw it could be done, they did it too. Just 46 days Bannister’s feat, John Landy, an Australian runner, not only broke the barrier again, with a time of 3 minutes 58 seconds. Then, just a year later, three runners broke the four-minute barrier in a single race. Over the last half century, more than a thousand runners have conquered a barrier that had once been considered hopelessly out of reach.
Link to HBR article:
hbr.org
Maybe so. This article from Harvard Business Review, written about the time of Bannister's passing, suggests that the barrier was a psychological one, rather than a physical one. If you buy into this viewpoint, the 4A should be easier for others to accomplish.
A quote from this article:
When Bannister broke the mark, even his most ardent rivals breathed a sigh of relief. At last, somebody did it! And once they saw it could be done, they did it too. Just 46 days Bannister’s feat, John Landy, an Australian runner, not only broke the barrier again, with a time of 3 minutes 58 seconds. Then, just a year later, three runners broke the four-minute barrier in a single race. Over the last half century, more than a thousand runners have conquered a barrier that had once been considered hopelessly out of reach.
Link to HBR article:
What Breaking the 4-Minute Mile Taught Us About the Limits of Conventional Thinking
The sad news of the passing of Roger Bannister, the first human being to run a four-minute mile, is an opportunity to think about his legacy — not just as one of the great athletes of the past century, but as an innovator, a change agent, and an icon of success. As it turns out, when he broke...
hbr.org
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Each to their own, I always find it curious when people just can't acknowledge a skater's historic accomplishment on its own terms and always have to harp on the ethereal "other things" that they need to "work on," as if not having the latter makes it any less of an objectively unprecedented feat--or as if the skater isn't already working at full throttle to make an improvement on those areas. Stratifying different elements of skating--be it in competition or otherwise--does not seem like a cut-and-dried thing.
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I don't see any of that here on GS. Maybe I read the wrong threads... If you're talking about those who say they don't see Malinin as a complete skater yet, I'd say this is a pretty normal thing to say of all very young skaters, especially if they make a name as jumping prodigies. Trusova got the same worry from fans too, when she started jumping quad combos. From what I see here, everyone pretty much congratulated Malinin, so I don't see any 'not acknowledging'.
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I'll never find it again because it was months ago, but I saw someone post a screen shot of a post of Goebel's stating that he should now be known as the quadfather, Nathan is the reigning quad king, and Ilia is quad king ascending. I forget the exact phrasing he used for Ilia, but the phrasing was to that effect.
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Oh, I was referring to comments outside GS, those bearing a striking resemblance to the "negative comments" quoted/paraphrased in a previous post in this thread.
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Goodbye to all his competitors....
Their situations are different Yuzuru has had it seems like a lot of injuries before he ever started on the quad axel, Ilia is working on it and stabilizing it healthy and is what 10 years younger? I know 27 (Yuzuru's age) isn't old by normal standards but by figure skating standards for singles skaters that is old.
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The first thing that I thought of was the Eteri Tutberidze girls. quadding it up one after another. No one thought that a lady could possibly ever do a quad, until one did. Then suddenly everybody was doing it.
I do not think so because when I look at Ilia jumps it looks like he uses a more of finessed take off than a pure power one, and once he launches he seems to float in the air forever before he lands and in most cases he comes out with as much speed as he goes into them. I have never seen a skater that flies like this. Almost everybody who has see him is in awe of how good he is a such a young age. I agree that he needs to work on the entire package and that's what is going to happen this summer. I think he has a long career ahead and it is going to be one heck of ride.
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He apparently has good genes fro both parents. I have been cataloguing 2000 Sparkassen where both Ilia's parents competed. I had less recall of his dad, but can see a lot of similarities is technique from both parents.
Link to 2000-2001 Sparkassen (aka Bofrost, aka Nations Cup) - a really cool event btw...
REWATCH Grand Prix 6.0 System 1994-2002
2000-2001 Skate America - October 26–29, 2000 Colorado Springs, Colorado/USA – Broadmoor World Arena ISU results page | Wikipedia skaters with links in actual start order, others in approximate reverse order of finish Pairs Short Warm-Up Group 1 1 Mariana Kautz / Norman Jeschke GER 2...
