Rhythmic Gymnastics Tokyo 2020 Individual AA Final: Were Averina sisters robbed or nah? | Page 6 | Golden Skate

Rhythmic Gymnastics Tokyo 2020 Individual AA Final: Were Averina sisters robbed or nah?

Alegria

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Dina has been lowering her BD for years now because she just can’t do the more difficult things anymore. So I’m not sure why are people surprised here. I’m not sure what else they are protesting either.

She didn’t even compete cleanly in her other apparatus. She lost a bunch of ADs, had medium to large faults in BD execution, in routines that weren’t even the most difficult. This result was not a surprise. It had to happen someday.
Exactly. She has a very painful back injury. They tried hard to compensate it, but its impossible. Girls in figure skating often have problems with spins because of back injuries. But they have only 3 spins, while gymnasts had to much more difficult things.
Dina lost to herself. She was like Medvedeva in Korea. Dina did her best, but it wasn't enough.
 

coldblueeyes

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Country
Brazil
If anyone followed RG regularly they'd know the pictures we got from her competing with thick bandages on her back a few times, not to talk about her feet all wrapped up. Is the same that happened to Kudryavtseva towards Rio, she wouldn't do difficulties on her relevé. Russian gymnasts are severely overworked, and worse for the Averinas was the fact that none of the other girls could compete with other gymnasts internationally this cycle. At least the twins managed to win most of the time, but the other girls would more likely than not falter or simply not be good enough.

They were pushed to extremes to get there, and it wasn't enough. Though, if the Olympics were last year, I'm not even sure they'd have competed.
 

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
If anyone followed RG regularly they'd know the pictures we got from her competing with thick bandages on her back a few times, not to talk about her feet all wrapped up. Is the same that happened to Kudryavtseva towards Rio, she wouldn't do difficulties on her relevé. Russian gymnasts are severely overworked, and worse for the Averinas was the fact that none of the other girls could compete with other gymnasts internationally this cycle. At least the twins managed to win most of the time, but the other girls would more likely than not falter or simply not be good enough.

They were pushed to extremes to get there, and it wasn't enough. Though, if the Olympics were last year, I'm not even sure they'd have competed.

I don't follow rhythmic gymnastics but I remember someone on this board making a comment a few years ago about 1 of the Averina twins looking like she was held together by sport tape
 

coldblueeyes

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Country
Brazil
I don't follow rhythmic gymnastics but I remember someone on this board making a comment a few years ago about 1 of the Averina twins looking like she was held together by sport tape
The very same Olympic silver medallist.
 

gliese

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 31, 2020
Country
United-States
Girls in figure skating often have problems with spins because of back injuries. But they have only 3 spins, while gymnasts had to much more difficult things.
It's also possible to get 4s on spins without doing anything that hurts your back except for the layback spin when it is required, but that is only one spin of all the ones you do. In RG that's not really the case.
 

GoneWithTheWind

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Country
United-Kingdom
The FIG have released a statement about the judging of the RG finals: https://twitter.com/gymnastics/status/1428302032499249160/photo/1

It states that "no bias or irregularities" were found in the judging and that, because of this, the results are "fair and impartial".

It also condemns the people who have been sending threats/hate messages to the judges, saying that this is "utterly unacceptable" and that the judges have the FIG's "full support".
 

samkrut@mail.ru

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
The FIG have released a statement about the judging of the RG finals: https://twitter.com/gymnastics/status/1428302032499249160/photo/1

It states that "no bias or irregularities" were found in the judging and that, because of this, the results are "fair and impartial".

It also condemns the people who have been sending threats/hate messages to the judges, saying that this is "utterly unacceptable" and that the judges have the FIG's "full support".
Russian Federation replied:
"Важно отметить, что помимо настоятельных заверений о честности и непредвзятости судейства и оценочной системы, в письме четко прописан отказ предоставить результаты видеоанализа выступлений спортсменок в индивидуальном и командном многоборье, а также детализированные протоколы выставления оценок и штрафных баллов участницам соревнований (судейские карточки), которые были запрошены нами еще в Токио 7 и 8 августа"

"It's important to notice that in addition to persuasive assurance that the judging was honest and unbiased the letter precisely says that no performance analysis of both individual and team competitions will be provided same as detailed protocols of scores and deductions (judges' cards). We requested this info back in Tokyo on August 7 and 8."



They plan to keep on working on this. Now once again, I am not an expert. From a regular viewer standpoint Averina's losing to Ashram whom she beat in big competitions over years can only make sense when she made a gross mistake and Ashram did not (Kudryavtseva vs. Mamun in Rio). Here it was the opposite. And yes, detailed explanations could be helpful. Although I can understand the international FED as well. Providing the requested info will fuel another duel of opinions. It will be the same as in Sochi. "What, Yuna's StSq is just level 3 and Adelina's is level 4? Guys, those judges was a corrupt bunch of folks - let's take a close look at their last names".
 

surimi

Good luck in the new season, Sota!
Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
I think they should publish the judging verdicts. I have no idea why protocols in gymnastics aren't published the same way they are in skating. Also, why act one way in men's artistic gymnastics (they published protocols when there was an outcry about the result of individual men's event), and differently in women's rhythmic gymnastics?
 

