possible blade problems?

[bostonskaterguy86]

I don't really think so, until you get to Elite level when you're going to know exactly what you like! In my humble opinion, I think that people use 7ft v 8ft rocker as an excuse to buy different blades in the hope that it will magically change whatever problem they are having with their skating, usually spinning. Once you're on a good blade with a decent spin rocker, technique is the thing that fixes that. Note that the spin rocker is different from the blade rocker!

This is definitely a good point - I think the spin rocker makes more of a difference than the main rocker when you're learning. My turns and spins improved quite a bit when I switched from the Ultima Mirage (8') to the MK Pro (7'), but I think it had much more to do with the fact that the MK Pro has a much more pronounced spin rocker. Some folks say 8' blades give you better stability and more glide, but I can't say I really noticed much of a difference there.

You use the spin rocker for spins, turns, and edge jump takeoffs, so when you're learning those skills, it's important that you have a spin rocker you can really feel so you can learn good blade placement.

 

[Sibelius]

I see. as you progress, and get better, does the radius make a big difference? it was a random question i thought of while browsing the forum

What size boot and blade are you wearing?

 

[tstop4me]

Happy new year!
I've been skating in my new boots and blades (Jackson Evo w/ mark IV blades not fully mounted yet) for about 1.5 months now. I'm approximately freeskate 1-2 USFSA levels, and I've learned that you need to stay on the rocker/ sweet spot to spin and I know where mine is. however, when I get on the sweet spot I go up too high and end up on the toe pick or go down and exit the spin. another person I asked did say that my position in my scratch spin was wrong, which changed my center of mass and all that. I fixed that, but still couldn't solve the rocker problem. could it be because of my blade? I think I've seen somewhere people saying that the blades aren't good, idk. i really do need a lot of help right now, if someone had spinning tips that would be great too. also if I needed different blades, is it possible to use different blades with the same boot if the blades fit?

<<Emphasis added>> By this I assume you mean "temporary mount"? If so, you really shouldn't be practicing spins and jumps (even simple ones) on a regular basis with just a temporary mount. Since you are considering swapping your blades, you probably don't want to install additional screws for a permanent mount right now. But at the very least, you (or your parents or someone else) should check to make sure the screws are snug before each new session. If you can't decide on a new blade soon, then have additional screws installed on your current blades (assuming you're happy with the mount).

 

[viamarkable]

What size boot and blade are you wearing?

Jackson Evo boot w/ Mark IV blade. size 6.5 boot, 9.5 blade

 

[viamarkable]

<<Emphasis added>> By this I assume you mean "temporary mount"? If so, you really shouldn't be practicing spins and jumps (even simple ones) on a regular basis with just a temporary mount. Since you are considering swapping your blades, you probably don't want to install additional screws for a permanent mount right now. But at the very least, you (or your parents or someone else) should check to make sure the screws are snug before each new session. If you can't decide on a new blade soon, then have additional screws installed on your current blades (assuming you're happy with the mount).

Ok. will practicing regularly with a temporary mount shift the blade?

 

[viamarkable]

This is definitely a good point - I think the spin rocker makes more of a difference than the main rocker when you're learning. My turns and spins improved quite a bit when I switched from the Ultima Mirage (8') to the MK Pro (7'), but I think it had much more to do with the fact that the MK Pro has a much more pronounced spin rocker. Some folks say 8' blades give you better stability and more glide, but I can't say I really noticed much of a difference there.

You use the spin rocker for spins, turns, and edge jump takeoffs, so when you're learning those skills, it's important that you have a spin rocker you can really feel so you can learn good blade placement.

ahhh I see! thanks!

 

[tstop4me]

Ok. will practicing regularly with a temporary mount shift the blade?

