Taiwan to get Four Continents again in 2016!

[OS]

As a Taiwanese, I know noidont's post, albeit somewhat exaggerated and not very politically correct, wasn't too far off from the truth regarding the country's affection for all things Japanese and cutsy, particularly among the younger generation. I also find Asian countries in general are much more welcoming toward activities that are otherwise considered by the populater western culture as "feminine". Figure skating there is deemed more as a "high art" rather than just a sport for the gays.

Hahaha...You are a Taiwanese?! Well as another 'Taiwanese' myself I disagree with you completely . I am honestly surprised you have no problem with the Taiwanese culture being labelled Japanized or being referred having 'rather feminine culture' is actually deeply insulting consider the country's history of being subservient to the Japanese ruling, the current political climate (Diaoyudao) and stigma with such labels already exist with this sport. Why not ask Jack Gallagher of the Japan Times to adapt this term 'feminine culture' sport for his next figure skating article on Hanyu and see what happens?! Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Japanese culture tremendously, happen to worships Miyasaki (visted his museum last summer in Tokyo, also visited Kyoto, Osaka, and my British friend actually created one of the first Miysaki website in English), but I would hardly consider myself as Japanized. Likewise, Taiwan like the rest of Asia (including Japan) has gone through a Korean wave more than a decade now, I bet if you are to label someone to their face being Koreanized, someone will likely chuck a Samsung phone to your head or at least protest a little.

As for the term feminine culture of course it can be interpret as 'high culture', but why not just call it that, consider the stigma of 'feminine' associated with this sport has already breed a stereotype and now a cliche. So why make it an exception? How did you think the SNL sketch came about, and while there are those who are amused but there are equally those find it of poor taste? So clearly there are multiple meaning to the word that can be interpreted in a number of ways. When an uninformed public are likely to accept it without being challenged, then it simply falls into misinformation. There are reasons why semantics are important in all usages of communication, especially concern something as sensitive as one's culture and history. You can argue both ways, multiple ways. I have said my part to readdress the board, that's it, it is nothing personal, unlike:

Finally, intelligent people :agree:, I love them

If you are truly intelligent you'd understand why balanced and opposing views are equally important and therefore should all be welcomed on an international discussion board. :sarcasm:

 

[CarneAsada]

As a third person in this thread with Taiwanese relatives, I'd just like to say that with the food scandal in 2011 (?), it is quite possible that many people in Taiwan who drank sports drinks or bubble tea tainted with the endocrine disruptor DEHP have been "feminized". I have never lived in Taiwan so I can't comment firsthand on how "Japanized" modern Taiwan is, but they do have lots of remnants from Japanese rule and many Taiwanese feel more hostility to mainland China than they do to Japan (to my mainland dad's dismay).

 

[cjuarez]

I just hope they will have better coverage!!

 

[Gigi13]

I just hope they will have better coverage!!

Same here. Finding working live streams from Taipei is a hassle

 

[Barb]

If you are truly intelligent you'd understand why balanced and opposing views are equally important and therefore should all be welcomed on an international discussion board. :sarcasm:

I can to say exactly the same for you :sarcasm:

 

[OS]

As a third person in this thread with Taiwanese relatives, I'd just like to say that with the food scandal in 2011 (?), it is quite possible that many people in Taiwan who drank sports drinks or bubble tea tainted with the endocrine disruptor DEHP have been "feminized". I have never lived in Taiwan so I can't comment firsthand on how "Japanized" modern Taiwan is, but they do have lots of remnants from Japanese rule and many Taiwanese feel more hostility to mainland China than they do to Japan (to my mainland dad's dismay).

Please comfort your dad and to assure him these opinions are in the minority,there are a lot of subversive geopolitics interests at play (Taiwan, Japan, China, US) and results certain news being more sensationalized than they actually are. I consider Taiwan very proud of its Chinese heritage (The passport still state Republic of China for example, not Taiwan, not Chinese Taipei) but must be on its own terms. People just want peace, freedom and stability.

The free coverage will always be a problem as long as there are signed agreement with paid channels already (Icenetwork, Universal, Taiwanese sport cable channels by subscription). Unless ISU demand this to be provided for free, we are at the mercy of good samaritans.

I can to say exactly the same for you :sarcasm:

What is your understanding of opposing view?

