Making myself crazy

oldsk8er

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Hello to everyone! I am new to this site and hope maybe I could get some advice or opinions on an issue I'm having with my skating. I am a former synchro skater (open adult) who has been on a 14 yr retirement (of sorts) long story. I started taking lessons at the age of 38 in a LTS program. I progressed very fast and the instructor and coach of the synchro team asked me to try out for the Synchro team,made the open adult was alternate for masters(exciting for me) anyway, Due to neck surgery I stopped skating. 3 yrs ago I started again, I missed skating so( the ice is my happy place) I started in Riedells, they didn't fit when I started back up and I ended up getting fitted with Jackson freestyles. They have been a struggle for me, I am assuming that I am overbooted, always scraping the bottom toe pick, feeling like I can't get my weight towards back of blade, feel like no matter what I am on front of my feet and just plain feel unsteady. Getting very discouraged so I went and got fitted for new "teach me to skate again" skates. Again fitted with Jackson (Mystiques) same thing. I never had these feeling in my Riedells even when I started at that time I hadn't been on the ice since I was probably 14. The Jacksons have a higher heel and 8 ft rocker. Would that make a difference? I am thinking after 14yrs. 8 ft. or 7 ft. rocker wouldn't matter much? I am enrolling in LTS again, but have been going to rink 3x week to skate for almost 3 mos. and it still feels the same. Any thoughts would be appreciated! Sorry for the long post but I really am getting frustrated, didn't think I would lose all my skills
 

Ic3Rabbit

Le professionnel d'élite
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Canada
Hello to everyone! I am new to this site and hope maybe I could get some advice or opinions on an issue I'm having with my skating. I am a former synchro skater (open adult) who has been on a 14 yr retirement (of sorts) long story. I started taking lessons at the age of 38 in a LTS program. I progressed very fast and the instructor and coach of the synchro team asked me to try out for the Synchro team,made the open adult was alternate for masters(exciting for me) anyway, Due to neck surgery I stopped skating. 3 yrs ago I started again, I missed skating so( the ice is my happy place) I started in Riedells, they didn't fit when I started back up and I ended up getting fitted with Jackson freestyles. They have been a struggle for me, I am assuming that I am overbooted, always scraping the bottom toe pick, feeling like I can't get my weight towards back of blade, feel like no matter what I am on front of my feet and just plain feel unsteady. Getting very discouraged so I went and got fitted for new "teach me to skate again" skates. Again fitted with Jackson (Mystiques) same thing. I never had these feeling in my Riedells even when I started at that time I hadn't been on the ice since I was probably 14. The Jacksons have a higher heel and 8 ft rocker. Would that make a difference? I am thinking after 14yrs. 8 ft. or 7 ft. rocker wouldn't matter much? I am enrolling in LTS again, but have been going to rink 3x week to skate for almost 3 mos. and it still feels the same. Any thoughts would be appreciated! Sorry for the long post but I really am getting frustrated, didn't think I would lose all my skills

Coming from a current pro skater:

At the level that you were, you shouldn't be in a LTS skate right now. I don't think the Freestyles were the problem unless you aren't used to the cut that they are. And yes a 7 compared to 8 ft rocker is a difference that takes getting used to, and the higher heel on the boot would be a problem potentially if you aren't used to that either.

There are so many things that could be causing your issue.

1. Were you wearing a low cut boot 14 years ago and a dance/synchro blade? Because if you were and are now wearing a higher cut and higher heel freestyle (singles) boot and a freestyle blade then that would feel off and be a problem.

2. Were your blades just not mounted for you correctly? You saying that you keep scraping and feeling up on your toes tipped me off to that possibly being an issue.

3. Have you considered getting a different Riedell boot if those seemed to have been what worked for you in the past? Their lineup has changed much since you last skated, but a very good skilled pro fitter would be able to get you in the correct boot for you and your needs whether that be Riedell or any other brand.

There are a few other things it could be, but those are the big ones that I can think of right now.

