Peacock Documentary “Meddling” | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Peacock Documentary “Meddling”

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
I'm glad that it was acknowledged at least that B/S's program was a bit more difficult and fresher. I don't like when they portray it as if there was no way you could put the Russians first. It easily could have been B/S 5.7, 5.9 and S/P 5.8, 5.8 with that second mark being the tie-breaker. The crazy thing is that there were skaters who had been robbed much worst than Jamie and David, but they were fortunate that this captured everyone's attention.

Who would remember Jamie/David if there wasn't the "judging scandal" attached to their medals? Probably very few, it probably helped them in the long run that it happened that way.
 

mrrice

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Jul 9, 2014
I haven't seen this show but, are all the skaters and judges interviewed? It sounds so interesting. I wasn't at the Olympics 2002 but, I did see both couples in Vancouver at the 2001 Worlds leading into them. They were both great but, that night, it was Jamie and David who I preferred. They were faster and better IMO in most area's except the SBS Jumps when Jamie singled her double axel.
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
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I haven't seen this show but, are all the skaters and judges interviewed? It sounds so interesting. I wasn't at the Olympics 2002 but, I did see both couples in Vancouver at the 2001 Worlds leading into them. They were both great but, that night, it was Jamie and David who I preferred. They were faster and better IMO in most area's except the SBS Jumps when Jamie singled her double axel.
Both pairs are interviewed and some of the judges, including the French judge (who has walked back her statement and now says she’s done nothing wrong) and Sally Stapleford (I think that’s how you spell her name. David Santee talks about her on his podcast.
 

chuckm

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Aug 31, 2003
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I remember the whole big shebang, and IMO, the Russian pair had better programs and were indeed more 'artistic' than the Canadians. I didn't much like Love Story when they performed it the first time. I preferred Sale/Pelletier's Tristan and Isolde but apparently it was too big a stretch for them, so they went back to Love Story. I'm just not a fan of schmaltz (I didn't like the movie, either) and the program was too simple and basic compared to B/S's program.

What led to the awarding of a second gold medal was the string of interviews with S/P on US and Canadian TV, where they alternately wept and waxed indignant over the lost gold.

The discussion about a new scoring system is kind of ironic. The new system is just as flawed as the old, with every year judges being banned for bad behavior---for a few months or a year. Yuri Balkov was still judging until last year, when he finally aged out. As long as judges get only a 'slap on the wrist' for cheating, no system can ever be truly fair to the skaters.

And under the new system, originally the judges were not identified, supposedly because of the 'pressure' on them from 'outside forces' if their identities were known. When the ISU finally yielded and provided the names on judging panels, many studies have been done which reveal how much national bias is routinely practiced.

Plus ca change, plus le meme chose.
 
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ssminnow

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
I watched parts of the first three episodes. Sale and Pelletier come off as whiny and egocentric (still). Moskvina OTOH is incredible--her English is so good and she speaks with so much wisdom.

I hope that before the series is done there's some acknowledgement of the footnotes of the scandal--future Olympic champions Shen/Zhao, Totmianina/Marinin, and Aljona Savchenko all competed in the same event, and it's their skating whose legacies still reverberate in the styles of today's pairs, not Sale and Pelletier.
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
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I watched parts of the first three episodes. Sale and Pelletier come off as whiny and egocentric (still). Moskvina OTOH is incredible--her English is so good and she speaks with so much wisdom.

I hope that before the series is done there's some acknowledgement of the footnotes of the scandal--future Olympic champions Shen/Zhao, Totmianina/Marinin, and Aljona Savchenko all competed in the same event, and it's their skating whose legacies still reverberate in the styles of today's pairs, not Sale and Pelletier.
I doubt they will. It’s a very North American centric program.
 

GGFan

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Joined
Nov 9, 2013
I watched the whole thing closely in 2002 but even I forgot the outsized role that the IOC played. Basically the story was taking over the Olympics and they said award the two gold medals. The media and the press basically put the fear of god into the IOC, and ultimately the Olympics are about money. With the Olympics being in the USA there was no way to escape the story. The ISU would not have done anything.