 

[BusyMom]

As a third person in this thread with Taiwanese relatives, I'd just like to say that with the food scandal in 2011 (?), it is quite possible that many people in Taiwan who drank sports drinks or bubble tea tainted with the endocrine disruptor DEHP have been "feminized". I have never lived in Taiwan so I can't comment firsthand on how "Japanized" modern Taiwan is, but they do have lots of remnants from Japanese rule and many Taiwanese feel more hostility to mainland China than they do to Japan (to my mainland dad's dismay).

Since you mentioned the bubble tea, I wonder why they aren't use the same PR wonder to market the FS. The bubble tea is such a big hits around Asia plus some parts of Europe. Even the Japanese loves the bubble tea. After all these years, the popularity is showing no sign of declination.

Taiwan has the financial capacities to host such an event, no doubt. Taipei is such a beautiful capital with all those hills and picturesque little houses. But let's face it, it isn't fair to elite skaters to compete with only a handful of spectators. No one from north America ever complain about traveling to NHK. They actually love the NHK.

 

[phaeljones]

I was reading through communications published by the ISU and it seems that Chinese Taipei is hosting the Four Continents again.
. . .

the ISU has given the host of the 2016 competition back to Taiwan!

. . .

. . . but for the sake of promoting skating, the ISU need to make better decisions and venture out.

What are your thoughts?

At least, ISU did not give them 4CC in another Olympic year. I am not sure what options ISU had, so it may have made the best decision possible. Nevertheless, if the ISU wants Figure Skating to be taken seriously as a sport, it needs to concern itself with making 4CC always a well-attended and well-watched event. Hope ISU has a plan.

 

[OS]

Since you mentioned the bubble tea, I wonder why they aren't use the same PR wonder to market the FS. The bubble tea is such a big hits around Asia plus some parts of Europe. Even the Japanese loves the bubble tea. After all these years, the popularity is showing no sign of declination.

Taiwan has the financial capacities to host such an event, no doubt. Taipei is such a beautiful capital with all those hills and picturesque little houses. But let's face it, it isn't fair to elite skaters to compete with only a handful of spectators. No one from north America ever complain about traveling to NHK. They actually love the NHK.

Yeah I agree with you about the crowds, maybe the organizer can consider a more suitable venue next time, or consider import school children to promote figure skating and awareness.

The Taipei arena is a massive over kill for a competition of this size (15k capacity), even bigger than the Sochi Olympic rink (12k capacity), waste of resources as well. Something like the European Championship rink like at Zagreb, seems a nice appropriate size, not bigger than 6500 capacity. More intimate and better vibe for the skaters, and I am sure a bunch of excited delightful children (must have good manners and preferably being taught on what is a spin, a spiral, a 3lutz, 3axel etc..) can boost the performance of any skater.

 

[CarneAsada]

At least, ISU did not give them 4CC in another Olympic year. I am not sure what options ISU had, so it may have made the best decision possible. Nevertheless, if the ISU wants Figure Skating to be taken seriously as a sport, it needs to concern itself with making 4CC always a well-attended and well-watched event. Hope ISU has a plan.

It's not Taiwan's fault the event was poorly attended. The event was scheduled far too close to the Olympics, so none of the top pairs were there and the top singles skaters in the LP were Takahiko Kozuka and Kanako Murakami (nothing against them but neither one draws a crowd like Mao or Dai). What would you expect? 4CC was held in the exact same location in 2011 and didn't have problems with attendance as far as I remember.

Please comfort your dad and to assure him these opinions are in the minority,there are a lot of subversive geopolitics interests at play (Taiwan, Japan, China, US) and results certain news being more sensationalized than they actually are. I consider Taiwan very proud of its Chinese heritage (The passport still state Republic of China for example, not Taiwan, not Chinese Taipei) but must be on its own terms. People just want peace, freedom and stability.

I do get the feeling that a lot of the political issues are overblown. The last time I heard my cousins say anything about it, they didn't really care much, and polls indicate most Taiwanese don't really mind the political status quo. Glad my post amused you "in the good way", btw.

 

[phaeljones]

It's not Taiwan's fault the event was poorly attended. The event was scheduled far too close to the Olympics, so none of the top pairs were there and the top singles skaters in the LP were Takahiko Kozuka and Kanako Murakami (nothing against them but neither one draws a crowd like Mao or Dai). What would you expect? 4CC was held in the exact same location in 2011 and didn't have problems with attendance as far as I remember.