I wish you much luck, if you need anything I am here for help, and you are welcome to send me a PM.
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Hello to everyone! I am new to this site and hope maybe I could get some advice or opinions on an issue I'm having with my skating. I am a former synchro skater (open adult) who has been on a 14 yr retirement (of sorts) long story. I started taking lessons at the age of 38 in a LTS program. I progressed very fast and the instructor and coach of the synchro team asked me to try out for the Synchro team,made the open adult was alternate for masters(exciting for me) anyway, Due to neck surgery I stopped skating. 3 yrs ago I started again, I missed skating so( the ice is my happy place) I started in Riedells, they didn't fit when I started back up and I ended up getting fitted with Jackson freestyles. They have been a struggle for me, I am assuming that I am overbooted, always scraping the bottom toe pick, feeling like I can't get my weight towards back of blade, feel like no matter what I am on front of my feet and just plain feel unsteady. Getting very discouraged so I went and got fitted for new "teach me to skate again" skates. Again fitted with Jackson (Mystiques) same thing. I never had these feeling in my Riedells even when I started at that time I hadn't been on the ice since I was probably 14. The Jacksons have a higher heel and 8 ft rocker. Would that make a difference? I am thinking after 14yrs. 8 ft. or 7 ft. rocker wouldn't matter much? I am enrolling in LTS again, but have been going to rink 3x week to skate for almost 3 mos. and it still feels the same. Any thoughts would be appreciated! Sorry for the long post but I really am getting frustrated, didn't think I would lose all my skills
One other consideration. Ultima blades, especially the low-end ones pre-mounted on Jackson kits, have a relatively flat spin rocker and relatively low heel lift. Combine that with a boot with a relatively high heel, and you have a good recipe for riding up on your drag pick. You need to adjust your weight distribution or adjust your blade mount ... or ditch the blade. You likely were not overbooted with the Freestyle. And downgrading to the Mystique not only gave you a worse boot, but an even worse blade.
 

oldsk8er

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Thank-you for the input. At this point I am at my wits end! In my heart I know I am a better skater than what I am skating.
I did reach out to skate tech to see if he would be willing to meet me at rink and watch me skate (scary, because I really suck at this point) not sure if that will happen for awhile though for the rinks around here are closing for a few weeks due to the coronavirus.
I agree with what you said about the Mystiques, I knew they were a downgrade, but thought that if I could just get my basic skills back, then I could get back into the Freestyles. That's not working for me though - LOL
Again thank-you, and I gladly accept any advice or opinions I can get. I am starting to doubt my abilities and question whether I should just hang the skates up for good. Don't want to do that yet though!
 

hanyuufan5

❅*:・。.✨
Medalist
Joined
May 19, 2018
Don't give up! Jacksons and Riedells are very different.

Do you know what exactly your old boots and blades were?

You're quite possibly underbooted, not overbooted, and you most likely need a better blade. Even if you don't have the skills back yet, you still probably have some of the muscle development that they gave you, so you could be putting a lot more power into those Freestyles than they're meant for, especially if you're actually regular adult-sized (unlike me, who got away with Freestyles for lower single jumps, but I don't even weigh 100 lb soaking wet).

Here's the Jackson fit guide: https://jacksonultima.com/pages/jackson-fit-guide
 

oldsk8er

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
I bought the riedells back in 2006- they don't even make the model anymore, they were a boot blade combo. The blade is a sapphire which I believe has/had a 7ft rocker.
My Jackson's have the Aspire blade- 8ft rocker, got those in 2017. The Mystiques I just bought have the Mark II blade also 8ft rocker
I always have been a faster/ more power? skater if that makes sense.But of course that was many moons ago...
Everyone has been wonderful here and I thank you! My confidence in my abilities go down a bit each time I get on the ice and realize I am struggling so.
With all the advice I am leaning towards buying new blades- coronation ace and putting them on my freestyles.
All the rinks around here are closing due to the coronavirus so it will be a few weeks before I can get back on the ice.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Le professionnel d'élite
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Canada
Based on what we have discussed privately, I'm going to suggest you upgrade your boot to something stiffer, something like Jackson Premiere fusion, Riedell Motion 255 (boot only) and then pair those with an intermediate blade like MK Pro or JW Coronation Ace. I fear that you are actually underbooted and that's causing many issues, I still think there's also an issue with the blade, but your boot is where I'd start.

