Peacock Documentary “Meddling”

[sjchilly]

I've gotten through nearly 3 episodes so far. It's pretty good from an entertainment standpoint but way too biased towards the Canadians. Commentary by Martini, Underhill and Bezic, all Canadians, is basically worthless. There is a case that the Russians deserved higher presentation marks than the Canadians, but that really wasn't made here. The French judge said she was pressured but never said she gave B/S marks she didn't think were deserved. This entire incident was eventually used as an excuse to overhaul the judging system but not to get rid of bad judges.

Was there any coverage of results from Grand Prix Final in December 2001? I see that as setting up the whole drama in SLC. Canadians thought the gold medal at Grand Prix was a harbinger not an Olympic consolation prize.

 

[ladyjane]

This entire incident was eventually used as an excuse to overhaul the judging system but not to get rid of bad judges.

This. A certain ISU president (called 'Speedy' in some circles) made use of it. Do I regret the overhaul? Not really. The IJS does help skaters on looking for what they can improve upon, and the 6.0 system didn't. Regrettably, there still are bad judges. But also good ones who really try to judge on what they see in front of them. I actually get a bit p**sed off when people so easily state that judging is corrupt, period.

The thing I remember most about the whole scandal was our commentator stating that the SP of Anton and Elena was great while Jaime and David's was old fashioned, and that should have been the tie breaker. Having said that, I liked both Free Programmes at the time and could understand why the judges were divided (I'm not even mentioning the French Judge). It wasn't just one judge who had a particular programme in first. There were others. (the 5-4 thing). In the end I was happy with both couples getting a gold, but I remain of the view that the Russian skaters were hard done by as they were hardly to blame. They just did their best, as did the other couple who got a lot more sympathy from everyone.

 

[chuckm]

Was there any coverage of results from Grand Prix Final in December 2001? I see that as setting up the whole drama in SLC. Canadians thought the gold medal at Grand Prix was a harbinger not an Olympic consolation prize.

I actually have some data from that GPF. At that time, the GPF consisted of a SP and two FPs, and was based on the old system where ordinals were given for placement in each segment, and the lowest total for the three segments was the winner.

Interestingly, Sale / Pelletier competed at SA and SC, Berezhnaya / Sikharulidze at COR and FRA.

At the GPF, S/P won the SP, were 2nd in the first FS and first in the 2nd FS for a total 2.6.
B/S were 2nd in the SP, first in the first FS and 2nd in the 2nd FS for a total 3.4.
So S/P won, but it was I don't know where the GPF was held that year (I didn't include that info in my data back then).

As for the GPF being a 'harbinger' that may have been the case for Men (Yagudin, Plushenko and Goebel 1-2-3 at both GPF and OG.
But in Pairs it was (at least initially) B/S, S/P and Shen Zhao.
For Ladies, the GPF was Slutskaya, Kwan and Hughes, but the OG was Hughes, Slutskaya and Kwan
In Dance, the GPF was Bourne / Kraatz (CAN), Anissina / Peizerat (FRA), Drobiazko / Vanagas (LTU) with Fusar-Poli / Margaglio (ITA) fourth. But the OG was a complete turnover, with A/P 1st, Lobacheva / Averbuch 2nd, F/P / Margaglio 3nd, and Bourne-Kraatz off the podium. The Russians had not competed in the GP because one of them had an injury that miraculously healed up in less than two months.

That makes me wonder a bit if Meddling will go into the Dance at the 02 OG, because there were rampant rumors that the reason the Russians won the Pairs event was because that was in payment for the French to win the Dance event. And the French judge had supposedly admitted to the Canadian judge that she had to go for the Russian Pair under pressure from the head of the French federation. As it turned out, the French barely won the gold medal; the Russians were that close.

I saw the entire Olympics and was appalled at Lobacheva/Averbuch's FD. The Olympics were only a few months after 911 (the destruction of the World Trade Towers by terrorists), and L/A did a 'tribute' to those who lost their lives on 9/11/2001. How despicable is that?

