Qualification for Beijing 2022

[karne]

I am thrilled that Donovan gets to go, but not sure how i feel about someone like Brendan Kerry (who i think was injured and could not go to worlds - i don't believe his non-attendance was by choice or any fault of his) now having to fight Korea, France, Russia USA & Canada to go to the Olympics.

I'm not delighted about this either, but Brendan will also not have to compete against Israel, Mexico, Ukraine, Czech Republic, Sweden etc, all of whom he would normally have to fight for a spot at Nebelhorn under the old system. IIRC his PB is also higher than Korea and possibly France. So the window seems narrower, but the possibilities are there. He's going to have to arrive at Nebelhorn in top shape though.

If anything, Kailani missing the cut despite having a higher TES than a couple of skaters who made it stings worse.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Donovan's going to the Olympics!!!

Day has been made

Can't wait to see that brilliant lighting up the ice.

 

[NanaPat]

(Side note: Even today, I find Jackie Wong's representation of the ISU's official tally to be less than "helpful."
I will repeat that overall I have great respect for Jackie, but I still disagree with his handling of this topic.)

I totally agree. The US men's 3rd spot does not have to be "earned again at Nebelhorn." It was NOT earned at Worlds. It does not exist, provisional or no. The US men earned two Olympic spots and a possibility of earning another Olympic spot at Nebelhorn.

Similarly, Keegan Messing did not "earn two Olympic spots for Canada". He earned 2 Worlds spots; he also earned one Olympic spot and the possibility of earning another Olympic spot at Nebelhorn.

Calling them "provisional spots" is misleading. It implies that they are somehow on a different footing from other spots at Nebelhorn, and the ISU has clearly stated that they are not.

Did Paul Fentz earn a "provisional spot" for Germany by failing to make the free skate?

Did Brendan Kerry earn "a provisional spot" for Australia by not competing at Worlds?

In fact, the USA, Canada, Germany, and Australia are all on an equal footing at Nebelhorn, attempting to win one spot with one skater. The only difference is that the USA and Canada have restrictions on what skater they can send, while Germany and Australia do not.

If you don't know what to call them, call them "the opportunity to vie for an additional spot at Nebelhorn." You can also talk about countries that "earned less Olympic spots than World spots".

 

[Tavi...]

I’m not sure it really matters what @el henry calls the spots, but the fact is, the ISU communication refers to the opportunity to earn an additional Olympic entry/quota place (see below). Significantly, that opportunity is limited to 5 countries based on their strong performances at Worlds; 11 countries whose skaters also participated are not permitted that opportunity. Whether the skaters competing for those spots are truly on an equal footing depends on the strength of the individual skaters sent to Nebelhorn and how they perform on the day.

“An ISU Member/NOC, who did not have two (2) respectively three (3) Skaters qualified for the Free Skating/Free Dance at the WC2021 but would have earned the necessary points for two (2) respectively three (3) entries/quota places may enter one Skater to earn one additional entry/quota place in the Qualification Competition for the Olympic Winter Games (Nebelhorn Trophy, September 22-25, 2021 in Oberstdorf/Germany) hereafter “the Qualifying Competition”.

https://isu.org/inside-isu/isu-communications/communications/25713-2388-entries-2022-owg-fsid-before-qual-comp/file

 

[icybear]

Actually the provisional spots is a good thing because it stops situations like when Korea would get 3 spots just because they had Kim Yuna. Skaters that wouldnt rank in the top 25 but get to have an olympics spot just because they have an elite skater from their country. This way at least they gonna need to compete at a competition rather than just needing to meet a very low min tes

 

[ice coverage]

... Did Paul Fentz earn a "provisional spot" for Germany by failing to make the free skate?

Did Brendan Kerry earn "a provisional spot" for Australia by not competing at Worlds? ...

I’m not sure it really matters what @el henry calls the spots, but the fact is, the ISU communication refers to the opportunity to earn an additional Olympic entry/quota place (see below). ...

Part of the difference of opinion is over whether the *opportunity* to earn a spot warrants being called a "provisional spot."

For the sake of discussion, NanaPat's post above gave examples of other federations that -- according to a different part of the ISU rules -- also have the *opportunity* to earn an OWG spot via Nebelhorn.

For those (unlike me) who believe that opportunity = "provisional spot," the "logical"/consistent answer to NanaPat's questions would have to be that Germany and Australia also *do* have so-called "provisional spots" in the men's discipline.
(With a certain group of other federations being in the same category as Germany, and a different group of other federations being in the same category as Australia.)

For those like me (and NanaPat) who do not believe that opportunity = "provisional spot," Germany and Australia do not have so-called "provisional spots" in the men's discipline -- nor do USA, FSR, CAN, FRA, KOR.