Spanish themes in pairs and ice dance before 2001-2?

eppen

Final Flight
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Spain
Dear all,

My pandemic entertainment has (so far) included a couple of skating related viewing projects. First, I went through ladies and men Top 5 in the Worlds from 1980 until last year. That got me interested in how the music tracks and programs were composed over the years and especially how quite a few pieces of music from Spain have become important parts of the war horse collection.

I have now tracked about a 1000 programs with Spanish music for single skaters since the late 1960s by watching videos available and browsing a massive number of skater Wikipedia pages. However, my list is seriously lacking in pairs and ice dance. Before 2001-2 you have to find a video of a program which is a time-consuming process - after that the program info starts getting collected in Wikipedia and it is possible to collect with relative ease. In the end, the time I can devote to my favorite hobby is limited (and I admit, am not super keen to watch a lot of pairs and ice dance).

But I would like to have a more complete list of Spanish themed programs for pairs and ice dance from the 1960s to about 2000. I am ultimately interested in documenting the development of creating programs and numbers are a part of that process – when does it start? how often is a certain type of music used? how is it used? which disciplines? etc. What will become of all of this I still don't know exactly, time will tell. But the single skater data is alrealy indicating certain trends and I would like to see whether they take place also in the other two disciplines.

Would you like to help me collect data? How many pairs/ice dance programs with Spanish themes you know from before 2001-2?

I am interested in all kinds of musical themes related to Spain. The big three are obviously Carmen, Malaguena and Concierto de Aranjuez. Espana Cani is probably the fourth most popular singular piece of music. Flamenco has become more and more popular starting from the 1990s and a great number of songs have been used. I have also included Minkus’s Don Quixote, Rossini’s The Barber of Seville, the soundtracks to The Mask of Zorro and Don Juan DeMarco, etc. Basically anything that sounds “Spanish” and gets used with the kind of movement that is associated with Spanish dance styles (and costumes). I am also interested if any of these was used as parts of medleys without specific themes in the way programs were mostly constructed before the 1990s.

The only limitation is that the original/short/rhythm dances from ice dance are not needed. The styles of music have been predetermined in them for each season, so almost every team gets to do a paso doble or flamenco etc. during their careers.

Below a list of what I already have which is pitifully short compared to what probably was. I will take programs from junior, senior, international, national, and if you have a link to a video, I will be super excited.

I hope you wish to share your knowledge with me – I will be eternally grateful for every bit of data!

Eppen

Ice Dance
Bestemianova & Bukin USSR 1984-5 Carmen
Duchesnay & Duchesnay CAN 1986-7 Malaguena
Anissina & Averbuch RUS 1991-2 The Barber of Seville
Winkler & Lohse GER 1992-3 Spanish medley
Anissina & Peizerat FRA 1993-4 Flamenco
Krylova & Ovsyannikov RUS 1994-5 Flamenco
Krylova & Ovsyannikov RUS 1997-8 Carmen
Ottaviani & Scali ITA 1999-2000 The Mask of Zorro
Weaver & Clavey USA 2001-2 Carmen
Grushina & Goncharov RUS 2001-2 Barcelona

Pairs
Gordeeva & Grinkov USSR SP 1987-8 Carmen
Gordeeva & Grinkov USSR SP 1988-9 The Barber of Seville
Mishkutionok & Dmitriev RUS SP 1991-2, 1993-4 Don Quixote
Gordeeva & Grinkov USSR FS 1993-4 Flamenco
Bilousivska & Morozov RUS FS 1997-8 Carmen
Beránková & Dlabola CZE FS 2000-1 The Mask of Zorro
Kawaguchi & Markuntsov JPN FS 2001-2 Carmen
 

Ic3Rabbit

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IDK if this helps, but Lang/Tchernyshev from USA used a combo of Sobre El Arco Iris by Prado, Ran Kan Kan from Puente, Sempre Nel Mio Cuor by Prado, and Mambo Caliente by Sandoval for their FD in 97-98 season. They also in 98-99 season used Adiós Nonino by Piazzolla for their FD.
 