samkrut@mail.ru

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
I think they should publish the judging verdicts. I have no idea why protocols in gymnastics aren't published the same way they are in skating. Also, why act one way in men's artistic gymnastics (they published protocols when there was an outcry about the result of individual men's event), and differently in women's rhythmic gymnastics?
Once again, I am not an expert. And I am speaking from common sense. There was a table that I posted that showed that Dina had the last but one least difficult program in BD. And there were experts or "experts" here that explained that this made sense and it was fair. Something tells me that Viner would say that this was beyond ridiculous that multiple worlds winner had the least difficult program when the Russians under her command always pushed the boundaries. And we shall have the same "Sochi discussion" when one party would shout: "How "queen Yuna" could receive lower StSq level than "speed skater" Adelina?" And the other party would reply that: "Your used to be "queen" after all those injuries even cannot jump a loop and do a Bielmann. Stop living in the past!" It would be exactly the same situation, hence, I think that we shall all relax. And this cold shower may be good news. As Viner now should think that she and her method are not invincible and they might start doing something different.
 

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
I think they should publish the judging verdicts. I have no idea why protocols in gymnastics aren't published the same way they are in skating. Also, why act one way in men's artistic gymnastics (they published protocols when there was an outcry about the result of individual men's event), and differently in women's rhythmic gymnastics?

Agree, the only aspect of judging that I semi-understand keeping 'secret' is the names of judges, but not releasing any type of protocols just looks shady.
 

coldblueeyes

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Country
Brazil
Once again, I am not an expert. And I am speaking from common sense. There was a table that I posted that showed that Dina had the last but one least difficult program in BD.
Once again, not sure why people aren't doing a table for her ADs to compare, which would fairly put her over anyone else, and that's where her real strength was. Anyone following gymnastics closely would agree that her BD was not close to what it once was.

What I know is that this Viner campaign will backfire over the next cycle, especially if Russia cannot come up with an overwhelmingly better gymnast than the rest of the field. Prior to 2016, neither Averina was even close to competing against the other girls for the three years they became senior, and suddenly the next year they're up there (people seem to forget that they are just a year younger than Kudryavtseva). This is not to say they haven't been worthy gymnasts. But in more than one instance they were favored over the other girls in World podiums, not to say World Cups and other small championships.

But I'm not a trusted expert, per your words, so I agree, let this discussion rest. Especially when people love to come with opinions they can't back up with knowledge. Common sense has nothing to do with the work of a judge. I'd know.
 

coldblueeyes

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Country
Brazil
Agree, the only aspect of judging that I semi-understand keeping 'secret' is the names of judges, but not releasing any type of protocols just looks shady.
Not sure where you got the information that the judges' names are kept secret, because they're not.

But protocols just don't exist in gymnastics, although I'm sure FIG is trying to invest in new ways to create some kind of protocol. Up until 2016 the judges still had judging sheets that were distributed to them, because there was a cap on the difficulty, but now that we don't have one, it's kind of impossible to really keep track of everything. Most of the group routines are judged with some "informal" sheets provided by each country, for example. However, you do not want to know what happens with those sheets, because I heard firsthand of them being doctored in international competitions to give some groups an advantage over others, and the judges cannot keep track of all the elements performed, so in the end, the benefit of the doubt is given to groups.

I know that the Olympics is the most-watched competition, so the judges would be instructed to keep a very close eye on everything, and we still had a lot of inquiries, but that's not the first time it happened. You could see the two superior judges analyzing a lot of the routines in real-time, which they're not even supposed to do, but they wanted to make sure that there was no problem in the judging. It was kind of the reason why Dina's ribbon score took such a long time to come, because they didn't want to let anything pass.
 

MUALover

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
I had a look at Dina's 2017 World Championship routines and I thought she was better in 2017 than 2021. She had more body difficulty in 2017 than in 2021. It must be her injury.

Dina is not as artistic as Kanaeva or Mamun. She couldn't do a lot of her body difficulty as before. She also had far less apparatus difficulty than Linoy - a lot of Linoy's throws are blind whereas Dina barely let her apparatus out of sight. I don't know how it justifies Dina winning an OGM - it's unfortunate that the judges gifted her a lot of scores in the past but then decided at the Olympics to take her to task.

I adore Dina and Arina because I think they're cute and they're artistic but at the end of the day, this is a sports competition.
 

Lulu39

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Not everyone has the mental strength to show something that they don't feel inside. Most of the time the smiles of the favorites who lose are fake smiles made for cameras. It isn't necessary respect, it's PR.

what an absolutely withering look in the group pic..
 

macy

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2011

what an absolutely withering look in the group pic..
if looks could kill!

if she wants to prove everyone wrong then coming back for 2024 is the way to do it.
 

coldblueeyes

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Country
Brazil
I doubt her body will allow it. But the current Russian field is definitely open for one of the twins, or both, to stay until Paris. Give them a few months, though. They already wanted to retire last year, and they're pretty much held by duct tape now.
 

Fallingwater

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Country
Bermuda
I watched a replay, from what I could see the Russian may have been a little unlucky but nice to see an Israeli lady win somthing. Had a search around, the scoring seems a bit opaque.. I guess it is what it is.

More importantly, I wonder about some of these rhythmic gymnasts and traction alopecia - they all seem to have very tight bun hairstyles. Maybe they only do their hair like this for a few hours per month during competitions.
 
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