Junior Competitions and Medals Need More Recognition

[el henry]

sigh... i love watching juniors but it's love/hate for me... the reason... splits, retirements... not getting out as a senior... i got attached to some skaters.. not anymore... i thought i had learned my lesson but Jo Phan, whom I have been following since Juniors has vanished from the world standing list... so there... Emmy and Aissa split... Where is Conrad? Gogo was injured... and this is just a few Canadians... there are MANY more for instance Pitkeev, Samohin (not shining exactly as a Senior) Nadeau (moved to pairs) etc...

So yeah... I can see that if, as a fan, I am starting to not get too invested because the careers are very uncertain for junior skaters, that it may be a hard sell for the general public. It may also be hard to give more emphasis than what is there now with the JGP on youtube... which I find wonderful... I'd like to attend junior events but they are rarely held in Canada other than national or provincial events... (yes i know about upcoming Junior worlds... I am talking about JGP... most of them are in Europe).

So, as a fan, it's love/hate for me... as far as recognition... i am not sure what else can be done.... figure skating is already a niche sport for seniors... so I can see how it may be a hard sell. I am sorry, that's probably not the answer some are looking for here... I blame my post on the sad news that I may have lost both of my figure skating adopted (not really adopted) sons over the summer...

I was so sad when I saw pointed out elsewhere that Jo was not on the WS list, nor evidently that of Patinage Québec. Is there any news what happened? That is the danger of watching juniors: you see one you like, you get attached, you get excited, and then ... crickets. As someone who finds excitement in the growth of a skater over the years, it's very frustrating.

But sometimes it works out. I remember first watching and becoming entranced by Donovan Carrillo five years ago, when very few had heard of him, when a path out of Mexico to any kind of lasting career seemed almost impossible. And here we are.

Since I "came back" to skating in 2014, I am jealous of those who realized Jason's gift as a junior. But that's what YouTube is for.

 

[4everchan]

I was so sad when I saw pointed out elsewhere that Jo was not on the WS list, nor evidently that of Patinage Québec. Is there any news what happened? That is the danger of watching juniors: you see one you like, you get attached, you get excited, and then ... crickets. As someone who finds excitement in the growth of a skater over the years, it's very frustrating.

But sometimes it works out. I remember first watching and becoming entranced by Donovan Carrillo five years ago, when very few had heard of him, when a path out of Mexico to any kind of lasting career seemed almost impossible. And here we are.

Since I "came back" to skating in 2014, I am jealous of those who realized Jason's gift as a junior. But that's what YouTube is for.

Jo has a chronic knee injury.. that could explain it... who knows? He actually needed to get a treatment and that meant not getting back on the ice for weeks... so if he went for that, and then realised that it wasn't working out.. who knows.. at some point, skaters need to choose life over sport... I will miss him if he has retired as he was Patrick's mini heir... now... who is? sigh... I am sad about Aissa and Emmy and Natalie and Bruce as well...

But here... the new rules may be good for some juniors who may have longer careers now... in that field. So let's find a silver lining...

 

[lariko]

To me it’s all pure gold in juniors. But I still can’t get over the fact that I was waiting for JWC in Calgary for all these years… only for it to be conducted in a partial comp.

 

[lariko]

Next month! Since it’s July, now the JGP starts next month!

 

[lariko]

No changes to JGP schedule, despite our troubling, unhappy times. All seven stages are in, in beautiful cities. Waiting impatiently for the France-1 stage!

Update: Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Events & Final 2022/23

The ISU has announced the dates and venues of the Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating events and Final for the season 2022/23 as follows: 1st event: August 24 - 27, 2022 Courchevel, France 2nd event: Aug. 31 - Sept. 3, 2022 Ostrava, Czech Republic 3rd event: September 7 - 10, 2022 Riga...

www.goldenskate.com

 

[momrk]

I echo what others have said about Ted Barton and being able to watch on you tube- being able to follow the whole season is great, and definitely increased my enjoyment of and appreciation for juniors. Now I have a whole list of favorites I have been following, and will look forward to continuing to watch through their years in juniors and then in seniors.