Don't give up, you will work this out and be back to your old skating self in no time! :cool:
 

oldsk8er

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Thank-you Ic3Rabbit!
All your input (and the others) are helping to unscramble my brain and make me feel better.
Planning on going to rink tomorrow for open skate - I'll take my Freestyles, after skating in the Mystiques for 2 hrs earlier in the week,( put a crease by the flex notch already!) I feel they definitely don't have enough support.
At least I can work on some forward stroking and cross overs and see if I can't get my weight to shift off ball of my foot.
Thanks for all your help and I'll be sure to keep you informed if you like. Blessings to you
 

hanyuufan5

❅*:・。.✨
Medalist
Joined
May 19, 2018
Wow, if Ic3Rabbit is recommending Premiere Fusions or a comparable stiffness, then I double what I said about not giving up! They're a whole lot stiffer than what you're in now.

Unfortunately, the fit guides only go by LTS or jump level, not other important things like edge depth and power and fancy moves. I trashed my Freestyles with too much hydroblading and hours of edge drills. :laugh: Upgraded to Debuts and immediately got a much lower hydroblade, way more speed, more secure jump landings with deeper edges, and a lot of other things that I had assumed were a matter of leg strength, not boot strength.

Good luck!
 

Ic3Rabbit

Le professionnel d'élite
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Canada
Wow, if Ic3Rabbit is recommending Premiere Fusions or a comparable stiffness, then I double what I said about not giving up! They're a whole lot stiffer than what you're in now.

Unfortunately, the fit guides only go by LTS or jump level, not other important things like edge depth and power and fancy moves. I trashed my Freestyles with too much hydroblading and hours of edge drills. :laugh: Upgraded to Debuts and immediately got a much lower hydroblade, way more speed, more secure jump landings with deeper edges, and a lot of other things that I had assumed were a matter of leg strength, not boot strength.

Good luck!

Actually stiffness ratings go by much more than that, and after long enough in the sport one can judge it based on many factors. ;)
 

oldsk8er

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
I am NOT going to give up! I love skating too much.
You all have been giving me great advice and I am taking it all in. Was thinking some of the factors everyone has mentioned and I was thinking along the right path ....except for the underbooting LOL!
My Freestyles are not even broke in yet because I only skated in them once maybe twice before I stopped in 2017. (second time in them- fell and fractured wrist)so they are VERY gently used. Anybody need a Pair????? LOL
As you have been listening to me whine, they are not really getting a workout now, I am though... trying to stay upright LOL
Thank-you everyone!
 

Nimyue

On the Ice
Joined
May 15, 2018
Just to throw in on the blade. I had Freestyles when I started, and my skating improved DRASTICALLY when I changed out the blade. The freestyles and the premieres also have a very tall heel, you might end up preferring the Riedells if you are tipping forward in the Freestyles.

One of the other best things for my skating has been getting out of Jacksons and getting in to Risports partly because the heel is much lower in the Risport. Some people can adjust to the high heel with no difficulty, but I always felt I was fighting tipping forward in them.
 

oldsk8er

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Just to throw in on the blade. I had Freestyles when I started, and my skating improved DRASTICALLY when I changed out the blade. The freestyles and the premieres also have a very tall heel, you might end up preferring the Riedells if you are tipping forward in the Freestyles.

One of the other best things for my skating has been getting out of Jacksons and getting in to Risports partly because the heel is much lower in the Risport. Some people can adjust to the high heel with no difficulty, but I always felt I was fighting tipping forward in them.

