Keegan Messing at Skate America - Our Lone Canadian

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
I don't know how Vincent got higher PCS in both programs.

Another thing I find curious is Keegan's 3A+EU+3S was called 3A+SEQ+3S and got 6.4, it wasn't a brilliant jump but he stayed on out foot and made a complete turn on the euler (step out but single rotation so should count as an euler with negative GOE).

I think that Keegan actually might have deserved silver under a typical technical specialist and fair PCS judging... (On top of the fact I'm not certain Vincent's SP jumps were all clean with underrotation done on the toe to hide it.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
I don't know how Vincent got higher PCS in both programs.

Another thing I find curious is Keegan's 3A+EU+3S was called 3A+SEQ+3S and got 6.4, it wasn't a brilliant jump but he stayed on out foot and made a complete turn on the euler (step out but single rotation so should count as an euler with negative GOE).

I think that Keegan actually might have deserved silver under a typical technical specialist and fair PCS judging... (On top of the fact I'm not certain Vincent's SP jumps were all clean with underrotation done on the toe to hide it.
 

fzztsimmons

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
I don't know how Vincent got higher PCS in both programs.

Another thing I find curious is Keegan's 3A+EU+3S was called 3A+SEQ+3S and got 6.4, it wasn't a brilliant jump but he stayed on out foot and made a complete turn on the euler (step out but single rotation so should count as an euler with negative GOE).

I think that Keegan actually might have deserved silver under a typical technical specialist and fair PCS judging... (On top of the fact I'm not certain Vincent's SP jumps were all clean with underrotation done on the toe to hide it.
Fully agree. I'm actually raging a little bit inside that the judges gave Vincent higher Skating Skills components than Keegan. I can see arguments made for perhaps Transitions, but I would really contest the rest, especially skating skills. Yes Keegan was a little messy on the 3A combo and the 3F, but Vincent had a fall and some scratchy landings too. I just would not put his basic skating in the same category as Keegan's fundamentals, but I guess USFS are gonna push their for US quad #2
 

fzztsimmons

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
I don't know how Vincent got higher PCS in both programs.

Another thing I find curious is Keegan's 3A+EU+3S was called 3A+SEQ+3S and got 6.4, it wasn't a brilliant jump but he stayed on out foot and made a complete turn on the euler (step out but single rotation so should count as an euler with negative GOE).

I think that Keegan actually might have deserved silver under a typical technical specialist and fair PCS judging... (On top of the fact I'm not certain Vincent's SP jumps were all clean with underrotation done on the toe to hide it.
Fully agree. I'm actually raging a little bit inside that the judges gave Vincent higher Skating Skills components than Keegan. I can see arguments made for perhaps Transitions, but I would really contest the rest, especially skating skills. Yes Keegan was a little messy on the 3A combo and the 3F, but Vincent had a fall and some scratchy landings too. I just would not put his basic skating in the same category as Keegan's fundamentals, but I guess USFS are gonna push their for US quad #2
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Fully agree. I'm actually raging a little bit inside that the judges gave Vincent higher Skating Skills components than Keegan. I can see arguments made for perhaps Transitions, but I would really contest the rest, especially skating skills. Yes Keegan was a little messy on the 3A combo and the 3F, but Vincent had a fall and some scratchy landings too. I just would not put his basic skating in the same category as Keegan's fundamentals, but I guess USFS are gonna push their for US quad #2
Vincent Zhou will never be Nathan Chen , I feel even with his quads he's still inferior to Jason Brown. Keegan had speed and power, but he lacks the American flag and I think that's why he was unable to beat Vincent.

(Vincent's 3T on the 4Lz in sp was q at best maybe <, and his 4S was clearly <)
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Fully agree. I'm actually raging a little bit inside that the judges gave Vincent higher Skating Skills components than Keegan. I can see arguments made for perhaps Transitions, but I would really contest the rest, especially skating skills. Yes Keegan was a little messy on the 3A combo and the 3F, but Vincent had a fall and some scratchy landings too. I just would not put his basic skating in the same category as Keegan's fundamentals, but I guess USFS are gonna push their for US quad #2
Vincent Zhou will never be Nathan Chen , I feel even with his quads he's still inferior to Jason Brown. Keegan had speed and power, but he lacks the American flag and I think that's why he was unable to beat Vincent.

(Vincent's 3T on the 4Lz in sp was q at best maybe <, and his 4S was clearly <)
 

MGstyle

Crawling around on the ice after chestnuts
Medalist
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
I have just one thing to say - we are so blessed to have this radiant ray of sunshine 🌞🌞🌞 in the form of Keegan Messing, in this sad world which can be so horrid to live in - loved every moment of his performance - the lizard having his back at the starting position, shaved ice in his hair, and that huge smile that lit up the entire arena - thank you Keegan ❤️❤️❤️:love::love::love:
 

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
I don't know how Vincent got higher PCS in both programs.