 

[lariko]

The first stage of JGP in France has published the entries. It’s coming!

https://results.isu.org/events/fsevent00113495.htm

 

[Jumping_Bean]

The first stage of JGP in France has published the entries. It’s coming!

https://results.isu.org/events/fsevent00113495.htm

As has the second stage in the Czech Republic:

https://results.isu.org/events/fsevent00113498.htm

 

[lariko]

As has the second stage in the Czech Republic:

https://results.isu.org/events/fsevent00113498.htm

Omg! I literally checked when I was posting it and it wasn’t there yet! Diving in to see who’s coming.

Edit: Vivien Papp! Yay! Fingers crossed for her to medal.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

I very rarely start threads, but this had been popping in multiple threads. I am growing tired and frustrated with people attitudes about junior competitions. Like they’re not worthy of note. That’s just so wrong on so many levels. There are far more countries and athletes participating on junior levels, the competition is fierce and skill level have the widest range. It’s amazing how fun and unpredictable it is. How challengers can win. Judging is less corrupt. Awesome things happen. And there is no toxic staleness of the Olympics hanging over it.

Giving juniors attention fixes basically every problem people are bemoaning, save for seeing athletes over 19 in competitions rather than shows (though to be honest what they want to see are actually their talents best demonstrated in shows, but whatever)

I know, stopping people from complaining is never achieved by logic, but, please, please, please, people… just check out and support junior athletes and stop looking down your noses at their events! Stop fixating on the seniors, let alone on one athlete, particularly when they’re semi-retired. You can, I repeat, you can keep up with the names! Try it. It’s fun.

Yes and a little bit no.

I love following juniors, and discovered some of my favourites (Yuma kagiyama, Browns in ice dance for example). It's very important to celebrate the achievements on junior.

The one thing I want to avoid is everybody mounting pressure onto juniors - celebrating them as the next world champions or challengers to already great accomplished skaters. It is after all the first stage to success, rather than the final success, and everybody has their own growth path. I always see people hyping skaters (like Stephen Gogolev), and then turning against them when they struggle.

TLDR: watch competitions, learn about skaters, celebrate their names. But don't extrapolate from junior careers future success and don't put too much pressure onto young shoulders.

 

[TT_Fin]

Last season I found small junior competitions to watch free from internet, thanks to this forum, alongside the senior competitions in same time at same places. They are so cute when they make they PBs or manage to do something first time at competition. We also have had some nice discussion with those few forum member who watch them. I will watch those when I just have time. And a little bit patriotism, Finland has several technically better national team juniors than seniors in singles right now. Some of them are age eligible to skate in both juniors and seniors.

 

[lariko]

But don't extrapolate from junior careers future success and don't put too much pressure onto young shoulders.

The whole idea of this thread is that junior success is a huge success, period. No extrapolation required. So, please, don’t criticize without any cause.

 

[moonvine]

I very rarely start threads, but this had been popping in multiple threads. I am growing tired and frustrated with people attitudes about junior competitions. Like they’re not worthy of note. That’s just so wrong on so many levels. There are far more countries and athletes participating on junior levels, the competition is fierce and skill level have the widest range. It’s amazing how fun and unpredictable it is. How challengers can win. Judging is less corrupt. Awesome things happen. And there is no toxic staleness of the Olympics hanging over it.

Giving juniors attention fixes basically every problem people are bemoaning, save for seeing athletes over 19 in competitions rather than shows (though to be honest what they want to see are actually their talents best demonstrated in shows, but whatever)

I know, stopping people from complaining is never achieved by logic, but, please, please, please, people… just check out and support junior athletes and stop looking down your noses at their events! Stop fixating on the seniors, let alone on one athlete, particularly when they’re semi-retired. You can, I repeat, you can keep up with the names! Try it. It’s fun.

I LOVE Junior comps. That being said, casual fans like my mom will never follow juniors. My mom wants to see “the best of the best” so seeing the top 6 at major comps is fine with her.

I have to admit though I mostly follow men, pairs and ice dance and have to work hard to not get attached to any pairs/dance teams. I find junior ladies difficult to follow but I do have my faves there as well.

 

[moonvine]

I was so sad when I saw pointed out elsewhere that Jo was not on the WS list, nor evidently that of Patinage Québec. Is there any news what happened? That is the danger of watching juniors: you see one you like, you get attached, you get excited, and then ... crickets. As someone who finds excitement in the growth of a skater over the years, it's very frustrating.

But sometimes it works out. I remember first watching and becoming entranced by Donovan Carrillo five years ago, when very few had heard of him, when a path out of Mexico to any kind of lasting career seemed almost impossible. And here we are.