Skatesocs

Final Flight
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This will be a very interesting thread to follow. But I wonder if you want Piazzolla to count? He was an Argentine composer, and I believe Adiós Nonino is an Argentine Tango.
 

Ic3Rabbit

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This will be a very interesting thread to follow. But I wonder if you want Piazzolla to count? He was an Argentine composer, and I believe Adiós Nonino is an Argentine Tango.
Yes, and Bizet who composed Carmen was French. There's got to be some leeway here, I say this as an ice dancer. Adios Nonino was also based on Piazzolla's previous piece "Nonino".
 

eppen

Final Flight
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Mar 28, 2006
Country
Spain
The Lang/Tchernyshev would go to Latin American music family rather than Spanish (as in Spain, Europe) . The same with tango.

The line can be difficult to draw sometimes though - like The Mask of Zorro which is set in California during the Spanish era (early 1800s). The music is used similarly to flamenco most often and indeed, it also sounds like it for the most part...

e
 

eppen

Final Flight
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Spain
Carmen was composed with Spanish music as inspriration and it is set in Spain. Malaguena was composed by a Cuban, Ernesto Lecuona, but has become very popular among Spanish musicians and audiences. Rossini who composed Barber of Seville was Italian etc. (and there the Spanishness is more in the setting than anything else). Minkus was hardly Spanish, but used the styles in the ballet. Man of La Mancha is by a couple of Americans but still themed Spanish.

E
 

Skatesocs

Final Flight
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Yes, and Bizet who composed Carmen was French.
The Lang/Tchernyshev would go to Latin American music family rather than Spanish (as in Spain, Europe) . The same with tango.
Yep, that's all I meant to point out. Argentine Tango is Latin American music (with the bonus of an Argentine composer). Bizet is French, but Carmen is set in Spain. I agree, @Ic3Rabbit , though that there could be leeway, and it depends on what @eppen wants from us. :)
 

eppen

Final Flight
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Spain
I at least draw a line between Latin American and European styles! Tango, mambo, salsa, samba, chacha etc. are from the New World. The two are not very commonly combined, though. Like Nathan's new SP with Isaac Albeniz's Asturias (to me quite Spanish) and a Mexican mariachi song make a little odd bedfellows for me. Tango gets sometimes put together with paso doble/flamenco, but not very often.

The origin of the composer/performer does not really matter that much, it is the style of music and partly how it is used. Thinking of the flamenco pieces commonly used, many of them are by Didylya who is from Belarus, Jesse Cook is another favorite, in the 1990s Ottmar Liebert was much loved in flamenco programs.

E
 

Skatesocs

Final Flight
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I at least draw a line between Latin American and European styles! Tango, mambo, salsa, samba, chacha etc.
I agree. The music style would matter to me first and foremost.

The origin of the composer/performer does not really matter that much, it is the style of music and partly how it is used.
I agree here too, though I would at least want to look at who composed it and read up on the actual piece so I can differentiate something that is say "Spanish inflected" vs "Spanish". Or "set in Spain" as Don Quixote or Carmen. But again, that's pedantry.
 

Ic3Rabbit

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From experience, one would be better off compiling info on OD where the dancers/coaches/music editor were forced to use Spanish derived music style over a FD where they are just putting together whatever sounds good or makes ends meet and will have a larger chance of just being a major hodge podge of Latin styles and not strictly Spanish.
JMHO.
 

eppen

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I have looked at the back stories of most pieces. Sometimes it is very clear, like Salvador Bacarisse or Manuel De Falla or Isaac Albeniz, all Spanish born composers and also used local styles as inspriration to their music. And all have been used in FS in Spanish themed programs. But then again, Nikolay Rimsky-Korsakov's Capriccio Espagnol sound pretty similar to my ear...

But equally many times, the background does not really matter. Fiesta Flamenca by Monty Kelly and lots of Spanish styles songs recorded by Stanley Black's orchestra were go-to things in the early days and both still get used occasionally. Not to mention Nyah from Mission Impossible OST by Hans Zimmer and versions of it... Firedance from Riverdance by Bill Whelan... Brian Setzer's rockier version of Malaguena (which was used in Roberto Rodriguez's movie Once Upon a Time in Mexico!) has been used quite successfully for flamenco programs. Pepe Romero and Vicente Amigo are almost the Spanish exceptions to the rule in the flamenco side.

