Kaitlin Hawayek talks about her time away from the sport

[moonvine]

‎Voice In Sport: Episode 112 - Kaitlin Hawayek - Taking a Break from Sport - Disordered Eating & Injuries on Apple Podcasts

‎Show Voice In Sport, Ep Episode 112 - Kaitlin Hawayek - Taking a Break from Sport - Disordered Eating & Injuries - Sept 26, 2023

podcasts.apple.com

All I can say is HOW DARE THEY.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Sadly, being spoken to as an athlete/figure skater (aka coaches/trainers criticizing a skaters weight) is way more common for a long time now than it should be, at least in recent years it's gotten somewhat less. But it's still completely unacceptable.

Here are the links to the podcast:

Apple
Spotify

 

[moonvine]

Sadly, being spoken to as an athlete/figure skater (aka coaches/trainers criticizing a skaters weight) is way more common for a long time now than it should be, at least in recent years it's gotten somewhat less. But it's still completely unacceptable.

Here are the links to the podcast:

Apple
Spotify

I will never say anything bad about IAM ever again.

 

[moonvine]

Sadly, being spoken to as an athlete/figure skater (aka coaches/trainers criticizing a skaters weight) is way more common for a long time now than it should be, at least in recent years it's gotten somewhat less. But it's still completely unacceptable.

Here are the links to the podcast:

Apple
Spotify

@Ic3Rabbit does Safesport say anything about this?

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

@Ic3Rabbit does Safesport say anything about this?

In what way? What exactly are you asking?

 

[moonvine]

In what way? What exactly are you asking?

For instance the University of Oregon bans discussion of weight and monitoring of body fat discussion.
"The recently revised protocol further states: “Coaches must be careful never to suggest or require changes in weight or body composition.”

Oregon Ducks athletic programs no longer can monitor athletes’ weight, body fat percentage

Athletes can choose to be tested. But results of the test “should not be reported beyond the student-athlete, dietitian and relevant medical personnel."

www.oregonlive.com

 

[4everchan]

I will never say anything bad about IAM ever again.

Curious about that : what did she say about IAM? I listened to the podcast but skipped parts here and there (it's quite a long interview)... So I think I may have skipped over that part. Care to share?

 

[moonvine]

Curious about that : what did she say about IAM? I listened to the podcast but skipped parts here and there (it's quite a long interview)... So I think I may have skipped over that part. Care to share?

She didn't....I was always complaining about IAM..but it is her former coaches who were on her to lose 15 pounds. No wonder she is so happy at IAM. Now I understand.

 

[4everchan]

She didn't....I was always complaining about IAM..but it is her former coaches who were on her to lose 15 pounds. No wonder she is so happy at IAM. Now I understand.

you thought IAM did that ??? Glad now that you know it's very far from IAM's style... Marie-france has explained quite a few times how their approach is very different.. There is no scale at the rink at IAM...

In the interview with NIk and Lolo.. they talk about the positive mood there is at IAM. They are many many teams happy to be there.

 

[ManyCairns]

I think she's really a role model to speak so freely and candidly about the concussion and its long sequelae, and then to be so open in talking about the bulimia, how her family and support staff responded to that, and then developing anorexia (Kaitlyn used those terms]. I just have huge admiration for her. She holds nothing back, and there's no reason she should -- but still many people find talking about such issues difficult, as though mental/behavioral/emotional struggles have to be hidden. What a hero. I'm just in awe of her insights and maturity and desire to help others.

 

[moonvine]

you thought IAM did that ??? Glad now that you know it's very far from IAM's style... Marie-france has explained quite a few times how their approach is very different.. There is no scale at the rink at IAM...

In the interview with NIk and Lolo.. they talk about the positive mood there is at IAM. They are many many teams happy to be there.

No, no, no. I never accused IAM of doing that. Just of giving my babies bad choreography.

 

[moonvine]

I think she's really a role model to speak so freely and candidly about the concussion and its long sequelae, and then to be so open in talking about the bulimia, how her family and support staff responded to that, and then developing anorexia (Kaitlyn used those terms]. I just have huge admiration for her. She holds nothing back, and there's no reason she should -- but still many people find talking about such issues difficult, as though mental/behavioral/emotional struggles have to be hidden. What a hero. I'm just in awe of her insights and maturity and desire to help others.

