Ladies and the Quad

pohatta

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 15, 2005
There are very few top men who did quads before having a 3A (Barna, Lambiel?), so why should we expect that from the ladies?
 

Tarpic2

Spectator
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
There are very few top men who did quads before having a 3A (Barna, Lambiel?), so why should we expect that from the ladies?
Agree, it seems quite an ask. Several men (with 3A's) had quads in practice before one was officially landed right?
Would be surprised if it didn't take years & years for ladies to be in that sort of position at all, where it's inevitable that one will be landed sooner rather than later.
Some crazily gifted one off jumper sounds the best bet.
Read that 0.6+ seconds of air time are needed for 3A & 4T/ 4S - are many ladies getting that airtime currently?
 

Brenda

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
There are very few top men who did quads before having a 3A (Barna, Lambiel?), so why should we expect that from the ladies?

3A requires more upper body strength, which women lack relative to men, but women who rotate fast enough could still possibly manage a quad. Also note that of the ladies who have attempted quads or talked of practice quads, the vast majority have been quad salchows (has anyone aside from Surya tried 4T?). Whereas most men who do quads start with 4T and only do 4S as a second quad, even though at fewer rotations, salchow is often taught before toe-loop (Timothy Goebel's quad sal being a notable exception). I recall reading some discussion attributing this difference to anatomical differences between males and females, something to do with centers of gravity and female hips being better suited to the swinging of the free leg in the salchow, maybe...but I don't really remember.

It's interesting that all the quad talk recently is of fans expecting either Julia or Adelina to do a 4T--perhaps we will, since they have good 3Ts. And with so many juniors tacking on 3T combos effortlessly, maybe we will see some 4T attempts in the future. But I would not be surprised if the next difficult jump attempted by a lady is a 4S instead of 3A or 4T.

Polina Shelepen mentioned landing an underrotated quad salchow, it must have been under her Eteri Tutberidze days...so I wonder if Eteri might try the salchow with Julia too. Is Courtney Hicks still training her quad?
 

Meoima

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Ladies should fix their edge problems before quads...IMO...
If they can land the quad better than fixing their edge, I don't see why not. :laugh: The thing is, I am not that optimistic about quad for ladies.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
You'd get more points for doing a quad than for simply fixing an edge in a triple which usually is only -1pt deduction or less after factoring anyway. :think:

I'm not hoping to see a quad from my favorites anytime soon.
 

LRK

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Wouldn't "fixing the edge" be more of a related issue if people were talking about doing quad flips or lutzes?
 

Meoima

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Wouldn't "fixing the edge" be more of a related issue if people were talking about doing quad flips or lutzes?
You think the ladies will try the 4Flip or 4Lutz before the 4T or 4S?? :eek:
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Wouldn't "fixing the edge" be more of a related issue if people were talking about doing quad flips or lutzes?
Yuna will come out of retirement in 2018 armed with quad lutz. :rock: Mao will challenge her with quad flip and 2 triple axels. :yes: The men will feel duly ashamed for still being stuck on quad salchow.
 

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Osmond has said she may try one, as well as a triple axel.

She needs to concentrate on healing and staying on the ice; she has been injury-prone this last season add in trying those jumps she would likely be getting more and more injuries.
 

LRK

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
You think the ladies will try the 4Flip or 4Lutz before the 4T or 4S?? :eek:

No. But that would be the scenario in which "fixing the edge" would be relevant, wouldn't it? People could be doing single axels and toes and still have wrong edges on their flips and lutzes. (shrug)

On the other hand.... @Sandpiper - I like the way you think.;)
 

MiRé

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
You'd get more points for doing a quad than for simply fixing an edge in a triple which usually is only -1pt deduction or less after factoring anyway. :think:

I'm not hoping to see a quad from my favorites anytime soon.

That's my point though, but I can't really say anything since this is how CoP work. Landing a quad, but completely ignoring the correct edge of the jump , to me, is annoying. I don't want ladies to ignore the edge just because they can land a "quad."



But like I said, this is CoP. More points, you win!!:laugh:
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
And in turn, were Miki's (or Surya's) quads any more UR than the ratified quads from the male pioneers? (Browning, Urmanov, ect.) But the official record is, Miki Ando is the first woman to land a quad. Just like Kurt Browning is the first man to do so. If we get into these things, we'll have to find who was "truly" the first guy to land a quad as well.
 

Scovies

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
And in turn, were Miki's (or Surya's) quads any more UR than the ratified quads from the male pioneers? (Browning, Urmanov, ect.) But the official record is, Miki Ando is the first woman to land a quad. Just like Kurt Browning is the first man to do so. If we get into these things, we'll have to find who was "truly" the first guy to land a quad as well.

Good point. I think I've seen most of Surya's attempts, but I never saw one that looked even close to completely rotated. Miki's ratified quad looked iffy, too, but it's fun to watch some of the ones she did in practice. Starting here in this video, she nails a bunch of them. I don't think she ever got a handle on landing them fully-rotated until 2007 or so.
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
The question under COP isn't so much whether it's fully rotated, but whether it's more than a quarter-turn short. I admit I'm terrible at spotting URs, so I can't say whether Miki or Surya (or Kurt or Alexei Urmanov) got within that quarter-turn. Miki's quads in that video look good, as far as I can tell. :thumbsup:

I assume Surya's quads looked too far off, since rotation wasn't scrutinized that closely under 6.0. Or maybe the judges really had it out for her. :think: But there are some URs that just won't fly even under 6.0s, e.g. Brian Boitano's quad attempts (often accompanied by a two-foot/step-out as well).
 

naz

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 23, 2016
Elizabet Tursynbaeva has been attempting the quad Salchow. She posted a video on Instagram where she does it in a combo with a triple toeloop!
 

Nathan13

Medalist
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Elizabet Tursynbaeva has been attempting the quad Salchow. She posted a video on Instagram where she does it in a combo with a triple toeloop!
And it was BEAUTIFUL. I hope we see it in competition soon.
 
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