Quadruple loop: Men

[gsk8]

While known for many "firsts" and world records, Japan's Yuzuru Hanyu is also the first skater in history to successfully land a quadruple loop in competition (2016 Autumn Classic in Canada).



Other men who have landed this jump in competition include: Shoma Uno (JPN), Nathan Chen (USA), and Daniel Grassl (ITA).

Who else has landed or is working on this jump?

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

Boyang Jin landed it at a chinese test skate competition last season I believe.

 

[monochrom3]

Other than the aforementioned, attempted in competition
- Kevin Reynolds (CAN) ur (circa 2011/2012)
- Gordei Gorshkov (RUS) ur circa 2014
- Alexei Krasnozhon (USA) landed, step out at JGP

Landed in training/practice:
- Boyang Jin (CHN) landed?
- Conrad Orzel (CAN)
- Alexei Krasnozhon (RUS)

will add more if I recall

 

[4everchan]

Nicolas Nadeau landed it at Nationals in 2017?

 

[TontoK]

I think this must be an especially hard jump, because you don't see it very often. It seems that 4Loop attempts are even rarer than 4Z attempts.

Maybe because it's an edge jump?

At World's, did anyone besides Yuzu even attempt one? I can't recall.

 

[DSQ]

I think it’s not so much that the 4Lo is harder than the 4Lz it just that it’s not easy enough to be the first quad you learn but that by the time you’ve mastered the 4S it’s strategically better to train the points getters like the 4F or 4Lz next.

 

[ladyjane]

I truly hope there'll be many more. I love watching skaters do the loop, and the quad version - if executed well - is just so beautiful! Hope Nathan gets it back (I think he did no loop at all this year, not even a triple version).

 

[TontoK]

I truly hope there'll be many more. I love watching skaters do the loop, and the quad version - if executed well - is just so beautiful! Hope Nathan gets it back (I think he did no loop at all this year, not even a triple version).

Not counting the axels, the only edge jumps Nathan had at World's were the 3F-Eu-3S combo, his last one in his Free Skate.

So, Euler is technically an edge jump and the sal. That was all.

I think he had the same layout at Nationals... I can't remember a loop at all this year.

 

[Mamamiia]

Nathan did 3L in both SA and IDF.

 

[oatmella]

I don’t think we will be seeing Nathan’s 4Lo again until closer to Olympic season. As for edge quads, he did bring back 4S at WTT.

 

[sheetz]

Voronov was attempting it this year. Nam tried one on his Instagram story during SOI practice.

 

[monochrom3]

I think this must be an especially hard jump, because you don't see it very often. It seems that 4Loop attempts are even rarer than 4Z attempts.

Maybe because it's an edge jump?

At World's, did anyone besides Yuzu even attempt one? I can't recall.

Yuzu once said "you can't jump the Loop unless you're good at skating"

The loop is an edge jump, and the skater is jumping and landing on the same foot. I've heard that when learning the jump and you haven't mastered it, it is easy to slip off the take off edge before you even get off the ice and fall really hard on the take off side hip. Also because all the work is on one foot, a practice session working on loops is very fatiguing on the take off/landing leg, hip and side, not to mention with the falls. So i guess you need pretty good balance and pretty strong legs to really work the jump. I've also observed its tough to get height, requires significant prerotation and is prone to underrotation, and I guess that seems to contribute; imagine it gets worse the more rotations you need to cover, you need to gain more height to complete more rotations in the air.

 

[Clairecz]

Javi did a quad loop during FaOI in Japan in 2016. Afaik he trained it again in summer 2017 for the Olympic season, but it didn't work out...

 

[TontoK]

The loop is an edge jump, and the skater is jumping and landing on the same foot.

See, that's where I think it must be especially difficult.

I'm not a jump technician by any stretch of the imagination - but just as an experiment, I can jump from my right foot and land on it - no rotations, just a "standing broad jump" off of one foot. But I can't cover much distance or get much height doing it. But If I jump off my left and land on my right - I can do much better.

So I kinda think that gives me an idea of why a loop is so hard.

 

[gonewiththewind25]

I think I saw one by either Aliev or Makar Ignatov on Instagram a while ago but I'm not too sure...

 

[alexaa]

Nathan’s successful quad loop at US international Classic 2017

https://youtu.be/qqd1a29JcrU

At Japan open 2017

https://youtu.be/3SQCSx3eON0

I believe he succeeded in doing it in his LoA last summer when he was with Raf, that is why Raf was not as excited and happy about his performances at Nationals per a post nats news article. He mentioned he could do both 4s and 4 loop back, but was not able to do it at Nationals.

