Spin Competition: would that work?

[Layback11]

After carefully monitoring the results of the Freezer Aerial Challenge jump event at the Broadmoor open, I finally understand how it works, and that got me thinking: "Would a spinning-only version work?" The format I came up with was this:

FIRST ROUND

Men must complete the following elements:

One flying spin including at least four positions (8 revs per position)
One sit spin with minimum of one position change and at least two changes of foot or edge (no flying entry, 8 or more revs per position)
One flying camel spin with a change of edge or direction OR death drop (8 revs or more per foot)
One upright combination spin with a minimum of two position changes and a change of foot (8 revs per position)

Ladies must complete the following elements:

One sit combination spin with two or more changes of position (8 revs per)
One flying camel with a change of edge or direction OR a death drop (8 revs per)
One layback spin with a position change to either a haircutter or Biellman-or both (8 revs per)
One upright combination spin with at least 3 positions (8 revs per)

SECOND ROUND

Men must complete the following elements:

One death drop
One spin of choice with a change of direction
One layback, sideways-leaning or Biellman spin
One flying sit spin with a change of edge and at least three positions

Ladies must complete the following elements:

One upright combination spin with an overhead variation (such as biellman, I-spin, Y-spin, Adelina's sideways Biellman, etc)
One flying camel spin with an inverted camel variation
One flying sit spin with three position changes
One opposite-direction layback

FINAL

Men must complete the following elements:

One flying upright spin
One camel spin with two position changes and a change of direction
One a-frame spin (better known as the "butt spin")
One upright combination with four of the following features: blur scratch spin, blur back scratch spin, crossfoot spin, y-spin, layback spin, Biellman spin, or original variation (must be entirely new variation created by the skater and coach)

Ladies must complete the following elements:

One donut spin
One sideways or one-handed Biellman
One continuous illusion spin (must be at least 8 rotations)
One haircutter layback with free leg extended parallel to the ice (AKA pearl spin)


Elimination works the same way as with Freezer: first round is invited skaters, then narrowed down to the top five and one skater who had a bye, then the top three in the last round.

What do you think? Would that work?

 

[gkelly]

Yes, a spin competition can work. They're pretty common at club competitions. They only need half the ice surface, so it's possible to run separate events for different levels, or for men and women, at the same time on oppsite ends of the ice.

Often non-elite skaters who are better at spinning than at jumping (or even than at skating) will enter and place well. Sexes can be combined to allow a single boy who enters at a given level to have other skaters to compete against.

It would be possible to set up an elimination structure as you describe, if there were to be a championship attracting lots of entrants.

I do question some of your suggested requirements, though.

In the first place, there has never been a tradition in short programs or in spin competitions of requiring exactly what features or variations every skater is required to demonstrate. Usually the basic types of spins are required to ensure some variety, and then skaters are free to showcase their own variations. If the event is judged by IJS, then there would be a tech panel to determine levels based on which features each individual skater executed successfully.

Some of the features you require are dependent on body type and it would be inappropriate to require them of all skaters who enter, especially in an initial round. You might end up with no one coming close to meeting the requirements.

Same with some of the combinations of features required in the same spin. E.g., for the men's first round you say "One flying spin including at least four positions (8 revs per position)." So you're talking about a flying combination spin with at least 32 revolutions as the very first requirement. I think you would eliminate 99% of possible entrants right there -- especially if you don't allow for a change of foot (you don't say one way or another).

As a point of nomenclature, by the way, "combination spin" is used to mean that there are at least two different categories of position (upright, sit, or camel -- layback counts as a variation of upright for that purpose). So there's no such thing as a "combination upright spin" or "combination sit spin." There can be an upright spin or sitspin with X number of position variations, if that's what you mean.

Broadmoor Open offered spin competition events (see the Broadmoor Open Announcement link at http://www.broadmoorskatingclub.com/BOpen1.html). This year's spin requirement for the top levels were:

Spins may be joined with appropriate connecting moves and will be skated on 1/2 ice. There will be a 1-1/2 min time limit & no music. Spins must be skated exactly as stated, but may be performed in any order....

Junior 1:30 max.
Flying sit spin or flying reverse sit spin (6)
Ladies -- layback spin (6); men - cross-foot spin (6)
Combination spin -- with change of foot & utilizing all three positions (2 per position & 5 per foot)

Senior 1:30 max.
Flying spin of choice (6)
Solo spin of choice (6) -- may not fly
Combination spin -- with change of foot & utilizing all three positions (2 per position & 5 per foot)

I.e., similar to SP requirements but the non-flying solo spin has a little more flexibility for seniors and a different requirement for the junior men.