 

[NanaPat]

So S/P won, but it was I don't know where the GPF was held that year (I didn't include that info in my data back then).

According to Wikipedia, it was in Kitchener, Ontario, Canada.

 

[readernick]

I'm watching this now and, in regard to judging, it is hard to say what was fair. Both teams were really incredibly good. Program preference is program preference. I am pretty sure the Russians would have felt robbed if the judges had originally gone in the other direction. When something is so close, there is no "right" result. However, in 6.0, cleanliness usually trumped difficulty so I do think the result would have been surprising for many people at the time. I think the IJS is a better system (although clearly far from perfect in execution) I can't believe, as already mentioned, that corrupt judges and federations never get punished and all the blame seems to land on the skaters themselves who really have and had nothing to do with the judging.

What really struck me is how some of the worst aspects of skating culture are displayed in this documentary. Moskvina (the only coach for whom I have serious admiration ) doesn't come off well in the beginning when she did nothing to stop the abuse of Berezhnaya at the hands of her former partner. Jamie Sale's coach wouldn't let a doctor examine her after a very serious on-ice crash. Corruption goes unpunished. Corrupt officials went on to lead their countries' skating federations. To me, Sale/ Pelletier vs Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze debate is the least interesting and least important part of the this documentary.

​

 

[CoyoteChris]

I'm watching this now and, in regard to judging, it is hard to say what was fair. Both teams were really incredibly good. Program preference is program preference. I am pretty sure the Russians would have felt robbed if the judges had originally gone in the other direction. When something is so close, there is no "right" result. However, in 6.0, cleanliness usually trumped difficulty so I do think the result would have been surprising for many people at the time. I think the IJS is a better system (although clearly far from perfect in execution) I can't believe, as already mentioned, that corrupt judges and federations never get punished and all the blame seems to land on the skaters themselves who really have and had nothing to do with the judging.

What really struck me is how some of the worst aspects of skating culture are displayed in this documentary. Moskvina (the only coach for whom I have some type of serious admiration for ) doesn't come off well in the beginning when she did nothing to stop the abuse of Berezhnaya at the hands of her former partner. Jamie Pelletier's coach wouldn't let a doctor examine her after a very serious on-ice crash. Corruption goes unpunished. Corrupt officials went on to lead their countries' skating federations. To me, the Sale/ Pelletier vs Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze is the least interesting and least important part of the this documentary.

​

And guess who is a technical Controller at FourCCs this week? This judge cheated and got punished...and promoted.

https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/legal/disciplinary-decisions/17359-case-2018-02-isu-vs-huang/file

I agree. The "Who was better?" side of the story is the least interesting part in all of this although for me back then I liked the classical ballet style of the Russians and now I like the Musical theatre style of Jamie and David. And so far the producers at least are not making Moskvina look very good. At the end of part 3, which is where I am at, it looks like the lid is going to be blown off and we shall see what the producers let us hear Moskvina say about the scandal and not just about "who is better and what happened. " I will say that I am not a fan of Jay Leno and his team making up that Wheaties box with the Russians on it turned into a Cheatos box was pretty classless.

 

[anonymoose_au]

I was always of the opinion that it was strange Sale/Pelletier weren't deducted marks for falling in their SP ending pose? I heard it was because it was after the program finished, but I side-eyed that.

If not the 2 point deduction would have left them out of gold medal contention, so I always thought it was fair that Elena and Anton, who had one little wobble in an otherwise breathtaking LP won that segment and the gold.

Also of interest, the French judge at the centre of the scandal never judged again, but the head of the French Fed Didier Gailhaguet after being removed from the Head position came back six years later, became head of the French Fed until 2020! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didier_Gailhaguet

What's up with that?

 

[GGFan]

Episode 4 is probably the least successful/satisfying of the series. A good amount of it veered into the Russian mafia figure and the quid pro quo with the ice dance. While I understand why they had to do that, it doesn't make for great storytelling. Suddenly, the main protagonists (the skaters and Moskvina ) are secondary figures. There also was no real closure with that allegation, so it kind of just trails off.

