Nicole Rajicova: Getting Up again

[moonvine]

What is strange to me, is that in figure skating in the past we expected the women to have strong muscled legs to be able to jump (and thankfully Kaori Sakamoto still shows that) and now we expect them to have thin sticks for legs (my expression) and I really don't get how that happened. Because I think that change made the eating disorders so much more 'natural'.

Because now the thing is triple axels (minimum) and preferably quads. Tonya Harding had a really good triple axel and she didn’t have stick legs and other female skaters have managed to learn triple axels (but not quads, that I know of) later in their careers. It’s why female skaters are retiring at 15 and 16, because they can no longer do quads. Gracie says she’s embarrassed by her legs and has to keep reminding herself “that skater (who has much smaller legs than Gracie) is 13” and she is 27.

 

[moonvine]

So, so sad
The top competitions show that you don't have to be a f* slim to succeed. You can compensate it by other factors, most importantly I guess strength and dexterity. There are all body types on the top!

I have only seen very small skaters jumping quads. Am I missing some?

 

[moonvine]

I agree about the unhealthy behaviors, but Eric Radford? Why should he address it? Was there a forum on unhealthy eating that he was invited to speak at? Was he asked about it during an interview?

if you are referring to Eric’s speech regarding raising the age limit, why should he bring up eating disorders during an ISU vote on the age limit? Had I been a parliamentarian, I would have ruled such references out of order.

Both things can be true.

Fortunately, nowadays it is far more common to address eating disorders then it was back in the day. I have seen numerous athletes and numerous commentators makes speeches and or write stories on the issue. We have so much to do to address the issue, but this is certainly not a hill that you are dying alone on.

Sorry. I got wound up. There is no reason to address it during an ISU vote on the age limit.

 

[moonvine]

I trained at an elite facility back in the 80s and was very anorexic indeed. The only positive thing I can say about it is that it was an unwritten rule that I was NEVER weighed, although all the other girls were and their size and shape commented on. Obviously, back then, I was convinced that I wasn't weighed because I was an absolutely huge no-hoper. It might have made a massive difference to my life if that had been explained to me by people I trusted, but it wasn't. Some years later, my main coach remarked that I "never used to eat, just push food around my plate". It saddens me that they obviously knew what was going on but nobody helped me. I really hope that things have changed considerably since then but I suspect they haven't, at least not that much.

These days, my days are devoted to ensuring that everybody can get what they need/want to wear to skate, or dance rather than being faced with a choice of very small children's wear with a UK size 12 or 14 being considered an XL. Skating is for everybody. Literally, every body.

[/rant]

First, I’m so sorry that happened to you. Secondly, I can’t get anyone around here to teach me to LTS. Third, no less a person than Ashley Wagner told me if no one will teach me LTS to just show up on public ice and start doing it. I’d have to go get some more skates fitted though, I used my last pair for signing.

 

[mskater93]

I have only seen very small skaters jumping quads. Am I missing some?

Midori Ito could jump quads

 

[moonvine]

Midori Ito could jump quads

Ok so I missed one..any more? I think there are far more losing quads after 13-14 than gaining them? It’s so sad for the women. They already have way more competition, then they have to have triple axels and quads too? It’s so unfair. And we all went nuts over Sam Mindra, who doesn’t have quads.

 

[mskater93]

Ok so I missed one..any more? I think there are far more losing quads after 13-14 than gaining them? It’s so sad for the women. They already have way more competition, then they have to have triple axels and quads too? It’s so unfair. And we all went nuts over Sam Mindra, who doesn’t have quads.

I believe Tonya was able to jump quads as well.

 

[skatedreamer]

Ok so I missed one..any more? I think there are far more losing quads after 13-14 than gaining them? It’s so sad for the women. They already have way more competition, then they have to have triple axels and quads too? It’s so unfair. And we all went nuts over Sam Mindra, who doesn’t have quads.

And we went more than nuts over Jason, who doesn't have quads either. Just for the record, IMO he deserves every bit of "going nuts" he gets!

 

[surimi]

Ok so I missed one..any more? I think there are far more losing quads after 13-14 than gaining them?

Right now, it really seems many female quad jumpers develop injuries at around 16-17, and have difficulties regaining them (like Rika Kihira). I have no idea what's currently going on with Trusova, who apparently still has at least 1 quad last I heard, but those who still jump/attempt them are the indomitable Liza Tuktamysheva, and Rion Sumiyoshi who is turning 20 this summer. Kazakhstan's Tursynbaeva also landed (and learned?) her quad pretty late, at 19, but got injured and retired shortly afterwards.