When the story became a part of US pop culture--daytime and nighttime talk shows, etc. it was a wrap.
 

mrrice

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Jul 9, 2014
Who would remember Jamie/David if there wasn't the "judging scandal" attached to their medals? Probably very few, it probably helped them in the long run that it happened that way.
I think this would be true for 90% of people who don't follow skating. I'm still convinced that the only reason this was a big deal in the US is because the Games were in SLC. Especially since it didn't involve a US Pair. Frankly, I'm surprised this is getting so much attention but, I guess it's the 20 year anniversary. I imagine that if I asked all of my non skating friends who the couples were in the SLC Pair Scandal, I'd get blank stares from all of them.
 
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yelyoh

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Jul 26, 2003
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I think it would fun (in a dark humor way) if someone editing some clip of Jamie reacting to the scores (or some reaction) with Nancy Kerrigan's cries of"Whhhhyyyy?? Whhhyyyy???" Not to make fun of Nancy but just to underscore the silliness of it all on the Jamie/David side.
 
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moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
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I think it would fun (in a dark humor way) if someone editing some clip of Jamie reacting to the scores (or some reaction) with Nancy Kerrigan's cries of"Whhhhyyyy?? Whhhyyyy???" Not to make fun of Nancy but just to underscore the silliness of it all on the Jamie/David side.
To be fair…it was really presented by the American commentators as being a travesty. At the end of episode 1 they show Scott Hamilton saying something along the lines of “I can’t possibly defend this” and all of them looking like the judges had gone out and killed their puppy. I’ve never seen anything like it in any other figure skating competition ever.

David said they had gone back to Canada and one of the biggest American talk show hosts at the time (sorry I can’t remember which) sent his private jet to pick them up and from then on they were on every talk show in the US. That’s not an excuse per se but I can understand why they felt the way they did. And there WAS collusion on the part of the judges. That’s not fair (regardless that it had happened before and will probably happen again). When someone admits to wrongdoing there should be consequences.

One of the things that amazes me the most is that the event wasn’t even in Canada and didn’t include an American pair in the controversy.
 

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam
Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
So far I like it better than the Netflix show. Seems a bit more even handed (though obviously still biased towards Salé / Pelletier), Salé is also less insufferable in it so far. It's nice that they managed to get all four protagonists to participate (the Netflix show didn't have Sikharulidze) and it seems they will be interviewing both S/P and B/S together, which is pretty neat.
I'm glad you posted this, so maybe I'll bother watching this one. The Netflix one featuring Jamie Sale, appropriately named "Poor Sport" was very difficult to get through.
 

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam
Medalist
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Nov 24, 2006
.... (even down to the surfer-dude glow-up of a tan and bleached hair) and made a concerted effort charm audiences in US and Canada. I remember commentators gushing over him, particularly about how he moved his mother to the US and loved it here and in Canada (which we later learned was bs). If you want to ingratiate yourself with an American, tell them how great their country is. No snark. I am one, but I’ve noticed this my whole life. Americans also have a slight inferiority complex to more sophisticated Europeans and Brits, thus the criticisms against them (kinda like the North/South thing here).
It's smart business sense. Ingratiate yourself to the ones with the money. Japan has the shows and competitions, so all the Russian girls make sure to state how much they LOVE Japan. Same thing. It's smart. I wouldn't hold it against them. In fact, I'd hold it against someone who refuses to play the game and suffers professionally. Alexei Urmanov for example. His programs were just not appealing to the NorthAmerican palate. He chose not to adapt. And suffered professionally because of it. His choice, his consequences.
 

Near

On the Ice
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Dec 25, 2013
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Canada
I watched the whole thing closely in 2002 but even I forgot the outsized role that the IOC played. Basically the story was taking over the Olympics and they said award the two gold medals. The media and the press basically put the fear of god into the IOC, and ultimately the Olympics are about money. With the Olympics being in the USA there was no way to escape the story. The ISU would not have done anything.