Background info: If you look closely at the mounting holes on the mounting plates (sole plate and heel plate) of your blades, you will see that there are two types: (1) circular holes with a countersunk surface and (2) elongated slots with a flat surface. In the sole plate, the number of circular holes will vary with the model of blade, but there will be only two slots. In the heel plate, there will be two circular holes and two slots. In a temporary mount, screws are installed in the slots only. This allows your tech to make minor adjustments to the position of your blade without the need to plug old holes and drill new ones. [Larger shifts will require plugging old holes and drilling new ones. But only four holes need to be redone.] Once you are happy with the blade position, the tech will install screws in at least some of the circular holes to create a permanent mount; the number of additional screws vary with the preference of the tech.

Now, a temporary mount is not designed to hold the blade fixed under repeated high force, such as encountered in jumps, spins, and falls (falls in which the blade whacks the ice). Furthermore, there are only two screws installed in the sole plate and only two screws installed in the heel plate. Even if only one screw loosens in the sole plate or heel plate, the remaining screw in the sole plate or heel plate, even if it is tight at first, will not be sufficient to hold the sole plate or heel plate fixed for long even under normal stroking and edge work. In which case, the blade will get loose. If you keep skating with a loose blade, in a worst case scenario, screws can get ripped out, and the blade will detach.

With a new boot and blade, you need to be extra careful, since the sole and heel of the boot are still conforming (changing shape) to match the sole plate and heel plate of the blade. So you need to keep checking that the screws stay snug.

So at the very least, check that the screws are snug before every session. As a stop-gap measure, you can apply glue to the screws, but you need to know what you're doing. If you don't plan on swapping out your blades very soon, I would play it safe and have the tech install at least one more screw in the sole plate and one more screw in the heel plate. But from what you've posted here and in your other thread, you should swap out your blades pronto.

 

[Sibelius]

Jackson Evo boot w/ Mark IV blade. size 6.5 boot, 9.5 blade

Arrgh. I've got a used Coronation Ace, and 3 Eclipse "clones" of it (2 never mounted or sharpened) that I would have given away, but all in smaller sizes than you need. I will second, or third, that the Mark IV is way too flat for anything other than very basic LTS skating. Have you asked around at your rink if anyone has a used blade in your size. All of us skate parents who've been at this awhile have a closet FULL of old boots and blades, the blade will have lots of life left if and only if they've been properly sharpened, ie, not by a hockey only pro shop. My skater is on her 9th pair and I've got all but one in the attic (one of her coaches took one for a skater in desperate need).

Good luck, and tell your parents $250 for a blade is a bargain compared to the wasted costs for ice time and coaching fees spent skating on sub par for your skills blades.

 

[viamarkable]

Background info: If you look closely at the mounting holes on the mounting plates (sole plate and heel plate) of your blades, you will see that there are two types: (1) circular holes with a countersunk surface and (2) elongated slots with a flat surface. In the sole plate, the number of circular holes will vary with the model of blade, but there will be only two slots. In the heel plate, there will be two circular holes and two slots. In a temporary mount, screws are installed in the slots only. This allows your tech to make minor adjustments to the position of your blade without the need to plug old holes and drill new ones. [Larger shifts will require plugging old holes and drilling new ones. But only four holes need to be redone.] Once you are happy with the blade position, the tech will install screws in at least some of the circular holes to create a permanent mount; the number of additional screws vary with the preference of the tech.

Now, a temporary mount is not designed to hold the blade fixed under repeated high force, such as encountered in jumps, spins, and falls (falls in which the blade whacks the ice). Furthermore, there are only two screws installed in the sole plate and only two screws installed in the heel plate. Even if only one screw loosens in the sole plate or heel plate, the remaining screw in the sole plate or heel plate, even if it is tight at first, will not be sufficient to hold the sole plate or heel plate fixed for long even under normal stroking and edge work. In which case, the blade will get loose. If you keep skating with a loose blade, in a worst case scenario, screws can get ripped out, and the blade will detach.

With a new boot and blade, you need to be extra careful, since the sole and heel of the boot are still conforming (changing shape) to match the sole plate and heel plate of the blade. So you need to keep checking that the screws stay snug.