Another thing I find curious is Keegan's 3A+EU+3S was called 3A+SEQ+3S and got 6.4, it wasn't a brilliant jump but he stayed on out foot and made a complete turn on the euler (step out but single rotation so should count as an euler with negative GOE).

I think that Keegan actually might have deserved silver under a typical technical specialist and fair PCS judging... (On top of the fact I'm not certain Vincent's SP jumps were all clean with underrotation done on the toe to hide it.
I actually thought Keegan was in second place going into the free program. I guess the math was done after and Vincent moved up in points. I agree Keegan should have gotten Silver, but hey in these strange times Bronze is as good! I'm sure the team Canada skaters are cheering back home
 
Last edited:

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
I don't know how Vincent got higher PCS in both programs.

Another thing I find curious is Keegan's 3A+EU+3S was called 3A+SEQ+3S and got 6.4, it wasn't a brilliant jump but he stayed on out foot and made a complete turn on the euler (step out but single rotation so should count as an euler with negative GOE).

I think that Keegan actually might have deserved silver under a typical technical specialist and fair PCS judging... (On top of the fact I'm not certain Vincent's SP jumps were all clean with underrotation done on the toe to hide it.
I actually thought Keegan was in second place going into the free program. I guess the math was done after and Vincent moved up in points. I agree Keegan should have gotten Silver, but hey in these strange times Bronze is as good! I'm sure the team Canada skaters are cheering back home
 

rain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
Fully agree. I'm actually raging a little bit inside that the judges gave Vincent higher Skating Skills components than Keegan. I can see arguments made for perhaps Transitions, but I would really contest the rest, especially skating skills. Yes Keegan was a little messy on the 3A combo and the 3F, but Vincent had a fall and some scratchy landings too. I just would not put his basic skating in the same category as Keegan's fundamentals, but I guess USFS are gonna push their for US quad #2
Vincent's new FS is clearly designed to garner components (transitions, etc.). But when you just look at the comparative ease and glide across the ice of the two skaters, yeah, the difference is pretty obviously in Keegan's favour.
 

rain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
Fully agree. I'm actually raging a little bit inside that the judges gave Vincent higher Skating Skills components than Keegan. I can see arguments made for perhaps Transitions, but I would really contest the rest, especially skating skills. Yes Keegan was a little messy on the 3A combo and the 3F, but Vincent had a fall and some scratchy landings too. I just would not put his basic skating in the same category as Keegan's fundamentals, but I guess USFS are gonna push their for US quad #2
Vincent's new FS is clearly designed to garner components (transitions, etc.). But when you just look at the comparative ease and glide across the ice of the two skaters, yeah, the difference is pretty obviously in Keegan's favour.
 

NanaPat

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Country
Canada
I don't know how Vincent got higher PCS in both programs.

Another thing I find curious is Keegan's 3A+EU+3S was called 3A+SEQ+3S and got 6.4, it wasn't a brilliant jump but he stayed on out foot and made a complete turn on the euler (step out but single rotation so should count as an euler with negative GOE).

I think that Keegan actually might have deserved silver under a typical technical specialist and fair PCS judging... (On top of the fact I'm not certain Vincent's SP jumps were all clean with underrotation done on the toe to hide it.
I couldn't understand that either, since the 3A all by itself is worth 8 points. It was re-done before he got his final score. The final scoring is below. Not good, or fair perhaps, but a more accurate reflection of what he did. My main question: how can a single Euler be downgraded?
Triple Axel + Single Euler (downgraded) + Triple Salchow (under-rotated)11.44-3.048.40
 

NanaPat

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Country
Canada
I don't know how Vincent got higher PCS in both programs.

Another thing I find curious is Keegan's 3A+EU+3S was called 3A+SEQ+3S and got 6.4, it wasn't a brilliant jump but he stayed on out foot and made a complete turn on the euler (step out but single rotation so should count as an euler with negative GOE).

I think that Keegan actually might have deserved silver under a typical technical specialist and fair PCS judging... (On top of the fact I'm not certain Vincent's SP jumps were all clean with underrotation done on the toe to hide it.
I couldn't understand that either, since the 3A all by itself is worth 8 points. It was re-done before he got his final score. The final scoring is below. Not good, or fair perhaps, but a more accurate reflection of what he did. My main question: how can a single Euler be downgraded?
Triple Axel + Single Euler (downgraded) + Triple Salchow (under-rotated)11.44-3.048.40
 

pesto

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
His programme was great, and the hydroblade was spectacular, but I missed his trademark choreographic fall.;)
 

Edwin

СделаноВХрустальном!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
His programme was great, and the hydroblade was spectacular, but I missed his trademark choreographic fall.;)
He ended up with lots of snow in his hair, blading the ice like that for so long. He is the greatest showman on ice for sure.
 

Edwin

СделаноВХрустальном!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
His programme was great, and the hydroblade was spectacular, but I missed his trademark choreographic fall.;)
He ended up with lots of snow in his hair, blading the ice like that for so long. He is the greatest showman on ice for sure.
 
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