The numbers of revolutions in parentheses are minimums. More revolutions, including the 8 revolutions in position feature, and difficult variations would contribute to the difficulty and quality that judges reward that skater for. If it were judged by IJS, they would contribute to the base value for higher levels and also to the GOE.


For comparison, an adult competition that I often enter had the following requirements last year for the Masters (passed intermediate tests) level spin event:
*Flying camel spin, variations optional
*Back sit spin with edge entry, variations optional
*Open combination spin

Now, if we were inventing an elite-level spin championships, we might want to demand certain skills/variations/features in the later rounds that we would expect of all highly skilled spinners, regardless of body type. To me, that could include requirements such as change of edge in back camel or (any?) forward spin, change of direction, holding the same position for not just 8 revolutions but for as many as possible with no changes, combination spin or upright spin or sitspin with at least three changes of foot, etc.

I would not require any specific position variations especially where flexibility is involved. This is a spinning contest, not a flexibility contest. But of course if skaters do execute difficult variations and execute them well, there should be mechanisms in the scoring to reward them.

 

[Weathergal]

gkelly, I'm so glad to read your response. I had many of the same reactions, especially about things like the Biellman requirements Layback11 mentioned, and that flexibility seemed emphasized too much in the spinning contest. I also question why you'd want to encourage the "butt spin," particularly in the finals as it is such an ugly position and I don't believe as difficult as some of the requirements in the earlier rounds.

I would say that if there were a World Championship, the inaugural event would have to be held in Switzerland with Lucinda Ruh and Stephane Lambiel as judges. (I'd add Denise Biellman, too, for even without her trademark spin, she was a great spinner.)

 

[Layback11]

I would say that if there were a World Championship, the inaugural event would have to be held in Switzerland with Lucinda Ruh and Stephane Lambiel as judges. (I'd add Denise Biellman, too, for even without her trademark spin, she was a great spinner.)

Me likey!

On the butt spin: I was running out of ideas... Same with the Biellman requirements. And because I don't really understand how levels work, the 8 revs thing was simply a misunderstanding of the rules-thanks for pointing it out! (I'm a skater myself and I consider myself lucky if I get 12 revs on an easy spin, so that probably should've been an indication!)

 

[gkelly]

I'd suggest something like

FIRST ROUND
Short program requirements, or the Broadmoor senior spin requirements, which would work for both sexes
(could be judged by IJS)

SECOND ROUND
*Forward or backward camel spin to be scored on number of revolutions in a single position as well as on quality
*Upright spin with at least 2-3 changes of foot, change of direction either required or specifically rewarded in the scoring
*Forward flying sitspin, air position variations and change of edge (min. 2 revolutions on each) encouraged/rewarded

In other years the specified basic positions and requirements for the solo, change-foot, and flying spin could be rotated.

If a tech panel is used, they would need to be given specific guidelines for these requirements, which don't necessarily match IJS program rules.

FINAL ROUND
*Endless combination spin: Unlimited changes of foot, unlimited variations including flying entry or jump on same foot or at change of foot rewarded as features/difficulty

If a tech panel is used, start with the base value of CCoSpB and each confirmed feature would add 0.5, no maximum.

Scoring stops when the skater exits on a flowing edge, stops still/stops rotating or remains on two feet for more than 1(?) second (not counting cross-foot spin), or changes center by more than 3 feet at any change of foot.

If IJS is not used, the referee could time the beginning of the spin and the point at which the skater officially stops spinning, and then the duration of the spin could be included in the score along with the judges' evaluation of difficulty and quality.

 

[MalAssada]

I'd prefer to see a two step* competition: Jumps, then spins.

JUMPS
The 5 triples performed both by men and ladies (and 3A for men, no need of falls because of quads!). Take off, edges, air position, height, ice coverage and landing would make up a score.

SPINS
3 spins: Layback, camel and flying spin by the rules: centralization of spins, speed, difficult position, time of such spin, entry for the flying one...

Both Jumps and Spins could start with a 10.0 score and be deducted by each mistake. Men and ladies would be able to compete against each other, men winning jumps and ladies winning spins. The final result would be interesting

 

[witcher]

It won't work, because Julia is gonna win every competition!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNntpg0pGQI

"Appreciating Skating’s Spins, the Art Behind the Sport"
http://tinyurl.com/q5zgur4