Decided I am going to take Ic3Rabbit's and some others suggestions and try different boots and blades.
I was able to go to an open skate(one rink still open with shortened hours of operation) which was really nice ( I had whole rink to mysef!) and I fought entire with my balance, if I leaned back farther it felt like I was going to fall backwards- almost did a couple times (been there, done that, don't want to do it again)
Anyways, tried working on my forward stroking and crossovers for two hours and I could clearly see where the drag pick was on the ice.
For the life of me I could not get off the front of my feet! I tried deeper knee bends,leaning back farther anything I could think of....same thing..drag pick.
Going to try the Motion 255's as the skate tech told me the Fusions have a high heel also. Of course they don't have any close to my size in stock so it will take about a week for the shop to get them and I can try them on.
On another note, I told skate tech I wanted to go with the coronation ace blade or the MK Pro that has been suggested and he seemed miffed as to why I would want to do that, he said the drag pick was just as large as on the Aspire blade on my freestyles IDK I'm beginning to have second thoughts about the skate shop. It is the only one in my area and I have to drive 2 1/2hrs to get there.
Any advice on how to handle his insistence? I believe he is trying to find a blade with toe picks comparable to what is on my old riedells (sapphires) cheap I know!
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
On another note, I told skate tech I wanted to go with the coronation ace blade or the MK Pro that has been suggested and he seemed miffed as to why I would want to do that, he said the drag pick was just as large as on the Aspire blade on my freestyles IDK I'm beginning to have second thoughts about the skate shop. It is the only one in my area and I have to drive 2 1/2hrs to get there.
Any advice on how to handle his insistence? I believe he is trying to find a blade with toe picks comparable to what is on my old riedells (sapphires) cheap I know!
It's not the size of the drag pick that's the issue. It's the spin rocker profile and heel lift.

See the Paramount videos on "Blade Profiles" and "Lift Angles": https://www.paramountskates.com/videos .
 

hanyuufan5

❅*:・。.✨
Medalist
Joined
May 19, 2018
It's not the size of the drag pick that's the issue. It's the spin rocker profile and heel lift.

This. I never had any problem with the picks on my Aspire XPs... except for spins. Whoo, could not get off my picks for the life of me! It didn't even take two freestyle sessions on CA's to fix that.

Any advice on how to handle his insistence? I believe he is trying to find a blade with toe picks comparable to what is on my old riedells (sapphires) cheap I know!

Find someone else. Ic3Rabbit will probably know someone. If you have to drive 4 hours, it'll be worth it in the end.
 

oldsk8er

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Yes ,it would be worth it. I will have to wait and see. He will call when boots come in. I have seen the CA's and the MK Pro's there in the shop, I should just put my foot down and tell him this is what I want!
 

Ic3Rabbit

Le professionnel d'élite
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Canada
Decided I am going to take Ic3Rabbit's and some others suggestions and try different boots and blades.
I was able to go to an open skate(one rink still open with shortened hours of operation) which was really nice ( I had whole rink to mysef!) and I fought entire with my balance, if I leaned back farther it felt like I was going to fall backwards- almost did a couple times (been there, done that, don't want to do it again)
Anyways, tried working on my forward stroking and crossovers for two hours and I could clearly see where the drag pick was on the ice.
For the life of me I could not get off the front of my feet! I tried deeper knee bends,leaning back farther anything I could think of....same thing..drag pick.
Going to try the Motion 255's as the skate tech told me the Fusions have a high heel also. Of course they don't have any close to my size in stock so it will take about a week for the shop to get them and I can try them on.
On another note, I told skate tech I wanted to go with the coronation ace blade or the MK Pro that has been suggested and he seemed miffed as to why I would want to do that, he said the drag pick was just as large as on the Aspire blade on my freestyles IDK I'm beginning to have second thoughts about the skate shop. It is the only one in my area and I have to drive 2 1/2hrs to get there.
Any advice on how to handle his insistence? I believe he is trying to find a blade with toe picks comparable to what is on my old riedells (sapphires) cheap I know!

I know this is easier said than done, but you need a new shop at this point, you can PM me again and I can try to let you know of a good one near you (if you tell me in PM whereabouts you live). The shop you are using right now scares me that he doesn't know that it's about the rocker and not the always the pick, as in this case.

As far as boots, yes please look at the Motion 255s, but you may be a case of someone that needs semi custom boots for special foot reasons.

Good luck! :)
 

1111bm

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Do the heels of Risport and Jackson boots really differ this much in height?