There's also a really inaccurate part about the IJS. They make it sound like everything is just fine and that it improved things substantially. Everyone on GS knows the story is a lot more complicated than that.

What does work is when they get back to the skaters, Moskvina, Marie, etc. It's nice to see the perspective they have gained and that despite the couples not being together romantically they are still friends.

Having said all of that, this is probably the best retelling of this story given the involvement of the major players and some of the quotes.

 

[bostonskaterguy86]

The "Who was better?" side of the story is the least interesting part in all of this although for me back then I liked the classical ballet style of the Russians and now I like the Musical theatre style of Jamie and David.

It was so interesting revisiting these programs after so long! Styles and preferences have changed so much over the years.

I remember quite a few people at the time saying S/P's program was "tacky," specifically pointing to the mimed snowball fight and the very literal choreographic interpretation of the plot of Love Story. Fast forward to 2015 and Evgenia Medvedeva is racking up PCS like crazy with very literal choreography and a fair amount of miming. S/P didn't execute it with anything like Medvedeva's flair and drama - but I can't help but feel they were a bit ahead of their time. Same with Laetitia Hubert's 1998/99 free program, which was highly conceptual.

 

[moonvine]

Well I watched the final episode and given that the Russian mafia were literally caught on tape fixing the result of the competition I’m not sure how much choice they had but to award two gold medals.

I was surprised to hear they apparently had to manufacture 2 additional gold medals. There are ties allowed in some sports and I’d think they’d have extras in all colors.

 

[VickB]

One of ugliest days in sports and in Olympics... Skategate that rocked Canada and entire world .. it is 20th anniversary...

So Meddling tv series is available on tv series 2021 app from Google Play app... I don't know if this app still exists ...

Four episodes are on this . The picture is excellent... available for all Canadians....

Made some notes on episode 1.

The first ten minutes is gorgeous . Jaime and David talking..

Then about the old partner of the Russian team. The show forget to mention about that he was a superstar in pairs in Europe and Russia .

I wonder if Meddling tv show will talk about the Ice dancing that was totally fixed from top to bottom. ... only a few countries like Canada did not participate and/or get involved of mega deal that ice dancing totally fixed.

 

[katymay]

I loved the last episode-I find I really like David Pelletier, he is just loaded with charisma -or something-I can't really nail it down. They did a great job of wrapping it up-and I actually felt sorry for the French judge. The very end was sad and sweet and hit just the right note. Well done documentary in every respect.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Well I watched the final episode and given that the Russian mafia were literally caught on tape fixing the result of the competition I’m not sure how much choice they had but to award two gold medals.

That always struck me as such a bizarre thing for the Russian Mafia to get involved in?

Like how exactly did fixing the competition benefit them? Neither Anton and Elena or the French dancers were longshots to win - in fact weren't they favourites? - so it's not like they could have won a ton money gambling on long odds.

Did the documentary explain any further as to what the motive would be?

Either way I think Anton and Elena should have won in their own merits, so thanks for nothing, Russian Mafia.

I was surprised to hear they apparently had to manufacture 2 additional gold medals. There are ties allowed in some sports and I’d think they’d have extras in all colors.

I wonder if there's extra medals floating around in that case! Or do they melt them down afterwards?

Anyway it's good to know the documentary was fair to Elena and Anton, who had nothing to do with the cheating but were often treated as if they were and that there was no possible way they could have won on their own.

 

[moonvine]

That always struck me as such a bizarre thing for the Russian Mafia to get involved in?

Like how exactly did fixing the competition benefit them? Neither Anton and Elena or the French dancers were longshots to win - in fact weren't they favourites? - so it's not like they could have won a ton money gambling on long odds.

Did the documentary explain any further as to what the motive would be?

Either way I think Anton and Elena should have won in their own merits, so thanks for nothing, Russian Mafia.