He did have successful attempt of 4 loop during Japan Open 2018 warmups, but bombed in competition. 3 loop was in his Skate America and IdF jump layout. I don’t think Raf would like to see Nathan randomly had those jumps there if they were originally planning for 4 loop.

 

[alexaa]

I think I saw one by either Aliev or Makar Ignatov on Instagram a while ago but I'm not too sure...

I watched the one from Dima, I believe it was from his IG story. It was around the time after Nationals. He landed all 5 types of quads in a series of IG stories, but so sure about if fully rotated

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

See, that's where I think it must be especially difficult.

I'm not a jump technician by any stretch of the imagination - but just as an experiment, I can jump from my right foot and land on it - no rotations, just a "standing broad jump" off of one foot. But I can't cover much distance or get much height doing it. But If I jump off my left and land on my right - I can do much better.

So I kinda think that gives me an idea of why a loop is so hard.

It's tricky in that you're having to derive all your height by springing off the foot (and using your arms of course) and don't get the benefit of a vaulting pick or a free leg swinging through. However, jumps are rotated while in a back spin position (RBO spinning with left free leg wrapped around your spinning leg, for a right), so while it's tougher to generate spring, a loop jump (RBO edge entry, if a righty) puts you practically right into backspin position upon the takeoff. While I absolutely hated loop jumps (requires perfect timing and if you skid there's no saving it), I was a pretty fast spinner and so the loop was actually the first triple I ended up ever successfully doing. As we know it was also the first triple ever done (Dick Button).

 

[TontoK]

It's tricky in that you're having to derive all your height by springing off the foot (and using your arms of course) and don't get the benefit of a vaulting pick or a free leg swinging through. However, jumps are rotated while in a back spin position (RBO spinning with left free leg wrapped around your spinning leg, for a right), so while it's tougher to generate spring, a loop jump (RBO edge entry, if a righty) puts you practically right into backspin position upon the takeoff. While I absolutely hated loop jumps (requires perfect timing and if you skid there's no saving it), I was a pretty fast spinner and so the loop was actually the first triple I ended up ever successfully doing. As we know it was also the first triple ever done (Dick Button).

Very interesting, thank you. You mention timing of the jump. Is it easier to "save" a flip jump (for example) than a loop if the timing isn't just right?

Really insightful to get this from someone who has actually done it on ice.

 

[1111bm]

The loop is an edge jump, and the skater is jumping and landing on the same foot. I've heard that when learning the jump and you haven't mastered it, it is easy to slip off the take off edge before you even get off the ice and fall really hard on the take off side hip. (...) So i guess you need pretty good balance and pretty strong legs to really work the jump. I've also observed its tough to get height...

I can only speak for single jumps , but among those I'd say it's the easiest of all jumps. :confused2:
Takes the least effort, the take-off almost happens on its own and it's nice and smooth. I also don't feel like I need particularly strong legs or balance for it compared to the other jumps. All of that may change of course, with the number of revolutions.

I also don't find it that hard to get height on it. True, there's no vaulting assistance from the toe-pick, but you create height by pressing into the ice when you deepen your outside edge, bend your knees and then push off the ice in the right moment. Feels kinda neat actually. :luv17: But yeah, to get sufficient height, you need to hit that right moment, so there's that timing aspect (although height is not much of a concern when you're just doing a single, lol).

See, that's where I think it must be especially difficult.

I'm not a jump technician by any stretch of the imagination - but just as an experiment, I can jump from my right foot and land on it - no rotations, just a "standing broad jump" off of one foot. But I can't cover much distance or get much height doing it. But If I jump off my left and land on my right - I can do much better.

In my experience it's not comparable to an off-ice jump, because you don't have an actual edge that you can push off and you're not gliding across the ice. I find off-ice loops to be a lot more strenuous than those on ice (albeit a great tool to practice a backspin position and keeping a leg cross upon landing).

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I often get the impression, that most skaters struggle with keeping a straight axis when they add more revolutions to the loop, and that's what makes it so inconsistent. At least that's what it looks like to me, and I think that could be due to the take-off, because over-rotating the upper part of the body or dropping one shoulder might happen easier on a loop than on other jumps...? That's just me guessing, though.