Sharing Opinions on Jackson Debut FS2440 Boots

Sibelius

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Hi All,

My skater has been in her second pair of Jackson Debut Fusion Standard boots for almost a year now. Over the last couple of weeks she has been landing her early doubles (2s, 2t, 2Lo) more consistently and I've been researching and corresponding with a couple of techs regarding new boots. I thought I'd share what I've learned with the board.

I went into it thinking, well, getting to 2f and 2Lz soon, time for the next level up. What I've been told is that for skaters of my daughters size (she's 85 lbs., and I can't believe she's weighs that much) the Debut is more than enough boot to take her all the way up to 2A. This is the opinion of 3 very well respected skate techs and one custom boot maker. They've all said that if there's no sign of breakdown, no creasing etc. (not a hint) there's no need for a stiffer boot. While Jackson only rates them for single jumps, one of the techs has a small skater doing 2A and 3t in them. I know it's all relative and YMMV, but I wanted to share with the parents of small skaters at least, that these boots can go a long way. Our fitter told us today that she has another 6 months size wise left in them and as I said they'll carry her up to 2A as long as she's still small.

Now, she was of course disappointed she doesn't get new boots. I told her on the way home that once her coach certifies that her doubles are consistent enough to move to the next two we will get her a new pair of blades, as a reward if not out of necessity. She is still eying the Wilson Pattern 99 or the MK Phantom (7' rocker since her spins are meh. Maybe I should put an additional condition on the deal to cover better spins). I like the go slow approach of not getting new boots and different blades at the same time, and it's worked pretty well for her so far. So, we'll see how long it takes for coach to give the ok, hopefully soon so she can get at least 6 months out of the blade size. I did the math and it works out to only $2 a session for 6 months on a $500 blade, almost makes it easy to swallow. That's called rationalizing for those not in the know!

That's about it, again I just wanted to share our experience and the sentiments of some pro techs out there that they are indeed well and truly underrated as to how far they can take smaller skaters.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Hi All,

My skater has been in her second pair of Jackson Debut Fusion Standard boots for almost a year now. Over the last couple of weeks she has been landing her early doubles (2s, 2t, 2Lo) more consistently and I've been researching and corresponding with a couple of techs regarding new boots. I thought I'd share what I've learned with the board.

I went into it thinking, well, getting to 2f and 2Lz soon, time for the next level up. What I've been told is that for skaters of my daughters size (she's 85 lbs., and I can't believe she's weighs that much) the Debut is more than enough boot to take her all the way up to 2A. This is the opinion of 3 very well respected skate techs and one custom boot maker. They've all said that if there's no sign of breakdown, no creasing etc. (not a hint) there's no need for a stiffer boot. While Jackson only rates them for single jumps, one of the techs has a small skater doing 2A and 3t in them. I know it's all relative and YMMV, but I wanted to share with the parents of small skaters at least, that these boots can go a long way. Our fitter told us today that she has another 6 months size wise left in them and as I said they'll carry her up to 2A as long as she's still small.

Now, she was of course disappointed she doesn't get new boots. I told her on the way home that once her coach certifies that her doubles are consistent enough to move to the next two we will get her a new pair of blades, as a reward if not out of necessity. She is still eying the Wilson Pattern 99 or the MK Phantom (7' rocker since her spins are meh. Maybe I should put an additional condition on the deal to cover better spins). I like the go slow approach of not getting new boots and different blades at the same time, and it's worked pretty well for her so far. So, we'll see how long it takes for coach to give the ok, hopefully soon so she can get at least 6 months out of the blade size. I did the math and it works out to only $2 a session for 6 months on a $500 blade, almost makes it easy to swallow. That's called rationalizing for those not in the know!

That's about it, again I just wanted to share our experience and the sentiments of some pro techs out there that they are indeed well and truly underrated as to how far they can take smaller skaters.

Is it doable? yes. Is it advisable? depends.

PJ Hallam (British Skater) is able to land triple axel in debut's. Sam MCcallister (Irish) when working triples broke them down in 30minutes.
It really depends from person to person. The biggest advantage with not moving up is debut's are much lighter than jackson elites etc.
At the end of the day it depends on the skater - does s/he do deep edges? does s/he land flat footed? does s/he have a history of breaking down skates? do the skates fit? What is his/her weight?
every skater needs to ask those questions to themself. Usually I value two opinions: The coaches, and mine. Only the skater knows how it feels, and the skater can do different things in different boots as everybody is different.
I'm glad debut's worked for you, and best of luck to your daughter for the future!
(for reference, most people working on double axel has jackson elites or ice fly's combined with gold seal blades. See some of my other responses to threads if you want to know how I personally feel about those boots.)
 

Sibelius

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Is it doable? yes. Is it advisable? depends.