Tatiana Malinina SP | FS
Roman Skorniakov SP | FS - waiting for this to be posted...
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I actually saw Illia's dad in 1999 and in 2001 both times at Worlds. There was a clip of her SP from Vancouver and it shows her husband/ Illia's Dad watching her from the boards. Not her greatest SP but, she looked absolutely beautiful and he's very handsome.He apparently has good genes fro both parents. I have been cataloguing 2000 Sparkassen where both Ilia's parents competed. I had less recall of his dad, but can see a lot of similarities is technique from both parents.
Link to 2000-2001 Sparkassen (aka Bofrost, aka Nations Cup) - a really cool event btw...
REWATCH Grand Prix 6.0 System 1994-2002
2000-2001 Skate America - October 26–29, 2000 Colorado Springs, Colorado/USA – Broadmoor World Arena ISU results page | Wikipedia skaters with links in actual start order, others in approximate reverse order of finish Pairs Short Warm-Up Group 1 1 Mariana Kautz / Norman Jeschke GER 2...www.goldenskate.com
Tatiana Malinina SP | FS
Roman Skorniakov SP | FS - waiting for this to be posted...
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Every once in a while when I jump into an Ilia thread, I feel the need for background on my Ilia bona fides, so skip the paragraph if you already know this:
I first saw Ilia when he was 14(?) skating as a junior in a cold rink in a summer comp. His jumps were lovely, his spins were not lovely, and he had a swagger even then. He caught my eye. (He was also a tiny blond kid in a biker jacket, mom and dad should have rethought that program. )
It's great that he is posting practice jumps. I'm not a jump person, but good for Ilia on the 4A.
I am faaaaaar more impressed that his spins are now tight, centered and fast, what an improvement! But I know that practice videos of spins are not going to get the oooohs and aaaah.
Ilia himself said in an IG Live (saw a fan's transcript, not the Live itself) it's just practice and it doesn't count until he lands it in a comp. His competitors have the total package, and he knows it. (Not the IG Live, my opinion
) He's smart enough to work on the total package.
And in the meantime keep posting the jump practice videos that keep people talking.
I first saw Ilia when he was 14(?) skating as a junior in a cold rink in a summer comp. His jumps were lovely, his spins were not lovely, and he had a swagger even then. He caught my eye. (He was also a tiny blond kid in a biker jacket, mom and dad should have rethought that program.
)It's great that he is posting practice jumps. I'm not a jump person, but good for Ilia on the 4A.
I am faaaaaar more impressed that his spins are now tight, centered and fast, what an improvement! But I know that practice videos of spins are not going to get the oooohs and aaaah.Ilia himself said in an IG Live (saw a fan's transcript, not the Live itself) it's just practice and it doesn't count until he lands it in a comp. His competitors have the total package, and he knows it. (Not the IG Live, my opinion
) He's smart enough to work on the total package.And in the meantime keep posting the jump practice videos that keep people talking.
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There are in fact insurmountable physical limitations to being able to land a quint jump. Something would have to change to actually make that possible. Different landing surface; different type of boots that can help propel skaters higher into the air, etc. It's physically impossible to revolve five full turns, unaided by lifting mechanisms, before touching the ice surface. In any case, I personally think quad axel is enough. Even four revolutions are difficult enough of a goal for many skaters to successfully surmount. We can barely see four revolutions with the naked eye. What is the point of even thinking about attempting five revolutions!? There are other advances to pursue, such as improving blade skills, and trying to meld the current quads and quad axel attempts with significant artistry.
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to someone like Malinin or Trusova who are amazing jumpers, doing it for the sake of doing it is worth it, and we actually have no idea whether or not a quint is physically possible yet. Trusova especially has always wanted records over medals and i believe said she wants to do a quint.
i think we will eventually see someone land one in practice but i don't think the sport will ever get to the point it will be seen in competition. doing it any more than that will be the limiting factor- quads will be the ceiling.