When the story became a part of US pop culture--daytime and nighttime talk shows, etc. it was a wrap.
People who just follow figure skating closely but aren't otherwise plugged into Olympics related stuff probably don't know this, but this isn't the first time Canada got a second gold medal as a result of a judging scandal at the Olympics. In 1992, Canada's Sylvie Fréchette finished behind USA's Kristen Babb-Sprague in the synchronized swimming solo event, but a judge claimed they accidentally entered a mark that was one full point bellow what they meant to enter. As a result FINA agreed to award two gold medals.

In both that case and the SLC case, Dick Pound, a very influential IOC member from Canada, was very much involved in lobbying behind the scenes on behalf of the Canadian athletes.
 

Near

On the Ice
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Dec 25, 2013
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Canada
I'm glad you posted this, so maybe I'll bother watching this one. The Netflix one featuring Jamie Sale, appropriately named "Poor Sport" was very difficult to get through.
Don't get me wrong, there is still a NA bias (it's very much an NBC production), it's just not quite as bad as in Poor Sport.
 

msteach3

Medalist
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Mar 28, 2013
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United-States
I watched parts of the first three episodes. Sale and Pelletier come off as whiny and egocentric (still). Moskvina OTOH is incredible--her English is so good and she speaks with so much wisdom.

I hope that before the series is done there's some acknowledgement of the footnotes of the scandal--future Olympic champions Shen/Zhao, Totmianina/Marinin, and Aljona Savchenko all competed in the same event, and it's their skating whose legacies still reverberate in the styles of today's pairs, not Sale and Pelletier.
I watched the full three episodes and have a different view. I thought S/P made it clear they wanted to stay out of the controversy, but felt they had skated their best with zero mistakes vs the Russian obvious one. The corruption, bias and collusion between eastern European countries is what really stands out in this documentary. Moskvina makes her points (in English) which is quite humorous given all the evidence.
 

GGFan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 9, 2013
The Russians are shady in this documentary and I love it. S/P go the innocent lamb route--this injustice which came out of nowhere surprised us. Come on Jamie and David--every figure skater knows the sport is extremely political. The Russians on the other hand are just brutally honest. I think B/S and Moskvina really believe that Love Story was an inferior vehicle, shady as it may sound. They're also pretending though. They very well know that wheeling and dealing goes on behind the scenes. They also don't admit how tentative they were during the free. If they'd skated up to their potential there would have been zero questions.

My biggest pet peeve? I have to wait a week for new episodes. (We are so spoiled in the era of binge watching). I just don't think it makes sense--the people who are watching this are mostly the die hards--we will watch the Olympics regardless of them dragging this out.
 

icybear

Medalist
Joined
Mar 18, 2017
Americans really do love milking the drama bs in figure skating. I remember the Mariah/Eunsoo incident got more public media coverage than any of Nathan Chen 3 Worlds gold. Haha. Imagine if they had half the amount of drama content Russia get.
 

GGFan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 9, 2013
Americans really do love milking the drama bs in figure skating. I remember the Mariah/Eunsoo incident got more public media coverage than any of Nathan Chen 3 Worlds gold. Haha. Imagine if they had half the amount of drama content Russia get.
Maybe in Korea that was a major story but not here. It only became something because of the statement Eun-soo's agency released. Figure skating is not mainstream here and outside of skating fans no one knows who Mariah Bell is.

The 2002 drama was big because it played out during a U.S. Olympics and it crossed over in pop culture here.
 

jenaj

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Aug 17, 2003
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United-States
I've gotten through nearly 3 episodes so far. It's pretty good from an entertainment standpoint but way too biased towards the Canadians. Commentary by Martini, Underhill and Bezic, all Canadians, is basically worthless. There is a case that the Russians deserved higher presentation marks than the Canadians, but that really wasn't made here. The French judge said she was pressured but never said she gave B/S marks she didn't think were deserved. This entire incident was eventually used as an excuse to overhaul the judging system but not to get rid of bad judges.
 
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