Lord, I may have to upgrade her from "baby" to....I dunno what...Gracie is my queen...something regal.

 

[yelyoh]

Lord, I may have to upgrade her from "baby" to....I dunno what...Gracie is my queen...something regal.

Empress?

 

[4everchan]

No, no, no. I never accused IAM of doing that. Just of giving my babies bad choreography.

ah! well... there are teams with worse choreography both at IAM and outside IAM It never struck me as if H/B were shortchanged there. I saw them compete live in their early days and they have improved tremendously at IAM. The real problem in this sport, is the pecking order. Being USA's 3rd team for so many years, though it's better than being Canada's 3rd team (HAHA!) is not going to help them move close to the podium at worlds. We will see how they fare this year, I am confident that the break will have a positive impact !

 

[el henry]

Kaitlin is so thoughtful and engaging, this was a great interview (even if the interviewer's questions were a little long winded)

Kaitlin talks both about her recovery from concussion and her struggle with disordered eating. Important takeaways for me:

1. For disordered eating: (all paraphrasing)

1. Weight does not affect performance and she knows from her own experience: her best results did not come when she was at her lowest weight.​

​

2. Weight does not affect lifts. Timing, knowing your partner's rhythms, timing again. She particularly spoke to this as someone with a partner with closer in size than is typical in the sport.​

​

3. No coach should ever talk to a skater about their weight. If that conversation is one a coach wants to have, engage a nutrition expert.​

(and if I hear, well, coach so and so wins gold medals so they get to talk about weight, the old lady cyber cane comes out. Puh-leeze)

2. For concussion (or injury) recovery:

Advocating for yourself. Telling your coaches, the headache today is level whatever, full run-throughs are not an option today.

Kaitlin could not return to her online college until this year because she physically could not read the amount of text necessary for classes.

Kudos to Kaitlin for becoming a model for advocacy!

 

[moonvine]

ah! well... there are teams with worse choreography both at IAM and outside IAM It never struck me as if H/B were shortchanged there. I saw them compete live in their early days and they have improved tremendously at IAM. The real problem in this sport, is the pecking order. Being USA's 3rd team for so many years, though it's better than being Canada's 3rd team (HAHA!) is not going to help them move close to the podium at worlds. We will see how they fare this year, I am confident that the break will have a positive impact !

The first season they were with IAM they had a particularly bad free dance. They reworked it and reworked it (including her dress) and they still got really bad scores. I think it was the year before that that they had made the GPF. I call it the Bad Sad GP season.

But if I would have known she was being coached abusively at her former coach, I would have said "who cares, medals are not worth that."

 

[sisinka]

I am glad that more athletes have a courage to speak about these topics, it is important for changes and making things better.

1. For disordered eating: (all paraphrasing)

1. Weight does not affect performance and she knows from her own experience: her best results did not come when she was at her lowest weight.​

​

It is sad that in the 21st century figure skating is still quite slow with modern approach.

I heard many times that ideal weight for female figure skater is 48 kilograms (around 105 pounds). But athletes have different somatotypes, which means that each athlete has its own weight being ideal for them. And for majority of them it is definitely not 48 kilograms.

Much more important than weight is body composition analysis.

Body composition analysis - using for example dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry (DXA) or Bioelectrical Impedance Analysis (BIA) method.

In our country some nutritions or Doctors are using BIA - InBody or Tanita medical device.
Those devices can measure:
- Total Body Water (an increase in Extracellular Water, but not Intracellular Water, this could mean the presence of internal swelling and/or inflammation)
- Proteins (protein's increase is an indicator of gaining muscles, lower proteins can mean loss of muscles or poor nutrition)
- Minerals (osseous and non osseous minerals, lower bone minerals lead to bones to be fragile)
- Body Fat Mass
- Basal Metabolic Rate
- Body Balance (right - left side or upper - lower body muscle mass comparison)
- and many others...

Thanks to this device an athlete can control her / his real shape with nutrition and training being modificated based on results. This approach gives sense. While being pushed to lose weight no matter what because "the thinner the better" - it only leads to increase number of athletes with eating disorders.