So at the very least, check that the screws are snug before every session. As a stop-gap measure, you can apply glue to the screws, but you need to know what you're doing. If you don't plan on swapping out your blades very soon, I would play it safe and have the tech install at least one more screw in the sole plate and one more screw in the heel plate. But from what you've posted here and in your other thread, you should swap out your blades pronto.

I checked my blades, and i believe that all four of the longer slots have screws in them, and four out of eight of the circular holes have screws. basically four unused screw holes, 5/8 used on the sole plate, 3/4 used on the heel plate.
will my blade shift under these conditions?

 

[viamarkable]

Arrgh. I've got a used Coronation Ace, and 3 Eclipse "clones" of it (2 never mounted or sharpened) that I would have given away, but all in smaller sizes than you need. I will second, or third, that the Mark IV is way too flat for anything other than very basic LTS skating. Have you asked around at your rink if anyone has a used blade in your size. All of us skate parents who've been at this awhile have a closet FULL of old boots and blades, the blade will have lots of life left if and only if they've been properly sharpened, ie, not by a hockey only pro shop. My skater is on her 9th pair and I've got all but one in the attic (one of her coaches took one for a skater in desperate need).

Good luck, and tell your parents $250 for a blade is a bargain compared to the wasted costs for ice time and coaching fees spent skating on sub par for your skills blades.

ahh yes. i've done some research and even jackson says that the blades are good for beginners. haha.
as for asking around, we don't know many skaters at my rink, and don't interact so i've never asked other skaters.
especially since i'm growing so much and my level isnt that high yet, my parents are kinda hesitant on more expensive equipment. they know that good equipment is very important, which was why they decided to get new skates instead of used ones for me some time ago. (i'm on my 2nd pair of new skates) However, they will be wayyy more hesitant to get new blades that are equal in price to my current skates when I'm growing a ton. haha. good luck to your skater too, i'm sure she is amazing!

 

[tstop4me]

I checked my blades, and i believe that all four of the longer slots have screws in them, and four out of eight of the circular holes have screws. basically four unused screw holes, 5/8 used on the sole plate, 3/4 used on the heel plate.
will my blade shift under these conditions?

You're fine. You don't have a temporary mount. What you have would qualify as a "permanent" mount.

 

[Sibelius]

ahh yes. i've done some research and even jackson says that the blades are good for beginners. haha.
as for asking around, we don't know many skaters at my rink, and don't interact so i've never asked other skaters.
especially since i'm growing so much and my level isnt that high yet, my parents are kinda hesitant on more expensive equipment. they know that good equipment is very important, which was why they decided to get new skates instead of used ones for me some time ago. (i'm on my 2nd pair of new skates) However, they will be wayyy more hesitant to get new blades that are equal in price to my current skates when I'm growing a ton. haha. good luck to your skater too, i'm sure she is amazing!

Well, then the best you can do is work hard on what you can with the equipment you have. Edges, edges, edges! They'll be plenty of time and plenty of work for you when you grow out of this pair and get new ones. Be sure to go to a proper figure skate fitter and they will give you the best advice for your skill level. It's been a long time, but I'm pretty sure my skater got through ISI 4, and her Salchow. Loop, and Toe Loop in her Jackson Artiste's with the Mark IV blade.

 

[viamarkable]

You're fine. You don't have a temporary mount. What you have would qualify as a "permanent" mount.

ohh I see. I was confused bc i thought a permanent mount was that all the screws would be in. thanks for clarifying!

 

[viamarkable]

Well, then the best you can do is work hard on what you can with the equipment you have. Edges, edges, edges! They'll be plenty of time and plenty of work for you when you grow out of this pair and get new ones. Be sure to go to a proper figure skate fitter and they will give you the best advice for your skill level. It's been a long time, but I'm pretty sure my skater got through ISI 4, and her Salchow. Loop, and Toe Loop in her Jackson Artiste's with the Mark IV blade.