As I said earlier, Latin styles and Spanish are suprisingly rarely combined. Well, at least in the 2000s and before that with single skaters. Carmen is only very rarely put together with anything else. Malaguena might be combined with another Spanish piece, like Aranjuez or just use different versions of it. The same with Aranjuez.

I could imagine different styles of ballroom might be used, like paso doble and tango, which would combine Latin with Spanish, but it does not happen very commonly - maybe in the 1970s and 1980s ice dance before everyone started doing themed programs? In the 1980s the soundtracks for programs rarely made any stylistic sense anyway (Brian Orser's FS 1985-7 included Aranjuez, a bit from the Ladyhawke OST, The Razor's Edge and Shostakovich, The Gadfly Suite as well as something I have been unable to identify).

E
 

skylark

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Gordeeva & Grinkov's 1993-94 Flamenco was their SP, not their FS.
 

eppen

Final Flight
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Spain

The first two are gold! Thank you!

Tangos I still put in the Latin American category, but the second one shows an interesting mix of costume and dance style - the guy is clearly wearing a bull fighter outfit which I don't associate with tango at all at any level...

How about Torvill and Dean's wonderful Paso Doble Original Dance in 1984? The programme as such was very Spanish with Dean playing a toreador and Torvill his cape!

It is a classic (one that even I have seen), but as OD/RD/etc. have a set musical style, am not really interested in these - everyone has to find the music style so it is not the kind of choice I am thinking of. If the dance teams do Spanish music in the free, on the other hand, yes please.

What surprises me here a little bit is what seems to get regarded as "Spanish". Language is certainly the same (or sameish) between Old and New World Spanish speaking cultures, but the music and dance styles are quite different. Those rhythms could not have been born on this side of the Atlantic... Or is this just my Old World point of view??

It is kind of funny that tango happens to be a very important music and dance style here in my native Finland - a place about as far away from its South American origins as possible in every possible way. But we have (had?) a thriving culture of social dancing and tango has been an integral part of it (it looks and sounds a little different from the Argentinian versions, though: here danced as a competition style dance and here La Cumparsita sung in Finnish, Olavi Virta from the 1950s and finally, at an open air dance hall). The origns of the dance is frequently discussed and so, there is really no way, a Finn could regard tango as anything Spanish :biggrin:

But I do hope you still walk down the memory lane on those pairs and ice dance programs! That surely cannot be all!

E
 

Merry

Spectator
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
I'm not sure if all of these fit your definition for Spanish music, but some possibilities maybe:

Shen & Zhao, 1997-1998 SP Zigeunerweisen
Abitbol & Bernadis, 1998-1999,1999-2000 SP, El Conquistador
Shishkova & Naumov, 1995-1996,1997-1998 FS, Don Quixote
Navka & Gezolian, 1993-1994 FD, Paso Doble (from Strictly Ballroom)
Valova & Vasiliev, 1982-1983, SP, Carmen (I can't find an online video of this)
Blumberg & Seibert, 1979-1980, FD, Malaguena
 

eppen

Final Flight
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Uuuu, thanks so much Merry! Esp. the Blumberg/Seibert was fun to watch! Shen & Zhao's music is actually referring to Eastern European gypsy/romani music tradition despite their Spanishy costumes. And it was interesting to see El Conquistador that early in the pairs because it appears in singles about a decade later.

E
 

Merry

Spectator
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Glad they work - I had fun poking around youtube chasing faint memories of "old" programs.

The composer for the Shen and Zhao piece is Spanish - it wasn't only the costumes :) Is there no gitano (spanish gypsy) music tradition? That was the one I was least sure about.

I think El Conquistador may have been written for Abitbol and Bernadis although it's just a guess. They used several songs by Maxime Rodriguez around that time, and he included it on an album in 2000 called "Symphonie sur Glace" with the subtitle "Les plus belles musiques originales du patinage".
 
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