And is this true for old and new Jackson models alike, or did they change the heel height when they revamped their product line? And where do Edeas fit in there?
(I'm asking because I'm looking for a new pair of boots and thinking of sticking with Jacksons for several reasons, but a lower heel sounds really appealing too... *sigh)

I'm astonished this would have such an effect, how much of a difference is there, I would guess no more than 1 cm? :confused:

Then again, I once tried orthopedic insoles (moulded on my skating boots) and I didn't like skating in them at all, because I didn't feel 'as connected' to the blades. They were approx. 0.5 cm thicker in the heel area than the original insoles. Tried them twice, ditched them each time after a few minutes. Although I wouldn't say that I was skating more on my toe-picks, I just felt less in control of my blades.

Incidentally, I also skated a few times without any insoles at all (first time was totally unintentional, because for some reason I forgot to put them back in after having taken them out for drying and I legit did not figure out why everything felt so different, until I took my boots off after 1.5 hours :laugh:). And I have to say, I've never felt this much 'over my blades' and in the right spot as I did on those occasions. Which is insane, because the original Jackson insoles aren't exactly that thick. Utimately I couldn't continue doing that because the lack of an insole resulted in too loose fitting boots and my feet would start hurting from the lack of any arch support at all and the hard inside base of the boots, but it sure was an interesting experiment.

Anyways, back to the topic and to the OP: different boots and blades might help, but until you can get your hands on them, maybe try experimenting a bit with your insoles too? Won't be a longterm solution, but it might be interesting or give you some new insights.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Le professionnel d'élite
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Canada
Do the heels of Risport and Jackson boots really differ this much in height?

And is this true for old and new Jackson models alike, or did they change the heel height when they revamped their product line? And where do Edeas fit in there?
(I'm asking because I'm looking for a new pair of boots and thinking of sticking with Jacksons for several reasons, but a lower heel sounds really appealing too... *sigh)

I'm astonished this would have such an effect, how much of a difference is there, I would guess no more than 1 cm? :confused:

Then again, I once tried orthopedic insoles (moulded on my skating boots) and I didn't like skating in them at all, because I didn't feel 'as connected' to the blades. They were approx. 0.5 cm thicker in the heel area than the original insoles. Tried them twice, ditched them each time after a few minutes. Although I wouldn't say that I was skating more on my toe-picks, I just felt less in control of my blades.

Incidentally, I also skated a few times without any insoles at all (first time was totally unintentional, because for some reason I forgot to put them back in after having taken them out for drying and I legit did not figure out why everything felt so different, until I took my boots off after 1.5 hours :laugh:). And I have to say, I've never felt this much 'over my blades' and in the right spot as I did on those occasions. Which is insane, because the original Jackson insoles aren't exactly that thick. Utimately I couldn't continue doing that because the lack of an insole resulted in too loose fitting boots and my feet would start hurting from the lack of any arch support at all and the hard inside base of the boots, but it sure was an interesting experiment.

Anyways, back to the topic and to the OP: different boots and blades might help, but until you can get your hands on them, maybe try experimenting a bit with your insoles too? Won't be a longterm solution, but it might be interesting or give you some new insights.

Yes it's that much difference. And if you don't want a higher heel I wouldn't touch Edea (they are a whole other animal). You might think to open a new thread so you get answers and as not to divert this one as much. :)

IMHO I don't think insoles are going to do much for OP's issue: This is definitely blade/boot related.
 

jcskates

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 17, 2020
Country
Canada
Anyways, tried working on my forward stroking and crossovers for two hours and I could clearly see where the drag pick was on the ice.
For the life of me I could not get off the front of my feet! I tried deeper knee bends,leaning back farther anything I could think of....same thing..drag pick.


I have the same problem with my clockwise crossovers. The drag pick just gets in the way. (I wear Jackson Artiste). granted I have a flat right foot, and i found ways to sustain my forward right outside edges for crossovers, but no matter how many times I practice the pick just gets in there. I probably just suck but it's been months and no changes even with superfeet.

Let me know how the new boots and blade work out for you! :)
 
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