Wow! i used to have jackson artiste's, but i then grew out of them during the pandemic. when we went to get new skates again, apparently the seller said jackson stopped making them. huh. anyways, after research, i found that they are the same (basically), support rating, blade, etc, just different prices
how old was your skater at that time?

 

[Sibelius]

Wow! i used to have jackson artiste's, but i then grew out of them during the pandemic. when we went to get new skates again, apparently the seller said jackson stopped making them. huh. anyways, after research, i found that they are the same (basically), support rating, blade, etc, just different prices
how old was your skater at that time?

She was 8 or 9...as best as I can remember. She broke a hook on them and while Jackson replaced them with a new pair (great customer service by the way) it took several weeks so we of course had to buy a new pair. She went from the Artiste to the Elle, which was a much better boot, the blade was the Mirage which was NOT much better than the Mark IV. That took her through single Lutz and starting Axel. Then things started getting expensive!

 

[gliese]

ohh I see. I was confused bc i thought a permanent mount was that all the screws would be in. thanks for clarifying!

We don't put all the screws in just in case one breaks it can be really hard to replace it so we just use a new hole instead. As long as you have enough screws, adding more doesn't really increase the security.

 

[tstop4me]

We don't put all the screws in just in case one breaks it can be really hard to replace it so we just use a new hole instead. As long as you have enough screws, adding more doesn't really increase the security.

That's somewhat of a bizarre logic. If you were to install all the screws, and one were to break, then you would have enough redundancy that you wouldn't have to replace it. I think the reason is that if you need to remount the existing blade or mount a new blade, you have fewer old holes to plug and more fresh regions in which to drill.

 

[viamarkable]

She was 8 or 9...as best as I can remember. She broke a hook on them and while Jackson replaced them with a new pair (great customer service by the way) it took several weeks so we of course had to buy a new pair. She went from the Artiste to the Elle, which was a much better boot, the blade was the Mirage which was NOT much better than the Mark IV. That took her through single Lutz and starting Axel. Then things started getting expensive!

haha! I go to Cyclone Taylor's Figure Skating shop where they first fitted me in Artistes. Before going in November, I did research and Jackson sizing charts would have put me in an Elle. But when I got to the store, they fitted me in Evo's and I assumed that they knew what they were doing so I didn't question it. lol

 

[Sibelius]

haha! I go to Cyclone Taylor's Figure Skating shop where they first fitted me in Artistes. Before going in November, I did research and Jackson sizing charts would have put me in an Elle. But when I got to the store, they fitted me in Evo's and I assumed that they knew what they were doing so I didn't question it. lol

Very similar boots/blades. You could have gone either way. Some fitters are very conservative in their approach. Since you are still growing rapidly they probably just went with the least costly option that met your skill needs. You likely won't be breaking a boot down before you outgrow it. They don't want to scare the parents off too quickly with the expensive stuff. They get the skaters hooked and then after they start working on Axels and doubles they hit you with the custom boots ($1000) and Wilson Gold Seal blades ($750). Just kidding, well...sort of.

Our Elle was a completely different boot, though similar in stiffness. They have revamped the line so much over the last couple of years going more towards the synthetic uppers and soles, and away from leather uppers and soles (our Elle was all leather with an LCL-- L (layered) C (cork) L (leather) sole instead of the Fusion sole. My skater was in synthetic boots after that until the most recent one. We had to order a full custom to get leather again. Our (also VERY conservative) fitter prefers leather as it molds better to the foot instead of pinching in on it. It's also much more expensive as I mentioned above.

 

[gliese]

That's somewhat of a bizarre logic. If you were to install all the screws, and one were to break, then you would have enough redundancy that you wouldn't have to replace it. I think the reason is that if you need to remount the existing blade or mount a new blade, you have fewer old holes to plug and more fresh regions in which to drill.

Oh it's what my tech has always told me haha. Because there was a time where both screws on one side of my blade broke because of impact. I'm sure if there were more screws, they would have broken too.