James and Ciprès announce end of career

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FayD

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Some of the comments here are venting in a very dangerous and harmful territory. An adult man acted in a disgusting and inappropriate way towards a minor. It's not a mistake out of immaturity, it's a crime and he doesn't deserve any benefit of doubt, nor sympathy and understanding. The one who deserves sympathy is the victim and no one else.
 

readernick

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Agree that Morgan's action was not a "mistake" and at the same time it saddens me that this type of behaviour was condoned by the French federation. It does show how normalized this behavior is within sports, a Canadian pairs coach was just charged with sexual misconduct that goes back years. Until there are real consequences given, and a change of culture within figure skating this kind of behavior will continue.

At the same time, I don't see any moral obligation on Vanessa's part to speak out. A comment like, "I condemn all types of sexual abuse, " would do nothing to assist the victim of this crime or change the culture of figure skating. It would soley be a public relations move as such it wouldn't be genuine or meaningful. If she found out the truth about the situation at the same time the rest of the world did, (which is totally possible and even probable-- it is very easy to be mislead by people we trust) she could do nothing to mitigate the harm to the victim. People who condemn her are just jumping to conclusions when no evidence of wrong doing has been presented, and in the general misogynistic cultural common in figure skating blaming women for actions beyond their control. If it surfaces that Vanessa was involved in the coverup, I would agree that she deserves condemnation. However, no such evidence was ever presented, and Vanessa was never mentioned by the victim or in articles published about the issue. Given this, she deserves the benefit of doubt. I agree that the only person who deserves sympathy is the victim。
 

okokok1777

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Your view of what happened is apparently in part based upon your personal experiences. Unless you were there or unless you've spoken directly to the victim and to other people involved, you are making assumptions about exactly what happened. Just as everyone is who is speaking out without being in possession of all the facts.

As someone who fits the category, I feel like I should chime in.

I want to preface what I say with a universal disclaimer: I completely understand that this is an internet forum and most people here don't know who I am IRL. Because of this, I am in no way offended if people don't believe what I'm saying - everyone has the right to their thoughts and opinions. I just wanted to try and bring a bit of clarity.

I've been, for lack of a better word, involved in this specific case for over 15 months now (from a "trying to get SafeSport/the authorities to look into this" standpoint). Based on statements from people directly involved in this case and digital evidence, Vanessa has known about this incident since December of 2017. Other coaches and athletes based in Wesley Chapel and other southern-Florida rinks found out about it in December of 2017 to January of 2018. She's also been accused of actively defending Morgan & being complicit in the cover-up.

Do I think that Morgan's actions put Vanessa in an incredibly difficult position? Yes. However, if the allegations against Vanessa are true, then I think she needs to be held accountable as well.
 

ancientpeas

The Notorious SEW
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Guys.. my personal point of view aside can we please remember to not make things overly personal. Please do not taunt, mock or provoke other users.

One of the fundamental misunderstandings of childhood sexual abuse is that it rarely happens in isolation. A child being on the receiving end of sexual attention from adults is a taboo that once broken can never be taken back. Once a child is sexualized they can not be unsexualized. It is Pandora's box. So often it happens that someone who has been sexually abused as a very young child will be victimized again and again because once that line is crossed and a child has been groomed it is very difficult to go back to a previous state of innocence. A child who has been sexually abused is never the same again. It is the job of all adults to protect and care for vulnerable people and not turn a blind eye to what is going on around us because we are scared of the consequences or worried about the abuser. The abuser is an adult and does not need our protection. That is why we have courts. The child is, in fact, the vulnerable one in situation and too many people want to see the child's needs and the adults needs as equal. They, fundamentally, are not and they are not because the adult is always the person with the power in any given situation. For me, as person who has been in a position of trust with children (as a nanny when I was younger and as a scout leader) I know that if a child came to me with a claim my responsibility is to report it to the authorities. Any other action is negligent and abusive.

You can love someone and hate what they have done and still demand that they be held responsible for their actions. The more we enable abusers the more we slide down the slippery slope toward becoming abusive ourselves. In my case the person who abused me was severely mentally ill. The person who knew most of it was happening was not. Who is more culpable? The person who had the capacity to stop it and didn't or the person doing the abusing who had either no ability to stop (compulsion, delusion, trauma) or no willingness to stop (because they enjoyed being abusive)? Do we actually have to witness first hand the abuse before we act? Is that even enough for some people?

There are a lot of people who apparently failed to protect this young woman. There were not enough fail safes in place to prevent it from happening in the first place. Where is the code of conduct? Where are the rules about transparency?

I get that some of you can still enjoy J/C skating. I can not and I was a big fan and support of theirs. Especially of Vanessa's. I admired her tenacity and her drive to win. However, for me, it has become ashes now and has left me with a very bad taste in my mouth. I don't wish Vanessa ill but I don't have any desire to watch her skate.
 

readernick

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Joined
Dec 5, 2015
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As someone who fits the category, I feel like I should chime in.

I want to preface what I say with a universal disclaimer: I completely understand that this is an internet forum and most people here don't know who I am IRL. Because of this, I am in no way offended if people don't believe what I'm saying - everyone has the right to their thoughts and opinions. I just wanted to try and bring a bit of clarity.

I've been, for lack of a better word, involved in this specific case for over 15 months now (from a "trying to get SafeSport/the authorities to look into this" standpoint). Based on statements from people directly involved in this case and digital evidence, Vanessa has known about this incident since December of 2017. Other coaches and athletes based in Wesley Chapel and other southern-Florida rinks found out about it in December of 2017 to January of 2018. She's also been accused of actively defending Morgan & being complicit in the cover-up.

Do I think that Morgan's actions put Vanessa in an incredibly difficult position? Yes. However, if the allegations against Vanessa are true, then I think she needs to be held accountable as well.
If what you say is true, my opinion of this situation would change. However, I think this evidence should be presented to the public through legal means rather than through figure skating forms. Since as you mentioned, anyone here can claim to be anyone they want and to have insider knowledge that they may or may not truly possess.

If true, I am glad that safe sport is continuing to investigate the issue. I want everyone involved in the incident and coverup to face proper consequences.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
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Some of the comments here are venting in a very dangerous and harmful territory. An adult man acted in a disgusting and inappropriate way towards a minor. It's not a mistake out of immaturity, it's a crime and he doesn't deserve any benefit of doubt, nor sympathy and understanding. The one who deserves sympathy is the victim and no one else.

Yes. This part is indisputable.

Adulthood comes with legal and moral responsibilities. One of those is NOT sending sexually explicit photographs to young girls. Or young boys, for that matter. Discussion of his motives, his intent, trying to put things in context... NO. I am not down with that.
 

Flying Feijoa

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Just to add, in most countries that I know, if a high school teacher sends a dick pic to a 13-year-old student, they would face criminal charges (and obviously be barred from all future educational employment). Some high school teachers are young, but the excuse of immaturity doesn't float, because immature people are not supposed to occupy positions of authority with respect to minors (so if you're in such a position it means you assume responsibility for your own actions). It shouldn't be any different here just because the subject being taught is skating rather than academics.
 

gsk8

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The staff has no problem with members discussing the issues at hand, however, do not call out, taunt, bait, or otherwise insult other users for their opinions. If you don't like what someone else posts, and cannot respond without being sarcastic or hostile, please do not post in this thread. Your opinion matters, but do not chastise others for theirs.
 
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