I wonder if there's extra medals floating around in that case! Or do they melt them down afterwards?

Anyway it's good to know the documentary was fair to Elena and Anton, who had nothing to do with the cheating but were often treated as if they were and that there was no possible way they could have won on their own.

I don’t know…you’re right it was so weird. It’s not like say they decided they wanted the #3 Russian pair to win, which obviously would have been a ginormous upset. I’m curious about the motive myself. But they did not say. They played short snippets from the tapes.

I believe they do melt the extra medals down. There are a fair amount of ties in swimming - apparently they don’t go down to as many hundredths of a second as they can in track. It’s something to do with there being slight variations in the pools.

There was a diver in Tokyo who had lost her medals in a house fire and the IOC arranged to have new ones made and given to her. So I guess they always have the pattern or whatever.

 

[Alex Fedorov]

in Russia, this incident was perceived quite painfully. The reason for this is a clear understanding that no one would have thought to listen to the Russian media and Russian experts in a similar situation, they would have been condescendingly written something like "you just don't know how to accept your defeat without losing dignity."

The presentation of the second set of gold medals, many people considered the result of gross political pressure (and from the United States, not Canada).

 

[Alex Fedorov]

That always struck me as such a bizarre thing for the Russian Mafia to get involved in?

Like how exactly did fixing the competition benefit them? Neither Anton and Elena or the French dancers were longshots to win - in fact weren't they favourites? - so it's not like they could have won a ton money gambling on long odds.

Судейский кошмар Солт-Лейк-Сити. Как русская мафия перевернула мир фигурного катания

История самого громкого судейского скандала на зимних Олимпиадах.

www.sport-express.ru

In the summer of 2002, a Russian businessman Alimzhan Tokhtakhunov, better known in certain circles as Alik Tayvanchik, was arrested in his villa in Italy on an American warrant. It was his investigators from the United States who considered the organizer of the criminal scheme at the figure skating tournament in Salt Lake.

FBI had some telephone intercepts at its disposal, from which it appeared that Tokhtakhunov, on the eve of the Olympics, was trying to obtain a French visa with the help of Anisina and Gailhaguet. For this, he allegedly offered them help in winning Olympic gold in dancing in exchange for a title for the Russians in pairs, and tied up the sports officials of the two countries.
...
Tokhtakhunov reminded that Gailhaguet and the then president of the Russian Figure Skating Federation, Valentin Piseev, knew each other very well even without him, and it was much easier to get a French visa than to start a complex criminal scheme.

All this looks doubtful, I think.

 

[Ladskater]

Is this documentary available anywhere else besides Peacock? I can't subscribe or watch since I'm in Canada.

Don't know about the Peacock coverage, but there is a documentary on Netflix that covers it. I watched it, it was well done

 

[CoyoteChris]

I loved the last episode-I find I really like David Pelletier, he is just loaded with charisma -or something-I can't really nail it down. They did a great job of wrapping it up-and I actually felt sorry for the French judge. The very end was sad and sweet and hit just the right note. Well done documentary in every respect.

Gonna watch it tomorrow!

 

[CoyoteChris]

No offense to anyone here, and I am not here for politics, but anyone who could not understand why the Russian Mafia could be useful for a go between has not read Olympic Judge Jon Jackson's book, "On Edge" or understands anything about covert ops.....

 

[katymay]

No offense to anyone here, and I am not here for politics, but anyone who could not understand why the Russian Mafia could be useful for a go between has not read Olympic Judge Jon Jackson's book, "On Edge" or understands anything about covert ops.....

One thing I liked about this documentary is it was NOT heavy handed with narrative.. Allegations are presented, with evidence supporting and against those allegations, and they leave it to the viewer to decide. . As far as the Russian Mafia angle, It was presented in such a way to seem as if it might have been a bit of political grandstanding on the part of the FBI/US and a few others. The wiretapped phone calls to me did not seem like near enough evidence to support the charges-or really any charges. Quite possibly the allegations were 100% true, but not sure they really had enough evidence to support them.