Since I "came back" to skating in 2014, I am jealous of those who realized Jason's gift as a junior. But that's what YouTube is for.

That is so difficult for me. I was so sad when Rivers/Chapman split up. I had already filed papers! And taken note of favorite stuffies! (Llamas-hers). And Kate Finister retiring. OTOH if I don’t get invested it’s not as much fun. And Sonia Franks turned senior and I got to meet her and her mother - lovely people.

 

[lariko]

the season is finally here! Go, guys!

 

[rain]

I am one of those who do not follow juniors and don't think it's a particularly great idea to make it a bigger deal than it is.

For me, it's about the fact that it's mostly a competition for kids. Kids do not need any more pressure put on them. I think having the competitions is great for them to develop their skills, but I find it very problematic when children are made into entertainment for adults by having a big spotlight turned on them. It's problematic whether it's in acting, singing, dance or any other sport. The outcomes for these kids as they progress in life can get pretty dark by virtue of the fact that they are thrust into the spotlight so young, with far too many expectations (financial, emotional, physical) placed upon them at too young an age. It often seems like the bigger the spotlight, the more problematic (think the well-documented problems of child actors).

I do not for a second deny that there are some very talented children out there, and I don't judge anyone for enjoying these competitions, but for me, I don't choose to make children my entertainment.

By the way, I feel the same about things like diving and, in the last Olympics, skateboarding. I found it impossible to watch and enjoy 13-year-olds in what should be adult competition.

Let the children develop in an atmosphere of less pressure (at least from the general public). They'll reach the point of carrying plenty of expectations soon enough.

 

[4everchan]

I am one of those who do not follow juniors and don't think it's a particularly great idea to make it a bigger deal than it is.

For me, it's about the fact that it's mostly a competition for kids. Kids do not need any more pressure put on them. I think having the competitions is great for them to develop their skills, but I find it very problematic when children are made into entertainment for adults by having a big spotlight turned on them. It's problematic whether it's in acting, singing, dance or any other sport. The outcomes for these kids as they progress in life can get pretty dark by virtue of the fact that they are thrust into the spotlight so young, with far too many expectations (financial, emotional, physical) placed upon them at too young an age. It often seems like the bigger the spotlight, the more problematic (think the well-documented problems of child actors).

I do not for a second deny that there are some very talented children out there, and I don't judge anyone for enjoying these competitions, but for me, I don't choose to make children my entertainment.

By the way, I feel the same about things like diving and, in the last Olympics, skateboarding. I found it impossible to watch and enjoy 13-year-olds in what should be adult competition.

Let the children develop in an atmosphere of less pressure (at least from the general public). They'll reach the point of carrying plenty of expectations soon enough.

i agree very much with this...coming from another field... "prodigies" often suffer to the point of no longer feeling love for their craft.

 

[el henry]

I have no problem with watching young skaters. I have real problems imposing unrealistic expectations on young skaters. The two are not linked.

Junior competitions are exciting for me precisely because they present those who may never "make it", but are thrilled to be skating for an international audience. I am thrilled for them. Some skaters may "make" it, and then it is intriguing to watch what is hopefully the long arc of their career.

Young Suzy or Sammy Skater just landed a quintuple axel in their junior comp? (or even less interesting, on practice ice?) Far less exciting, at least for me

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[4everchan]

I have no problem with watching young skaters. I have real problems imposing unrealistic expectations on young skaters. The two are not linked.

Junior competitions are exciting for me precisely because they present those who may never "make it", but are thrilled to be skating for an international audience. I am thrilled for them. Some skaters may "make" it, and then it is intriguing to watch what is hopefully the long arc of their career.

Young Suzy or Sammy Skater just landed a quintuple axel in their junior comp? (or even less interesting, on practice ice?) Far less exciting, at least for me

Different strokes for different folks.

and this is perfectly achievable in the current context... the JGP is a real important stepping-stone for some but a fun opportunity for others.. make it more results oriented and the party wouldn't be the same So I agree with both what you are saying and what @rain is saying too

 

[lariko]

Meanwhile, for all those who sincerely enjoys achievements of cool junior athletes and not look down their nose and pinch their lips upon youth and daring, second stage of JGP is on. Let’s congratulate all the teens from all the different countries for making it into this stage and the opportunity to skate for medals!

Go, guys, go and to hell with all yes-butts and ‘concerned’