Quadruple loop: Men | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Quadruple loop: Men

Step Sequence4

JULLLIEEEEETTTT!
Final Flight
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
There's a certain draw you need for the takeoff of a loop to get the right height and direction, which makes it very easy to pull the jump (Not go straight back, but go over) for higher amounts of rotation you need very quick movement by the left leg. On the takeoff it pops up to help with going through and getting height, but also needs to come back down into the rotational position almost immediately. Between those two things, it is a lot more difficult to get the required height, direction and speed of rotation in loops, which is why I would imagine quads are so difficult (I'm working on 3Lo).
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Very interesting, thank you. You mention timing of the jump. Is it easier to "save" a flip jump (for example) than a loop if the timing isn't just right?

Really insightful to get this from someone who has actually done it on ice.

A flip or lutz jump can still be saved if you miss the pick (I can try to find examples) and there is some slight leeway as to when you can start rotating your body due to the vaulting foot launching you in the air (the part which makes them harder is vaulting with the right foot leading with the left foot going up into the air first and then transitioning over into backspin position). If you mess up the timing of a loop and start rotating your shoulders/upper body too soon and go "outside the circle" that is hard to recover from... and of course there is the risk where if your takeoff edge is too deep you skid off of it or don't generate the height. There's a reason why we see some intended double loops in 3 jump combos turned to singles because if you miss the timing of the takeoff there's no saving it - but with a double or triple toe you can pick immediately or ride the edge or tack it on (eg Chen tacking on a last moment 2T to combo his 3A+2T at COR2017, which likely saved his win https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-VuZw6lPH0#t=4m). A loop requires harmonious timing of takeoff and upper body rotation and pulling into the backspin which is why it's much harder than a salchow or toe loop which have a bit of leeway in the takeoff timing.
 

Shedi0806

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2018
I think this must be an especially hard jump, because you don't see it very often. It seems that 4Loop attempts are even rarer than 4Z attempts.

Maybe because it's an edge jump?

At World's, did anyone besides Yuzu even attempt one? I can't recall.

Correct, noone else did. It must be ridiculously difficult if only one man does it at the Worlds, right?
 

ladyjane

Medalist
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Country
Netherlands
Correct, noone else did. It must be ridiculously difficult if only one man does it at the Worlds, right?

It's one of those things that made that men's final so spectacular: a quad loop and a 4T-3A sequence for one skater and multiple quads (but no loop) for the other. I keep on rewatching it: first Yuzu (sigh, sigh and hurrah at the 4L and the Sequence) and then Nathan's perfect skate (but no loop, sigh). Both so impressive. A special night that's for sure, and that 4L had an important part in it.
 

FCSSp4

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 10, 2017
Difficult to land consistently, much less sustain. Hanyu regaining it after recovering from two significant injuries is no joke.
 

slotka

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 1, 2019
Correct, noone else did. It must be ridiculously difficult if only one man does it at the Worlds, right?

Next year I think there will be at least 2 men with 4Lo. I’m talking about Grassl, he competed at EC, JWC and WTT with 4Lo
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Correct, noone else did. It must be ridiculously difficult if only one man does it at the Worlds, right?

Nobody else attempted it. But Chen and Uno are capable of doing 4L (Jin too I think?).

The 4L is one of the hardest quads but just because nobody else attempted it doesn't make it the hardest.

Cha was the only one to do a 3Z+3L... but there are still harder 3-3 combos.

Also Chen was the only man to do a successful 4F. It's also ridiculously difficult but there are other skaters capable of landing it, and they just didn't happen to on the day.
 

oatmella

陈巍
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
The 4Lo is surely extremely difficult.

But it’s hard to train every quad - so for some, it may be a matter of prioritizing training other quad jumps, including 4Lz, 4F.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
watch out for Conrad Orzel who does train every quad... which ones will he choose for his programs? we will see... i'd be surprised to see the 4L from him as his 4Lz is better
 

Shedi0806

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2018
It's one of those things that made that men's final so spectacular: a quad loop and a 4T-3A sequence for one skater and multiple quads (but no loop) for the other. I keep on rewatching it: first Yuzu (sigh, sigh and hurrah at the 4L and the Sequence) and then Nathan's perfect skate (but no loop, sigh). Both so impressive. A special night that's for sure, and that 4L had an important part in it.

That event was so thrilling. When he was going into the quad loop I literally could not breath. Both men were fantastic. Hard to find the right words, really. And a huge +5 for the audience!
 

sheetz

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
I remember seeing Grassl landing a crazy 4Lo-1Eu-4Lo combo on instagram. I don't know if it's still up anywhere.
 

1111bm

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
I remember seeing Grassl landing a crazy 4Lo-1Eu-4Lo combo on instagram. I don't know if it's still up anywhere.

I saw that one too, but it's not a combo. I assume this would count as a sequence, because he changes feet after the Euler to add the -4Lo. Which, btw, was landed forward from what I could see, so I wasn't too impressed by it, although I sure was by his first 4Lo in that sequence, which looked really effortless.

ETA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBvIDMew_xE
 

npavel

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Grassl is training all the quadruple jumps and has videos about all of them landing in practice. In competition the 4L he did at WTT got a GOE of 2.25, the same as at Euros for total 12.75 points. He posted 4F last sommer, but I didn't see it this year. At WTT was the first time he got an edge call on the 4Lz, I found it very strange, his Lz never get edge calls before. He said he want to bring all the quads as soon as possible
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Grassl is amazing and great to see that he's looking to master all quads. He's landed the 4L several times this season too!
 
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