 

[moonvine]

I believe Tonya was able to jump quads as well.

Perhaps but I don’t think she ever did one in a competition. She was one of the best jumpers ever in my book. Too bad she destroyed her legacy by her own actions.

 

[moonvine]

And we went more than nuts over Jason, who doesn't have quads either. Just for the record, IMO he deserves every bit of "going nuts" he gets!

I’ve never seen anything like what I saw at Nationals. I felt pretty bad for Ilia

 

[skatedreamer]

I’ve never seen anything like what I saw at Nationals. I felt pretty bad for Ilia

Me, too!

 

[DancingCactus]

In my opinion the best female jumper to this day remains Midori Ito. She had clean technique and amazing height on her jumps and did not lose all her jumps once she turned 20. And she had a proper athletic build with muscular legs. She was not a walking stick figure. You need muscles to jump high which is why eg. Sherbakova's jumps just aren't sustainable.

And you won't develop muscles by starving yourself. It really boggles the mind. Most athletes from other professional sports have nutritionists who help them to develop a well-balanced diet, this doesn't seem to be the case in FS?

 

[fanboy]

In my opinion the best female jumper to this day remains Midori Ito. She had clean technique and amazing height on her jumps and did not lose all her jumps once she turned 20. And she had a proper athletic build with muscular legs. She was not a walking stick figure. You need muscles to jump high which is why eg. Sherbakova's jumps just aren't sustainable.

And you won't develop muscles by starving yourself. It really boggles the mind. Most athletes from other professional sports have nutritionists who help them to develop a well-balanced diet, this doesn't seem to be the case in FS?

Exactly so. I wonder a) how much science is involved in the training of these skinnies and b) whether their skinniness has anything to do with their training. Because a) being anorectic may not be a rational choice, it may be just a tradition that you have to look slim because "hey, everybody does" [while they don't] and because b) it may be genuine anorexia. They say it often occurs for girls who try to be perfect in every respect. It may be that their coaches are actually telling them to eat more but they don't listen. Sad.

 

[MCsAngel2]

In my opinion the best female jumper to this day remains Midori Ito. She had clean technique and amazing height on her jumps and did not lose all her jumps once she turned 20. And she had a proper athletic build with muscular legs. She was not a walking stick figure. You need muscles to jump high which is why eg. Sherbakova's jumps just aren't sustainable.

And you won't develop muscles by starving yourself. It really boggles the mind. Most athletes from other professional sports have nutritionists who help them to develop a well-balanced diet, this doesn't seem to be the case in FS?

I'm not disagreeing about Midori Ito, but she did *not* have clean technique, at least with her 3A...she had a really significant leg wrap....which makes it even MORE amazing that she got the height and rotation that she did!

Also, I *never* heard of Midori or Tonya jumping quads. And I was a big Tonya fan back in the day, that is not something I would have missed. Whoever said that maybe just meant that they *could* have done quads if they had trained them?

 

[DancingCactus]

I also haven't heard this. With the height of Midori's jumps I fancy she could have done quads though.

 

[WednesdayMarch]

Calling a skater an elephant, whale, whatever should be a SafeSport violation. Being aware an athlete is living on Sudafed and laxatives and not taking action should be a SafeSport violation.

I'm not sure that every country that has skaters has a "SafeSport" equivalent.

 

[skatedreamer]

Also, I *never* heard of Midori or Tonya jumping quads. And I was a big Tonya fan back in the day, that is not something I would have missed. Whoever said that maybe just meant that they *could* have done quads if they had trained them?

Agreed. If either one had actually landed a quad -- even in practice -- I have to believe the skating world would have heard about it.

 

[Kris135]

I'm not disagreeing about Midori Ito, but she did *not* have clean technique, at least with her 3A...she had a really significant leg wrap....which makes it even MORE amazing that she got the height and rotation that she did!

Also, I *never* heard of Midori or Tonya jumping quads. And I was a big Tonya fan back in the day, that is not something I would have missed. Whoever said that maybe just meant that they *could* have done quads if they had trained them?

I think I heard that Midori wanted to try quads but her coach would not let her because she thought that it would too dangerous for her to do them.

 

[MCsAngel2]

I believe Tonya was able to jump quads as well.

Neither Midori Ito nor Tonya Harding ever attempted a quad.