PJ Hallam (British Skater) is able to land triple axel in debut's. Sam MCcallister (Irish) when working triples broke them down in 30minutes.
It really depends from person to person. The biggest advantage with not moving up is debut's are much lighter than jackson elites etc.
At the end of the day it depends on the skater - does s/he do deep edges? does s/he land flat footed? does s/he have a history of breaking down skates? do the skates fit? What is his/her weight?
every skater needs to ask those questions to themself. Usually I value two opinions: The coaches, and mine. Only the skater knows how it feels, and the skater can do different things in different boots as everybody is different.
I'm glad debut's worked for you, and best of luck to your daughter for the future!
(for reference, most people working on double axel has jackson elites or ice fly's combined with gold seal blades. See some of my other responses to threads if you want to know how I personally feel about those boots.)

Pretty sure I said all that, hence the Y(our)M(ileage)M(ay)V(ary) acronym. And I said for small skaters, Mr. McAllister appears to be a 21 year old man and Mr. Hallam a 24 year old one, not 11 year old girls (or boys). And a good number of the skaters at our rink, and around the country and the world are doing double axel's and triples in the boots built by our fitter, so I think he knows what he's talking about.
 

Sunshine247

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
Hi All,

My skater has been in her second pair of Jackson Debut Fusion Standard boots for almost a year now. Over the last couple of weeks she has been landing her early doubles (2s, 2t, 2Lo) more consistently and I've been researching and corresponding with a couple of techs regarding new boots. I thought I'd share what I've learned with the board.

I went into it thinking, well, getting to 2f and 2Lz soon, time for the next level up. What I've been told is that for skaters of my daughters size (she's 85 lbs., and I can't believe she's weighs that much) the Debut is more than enough boot to take her all the way up to 2A. This is the opinion of 3 very well respected skate techs and one custom boot maker. They've all said that if there's no sign of breakdown, no creasing etc. (not a hint) there's no need for a stiffer boot. While Jackson only rates them for single jumps, one of the techs has a small skater doing 2A and 3t in them. I know it's all relative and YMMV, but I wanted to share with the parents of small skaters at least, that these boots can go a long way. Our fitter told us today that she has another 6 months size wise left in them and as I said they'll carry her up to 2A as long as she's still small.

Now, she was of course disappointed she doesn't get new boots. I told her on the way home that once her coach certifies that her doubles are consistent enough to move to the next two we will get her a new pair of blades, as a reward if not out of necessity. She is still eying the Wilson Pattern 99 or the MK Phantom (7' rocker since her spins are meh. Maybe I should put an additional condition on the deal to cover better spins). I like the go slow approach of not getting new boots and different blades at the same time, and it's worked pretty well for her so far. So, we'll see how long it takes for coach to give the ok, hopefully soon so she can get at least 6 months out of the blade size. I did the math and it works out to only $2 a session for 6 months on a $500 blade, almost makes it easy to swallow. That's called rationalizing for those not in the know!

That's about it, again I just wanted to share our experience and the sentiments of some pro techs out there that they are indeed well and truly underrated as to how far they can take smaller skaters.

Thanks for sharing this. My daughter is almost the same level and weight as yours but really prefers a softer boot. She was seriously under booted at first so she might have just developed a comfort level with less support. I don’t think I could move her to a stiffer boot any time soon anyway. But I am always concerned about what’s safest and most appropriate. She doesn’t even like her skates super tight at her ankles for now which drivers me crazy but she’s the one skating and making good progress so what do I know. Lol. Once we got the right fit in the boot (downsized dramatically as per Jackson skate tech) she’s been so comfortable and her edges and jumps both improved. She loves the debut fusion and it’s the stiffer model so likely we will stay with it as well next year. I’m just hoping we can continue with the same fusion line in the future now we have the right fit. I’m wondering if the Jackson fusion style will continue up the line to more advanced boots?
 

Sibelius

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Thanks for sharing this. My daughter is almost the same level and weight as yours but really prefers a softer boot. She was seriously under booted at first so she might have just developed a comfort level with less support. I don’t think I could move her to a stiffer boot any time soon anyway. But I am always concerned about what’s safest and most appropriate. She doesn’t even like her skates super tight at her ankles for now which drivers me crazy but she’s the one skating and making good progress so what do I know. Lol. Once we got the right fit in the boot (downsized dramatically as per Jackson skate tech) she’s been so comfortable and her edges and jumps both improved. She loves the debut fusion and it’s the stiffer model so likely we will stay with it as well next year. I’m just hoping we can continue with the same fusion line in the future now we have the right fit. I’m wondering if the Jackson fusion style will continue up the line to more advanced boots?

The Premiere Fusion is the highest level of the actual "Fusion" line from Jackson. What they've done however is made the last (foot shape) consistent now, so the next boot up from the Premiere, the Elite, is built on the same (Elite) last as the Debut and the Premiere so the fit should be similar. Also, with Jackson you can get the Fusion sole on any of their boots for a slight up-charge, $85 I think, and a bit of a wait. Of course Jackson has been changing their models so much over the last 2 years who knows what the future will be. I'm with you, I hope mine can stay in them for her career since they fit just about perfectly.