I should spell out my points more literally than inferentially. Inferential writing can create ambiguity.

I agree with much of what you write. That was my point. Let me say it another way: To give them the games in the next Olympic year (ie 2018) would neither be fair nor wise because that would simply be a repeat occurrence of what happened this year, ie zero attendance.

However, if you are inferring that that kind of dismal attendance in Taipei (looking at the shorts, the arena was basically empty . . . we are talking rock bottom attendance here . . . basically zero attendance) could not have been bettered somewhere else THIS YEAR, I beg to differ. (It certainly could not have been worse.) And as you asked me a question (What did you expect?), yes what happened is what I expected and what anyone and everyone should have expected and probably did expect. (As your question is rhetorical, you too expected it, I gather.)

Taipei came through and met everyone's expectation, but no one should be proud of the accomplishment, especially the ISU who orchestrated it. And no one should blame Tapei for what happened. It is the ISU's fault for the way, the place and the time that it was set up.

Would it not have been better this year to put the event in a place where there was less chance of total failure rather than a place where total failure (in attendance and interest) was a total certainty? It may not have been possible, but hopefully the lesson has been learned by ISU and they work out matters (regarding location, participation and timing) so that it will not happen again.

Really, the ISU needs to work out something better in an Olympic year so that failure is not so inevitable. At least one aspect of that (and there are several) is the location of the event. A location in a place like Tapei for 4CC a few weeks before the Olympics only adds to the perfection of the perfect storm for failure.

 

[shine]

Please comfort your dad and to assure him these opinions are in the minority,there are a lot of subversive geopolitics interests at play (Taiwan, Japan, China, US) and results certain news being more sensationalized than they actually are. I consider Taiwan very proud of its Chinese heritage (The passport still state Republic of China for example, not Taiwan, not Chinese Taipei) but must be on its own terms. People just want peace, freedom and stability.

My dear, I think you may be stuck in the 80s. When was the last time you heard a Taiwanese person refer to him/herself as "Chinese", especially anyone born in the 80's or later? Did you miss the whole era when the government was doing everything it could to de-Chinalize itself starting in the late 90s with Lee's re-election, and did it quite successfully? Everytime I look at my passport I wonder why they haven't completely got rid of the name the "Republic of China" and just call it Taiwan. On October 10th every year, all the celebratory posts I see on Facebook from my Taiwanese friends all wish TAIWAN a happy birthday, not the Republic of China, as unfactual as it is. You've also gotta be pretty out of the loop to not even notice that the general public is pretty enamoured with all things Japanese, starting from Sanrio products, food, fashion, to big or small household items. How many times have you heard people mention something having a Japanese brand or of Japanese origin to automatically be suggesting that it's good by default? Manga has long been part of the Taiwanese pop culture, and I know more than a few people who know the Japanese TV dramas more than they know their own. When was the last time you were in Taiwan? Compared to Korean and China, the other two Asian countries who suffered greatly during the Japanese invasion in WWII, oh yeah, I would say Taiwan EMBRACES and LOOKS UP to Japan in a way that I don't know existed between any other two countries. Diaoyutai seems to be the only thing that holds Taiwan back a little. But compared to the efforts from the Chinese government and the emotions expressed by the mainlanders, who has a much less legitimate claim over the island, Taiwan's effort seems so ironcially tame.

As for the term feminine culture of course it can be interpret as 'high culture', but why not just call it that, consider the stigma of 'feminine' associated with this sport has already breed a stereotype and now a cliche.

I don't know what you are trying to say here. I'm actually commending Taiwan and other Asian countries for their acceptance and welcoming of a sport that would otherwise be considered as femine by the popular western culture. It's so much well respected there than it is in the US, for example.

 

[OS]

My dear, I think you may be stuck in the 80s. When was the last time you heard a Taiwanese person refer to him/herself as "Chinese", especially anyone born in the 80's or later? Did you miss the whole era when the government was doing everything it could to de-Chinalize itself starting in the late 90s with Lee's re-election, and did it quite successfully? Everytime I look at my passport I wonder why they haven't completely got rid of the name the "Republic of China" and just call it Taiwan.

As a matter infact, I was there last year for 3 months, how about you? Do you even vote?