​

2. Weight does not affect lifts. Timing, knowing your partner's rhythms, timing again. She particularly spoke to this as someone with a partner with closer in size than is typical in the sport.​

​

I fully agree with timing, it is very important part of lift technique.

Ice dancer Tanith Belbin - Olympic silver medalist in 2006, World silver and bronze medalists (with Ben Agosto)
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/17/sports/olympics/17icedancers.html

Linichuk took one look at the 5-foot-6, 105-pound Belbin and said, “You need to gain 10 pounds.” She said more muscle would help Belbin skate faster and more fluidly.
.....
Belbin began marveling at her new body. She had gained 10 pounds. Her waist size increased two inches because her core was so much stronger.

Agosto could see a huge difference in Belbin’s skating. During lifts, she was no longer a sack of potatoes, holding on for dear life. She could hold her positions much better, and that made it easier for Agosto because she did not move around as much.

 

[skylark]

....
Belbin began marveling at her new body. She had gained 10 pounds. Her waist size increased two inches because her core was so much stronger.

Agosto could see a huge difference in Belbin’s skating. During lifts, she was no longer a sack of potatoes, holding on for dear life. She could hold her positions much better, and that made it easier for Agosto because she did not move around as much.

I've always been surprised that this isn't common knowledge amongst figure skating fans. The fact that ANY pairs skaters or ice dancers weren't aware of these facts is ... well, hard to imagine, if there wasn't proof in the watching. I can often see the difference between a woman who holds her position and thus helps her partner so much, as opposed to one who doesn't. I partnered in dance classes so I can pretty much feel it in my body when I watch pairs and dancers. Empathy, I guess.

 

[sisinka]

I've always been surprised that this isn't common knowledge amongst figure skating fans. The fact that ANY pairs skaters or ice dancers weren't aware of these facts is ... well, hard to imagine, if there wasn't proof in the watching. I can often see the difference between a woman who holds her position and thus helps her partner so much, as opposed to one who doesn't. I partnered in dance classes so I can pretty much feel it in my body when I watch pairs and dancers. Empathy, I guess.

For years it was not a common knowledge for many training teams.

Originally dance lifts very expressing the music or story, they could be very simple to perform. I believe there was no special off ice preparation for it.

With new judging system lifts were created to show flexibility of ladies on the first place - split, doughnut or Biellmann positions.

Acrobatic lifts began with Khokhlova & Novitski, followed by Davis & White and Virtue & Moir, I believe. ISU got inspiration...so today we have acrobatic lifts which are discriminating couples with small height's difference and couples with lady having normal weight. (Annissina & Peizerat or Duchesnay's siblings are probably thankfull they are not skating in these days.)

I don't want to be wrong, but I think that from top coaches only Marie France Dubreuil & Patrice Lauzon have real experience with acrobatic lifts. So maybe they understood sooner than other coaching teams what needs to be done to learn their skaters good lift technique. And I think that overall most of Montreal couples have good or great technique of lifts.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

For years it was not a common knowledge for many training teams.

Originally dance lifts very expressing the music or story, they could be very simple to perform. I believe there was no special off ice preparation for it.

With new judging system lifts were created to show flexibility of ladies on the first place - split, doughnut or Biellmann positions.

Acrobatic lifts began with Khokhlova & Novitski, followed by Davis & White and Virtue & Moir, I believe. ISU got inspiration...so today we have acrobatic lifts which are discriminating couples with small height's difference and couples with lady having normal weight. (Annissina & Peizerat or Duchesnay's siblings are probably thankfull they are not skating in these days.)

I don't want to be wrong, but I think that from top coaches only Marie France Dubreuil & Patrice Lauzon have real experience with acrobatic lifts. So maybe they understood sooner than other coaching teams what needs to be done to learn their skaters good lift technique. And I think that overall most of Montreal couples have good or great technique of lifts.

This is not entirely correct. We (elite ice dancers of the time) did know these things based on who your dance coach was, and they became more common knowledge as the discipline grew and advanced. I wouldn't be saying that about Anissina and Peizerat etc because they were more than qualified to do the same kind of lifts and so on that Davis/White etc did. Remember, many of the more recent ice dancers are being coached by those whom you stated would not want to be skating these days. And as far as off-ice preparation, lifts, etc have always been practiced off-ice before on ice and many warm them up backstage at competitions before going on to compete or practices.