When we were fit for our second Debut the fitter actually said that it was too stiff for her, but since she was used to it we should stay with it. His preference would have been a softer boot, but the problem is the blades Jackson has on the lower level models aren't up to the quality of the boot, and most parents of skaters don't really want to buy the "kit" then have to buy a blade at the same time. They used to sell their old Freestyle and Competitor models as boot only options, but once the Fusion models came out that starts only at the Debut and above.

Mine is (was) the same way about tying her boots. Her coaches had fits, but we've gone to nylon laces that we get from Sp-Teri and they are easier for her to tie tighter and she's much better about it. I'd make sure her coach is ok with her boots tight enough, or she might find herself on the sidelines in a cast...
 

bostonskaterguy86

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 3, 2018
Country
United-States
I’m in the pre-Fusion men’s Debut (DJ2452) myself. I’m working on passing USFSA Basic 6 right now, but I have my waltz and half-flip. I’m 5’7” and 200lbs so I’m a heavyset guy.

My fitter suggested the Debut and Premiere as options, but advised strongly toward the Debut, as she was concerned that even at my weight I wouldn’t be able to break in the Premieres. When I first started breaking in the Debuts, even with the top hook undone it was a struggle to get a deep knee bend and any ankle flex. Thankfully, they’ve broken in and I’m doing fine in them now. There’s not even a hint of a crease in them yet, so I’m thinking they’ll carry me for a good while yet.

Anecdotally, it seems like most folks are having the experience that the Debut is stronger and more supportive than its stiffness rating suggests!

Also - not sure if anyone else noticed that Jackson posted a new fit guide on their social media accounts recently, which mentions a boot called the “Entré,” which seems to be slotted beneath the Debut in terms of stiffness. I messaged them on Instagram to ask if it was a new model, and they messaged back that more info would be coming soon. They really are revamping their lineup drastically, and frequently!
 

MCsAngel2

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 10, 2019
Country
Scotland
Well hopefully the Entre will be sold as a boot only, to fill the demand for lighter skaters who want less stiff boots but to put a blade of their choice on it.
 

bostonskaterguy86

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 3, 2018
Country
United-States
I’m pretty sure it is a boot! They had separate sections in the fit guide for boots and outfits, and the Entré was included in the boot section. I wonder if it will essentially be the “boot only” equivalent of the Freestyle in terms of stiffness.
 

Sibelius

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
I’m pretty sure it is a boot! They had separate sections in the fit guide for boots and outfits, and the Entré was included in the boot section. I wonder if it will essentially be the “boot only” equivalent of the Freestyle in terms of stiffness.

Thanks for that tidbit about the new boot. If they are gearing it towards lighter skaters doing singles-triples it's got to be boot only. I thought they made a mistake getting rid of the Freestyle as boot only. Guess they knew what was in the pipeline. It's also good to see that chart update on how far smaller skaters can go in the Debut. All the fitters agreed, now Jackson explicitly gives support for it.

From your moniker I assume you were fitted at Home Ice? I exchanged some messages with Aislinn re the Debut/Premiere question. Really a great resource you have there.
 

Sunshine247

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
The Premiere Fusion is the highest level of the actual "Fusion" line from Jackson. What they've done however is made the last (foot shape) consistent now, so the next boot up from the Premiere, the Elite, is built on the same (Elite) last as the Debut and the Premiere so the fit should be similar. Also, with Jackson you can get the Fusion sole on any of their boots for a slight up-charge, $85 I think, and a bit of a wait. Of course Jackson has been changing their models so much over the last 2 years who knows what the future will be. I'm with you, I hope mine can stay in them for her career since they fit just about perfectly.

When we were fit for our second Debut the fitter actually said that it was too stiff for her, but since she was used to it we should stay with it. His preference would have been a softer boot, but the problem is the blades Jackson has on the lower level models aren't up to the quality of the boot, and most parents of skaters don't really want to buy the "kit" then have to buy a blade at the same time. They used to sell their old Freestyle and Competitor models as boot only options, but once the Fusion models came out that starts only at the Debut and above.

Mine is (was) the same way about tying her boots. Her coaches had fits, but we've gone to nylon laces that we get from Sp-Teri and they are easier for her to tie tighter and she's much better about it. I'd make sure her coach is ok with her boots tight enough, or she might find herself on the sidelines in a cast...

She's learned for herself that she needs her skates tighter luckily. Thank goodness! I'm guessing her coach felt they were tight enough? But they've nicely broken in now so that might be a factor as well.

It's tough when they are making progress quickly but they haven't outgrown their skates yet. Or they have been working on something forever and it's time for new skates but you don't know if it's time to upgrade to stiffer boots. When parents and skaters share their experience it's really helpful! Thanks!
 
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