You pretty much sums up that it is YOU who ARE in out of touch with reality by wondering why they haven't got rid of the name 'Republic of China'.

You DO realize history exist before the 80s,90s, and astonishingly even after 2000?! That the democratic country of Taiwan has infact voted for the KMT (Chinese Nationalist party) to be in power, and that therefore it is perfectly insulting to the majority of the country who voted for them that shares their believes to be labelled Japanised contrary to your very own personal opinion. Taiwan is a capitalist country with free reigning economy where people celebrate consumerism by buying high quality goods, and welcomes cultural goods of all sorts not just Japanese, it has nothing to do with particular national affiliation. Just because majority of the world eat Chinese takeaways, buy Chinese goods from everywhere and like the Hollywood wirefus, the Jackie Chans, like their iPhones (made by Taiwanese company in China) doesn't make them Chinarized either. It is idiotic and too simplistic in thinking. Why do you think President Lee is widely disrespected and known not to be trusted by much of the Taiwan population because of his Japanese education (where Japanese colonial ruling means it is virtually impossible not to have a Japanese education through their imperialist ruling) It is also the difference between why you can't retrieve Japanese YEN out of a cash machine in Taiwan, but you CAN with Chinese RMB based on the reality of TODAY! Like it or not, it is the way the world is going. To label something wrong there's no ifs or buts, it is just factually wrong. To make it simple, why don't you or anyone just call up any local Taiwan consulate and ask this very question: 'Do you think it is insulting to label Taiwan as Japanised?'

As for why no one will call themselves Chinese, why don't you learn bit more about geopolitics history and the importance of maintain 'status quo' Taiwan was forced not able to declare itself as 'Republic of China' internationally (due to one China policy) as oppose to chose not to, and ends up only able to refer itself as Taiwan just so to maintain face saving as well knee jerk reaction from someone constantly threaten them with military force, the only way out is break away through non affiliation, a kink the DPP readily exploited with their political rhetoric. It comes down to pure semantics where different issues of ethnicity, politics and nationalism became muddled and dumbed down in the name of convenient propaganda rhetoric that has little shared implicit meaning and devoid of context. BTW I have met Pres. Chen and sums up within half an hour that he is full of crap and not to be trusted. Awful politician of the worst sort. Unsurprisingly, the country suffered enormously and became stagnant under his ruling.

Anyway I don't want to pollute the board with politics but I thought it is important to set the fact straight, especially next time anyone visit 4CC in Taiwan please don't offend the host country by label them Japanised. Likewise, I think it will also be equally sensible not to label this sport as feminized if it is to take itself seriously.

 

[CarneAsada]

At least we no longer have to wonder whether os168 is "green" or "blue" after this last post - it would have made my dad proud. I wonder if we will next hear about retaking the mainland (which of course includes Outer Mongolia and Tibet, rightful possessions of the Republic of China ). And FYI shine & os168 the correct term is "de-Sinicize" or "Taiwanise" .

 

[WeakAnkles]

Maybe they should start GIVING away tickets now...

 

[GF2445]

Maybe they should start GIVING away tickets now...

So True. If they start now, maybe they will be able to fill the whole arena when 2016 rolls along.

 

[Ryan O]

neither 4cc in Colorado Springs 2012 was very crowded, and in Taipei at least they give the tickets free and I think Korea would be great for another 4cc.
I was more surprised and dissapointed with Cup of Russia, Sochi is so close and Russia have so many good skaters, so I would thought people were excited in Russia, but no. Skate America 2013 was full with japanese people, so american people are not very interesed in FS. The only good countries for 4cc are Japan and Canada, but if Taiwan can absorb the costs of a competition like that it is ok, and with big names people will go, when Mao was in 4cc in Taiwan japanese people went there.

But a competition in Colorado Springs or elsewhere in America (or in Canada) is likely to be better attended than in Taipei this year, surely? There was hardly anyone in the Taipei audience. It only seemed to be a few dozen people. Most skating events that I've attended in Canada or America or watched on television have always had more people than that.

Or for the years that it needs to be on the Asian continent, why not Japan? Japanese skating fans are great and keep up with not only their own skaters, but those here in Canada and other countries as well. I've seen how many letters our Canadian skaters receive from Japan.

I just don't get why the ISU thinks it can be encouraging to the skaters to be in an arena like Taipei where there is hardly anyone in the audience! I don't get the logic of it.