Thankful for Tanith

CoyoteChris

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
As an old US Ice dance fan, I am thankful that Tanith was allowed to compete for the US because of her "extraordinary ability"

Now I need a smart person to explain this to me.

Kind of old news now , but it was part of a bigger article about green card rejections....From the WSJ, Thursday, Dec 12th,

Slight paraphrase. Ms. Christina Carreira, was denied a green card and sued the US Citizenship and Immigration Service (USCIS) to get a green card. The Canadian was then turned down for the green card as her 2018 World Jr. Ice Dance silver medal "didn't constitute an internationally recognized prize as it could only have been won by a participant of that competition.

Perhaps you can explain that statement to me. Is that not true of any any medal?????
 

CaroLiza_fan

EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA
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Hang on - Christina is Canadian?! And her first language is French?! :confused:

Can't say I have ever read up much about Christina (I was more interested in Anthony, due to his parentage). But because of her surname, I always assumed she was from America's Hispanic community. And that Spanish would be her first language.

But I'm with you - that statement is just bizzare. And very worrying. Because if that is the reasoning that the immigration services are using across the board, then nobody at all with "extraordinary ability" will get the pass.

It begs the question - what's the status of Anthony? Have Marina and Sergei got the right paperwork to prevent Anthony from ending up in a similar predicament?

Yet more evidence why this whole having to represent a country thing should be done away with. As I keep saying, it should be about representing yourself, your family, your coach, your club, your rink. The country bit should only be a way of describing where you come from.

CaroLiza_fan
 

hanyuufan5

❅*:・。.✨
Medalist
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I can't see the whole article, but it looks like they said a Japanese men's gymnast hadn't shown that he'd won a major internationally recognized prize, not Christina. I didn't see anything about only being winnable by a participant of the competition, but I could have missed it.

About the gymnast, that sounds like it could mean either a) he didn't declare the exact name of a major competition on the form or b) the competitions he's been in aren't considered "major" and "internationally recognized" by the government.

Perhaps the government is being that rigid that they don't consider a silver medal at Junior Worlds a major international prize? It wouldn't surprise me, but my guess is, given that Vadym Kolesnik and lots of others do have green cards (knocking wood), it's probably more that they'll take the slightest mistake on the form as a reason to reject it. Like, if she wasn't paying attention and accidentally wrote her last name as "Careirra" on one part of the form, they'd reject it despite it obviously just being a silly mistake.
 

CoyoteChris

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
I can't see the whole article, but it looks like they said a Japanese men's gymnast hadn't shown that he'd won a major internationally recognized prize, not Christina. I didn't see anything about only being winnable by a participant of the competition, but I could have missed it.

About the gymnast, that sounds like it could mean either a) he didn't declare the exact name of a major competition on the form or b) the competitions he's been in aren't considered "major" and "internationally recognized" by the government.

Perhaps the government is being that rigid that they don't consider a silver medal at Junior Worlds a major international prize? It wouldn't surprise me, but my guess is, given that Vadym Kolesnik and lots of others do have green cards (knocking wood), it's probably more that they'll take the slightest mistake on the form as a reason to reject it. Like, if she wasn't paying attention and accidentally wrote her last name as "Careirra" on one part of the form, they'd reject it despite it obviously just being a silly mistake.

WSJ wont let me link articles but I would be glad to send a higher quality jpg of the article to anyone as GS wont let me post high quality jpgs. Just PM me with an email address I can send the attachment to . I suggest, even though I am law enforcement and pretty trustworthy, (dont listen to Mrs. P and Doris!) that you always keep a safe throwaway email address for communicating with strangers.
 

CoyoteChris

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
Hang on - Christina is Canadian?! And her first language is French?! :confused:

Can't say I have ever read up much about Christina (I was more interested in Anthony, due to his parentage). But because of her surname, I always assumed she was from America's Hispanic community. And that Spanish would be her first language.

But I'm with you - that statement is just bizzare. And very worrying. Because if that is the reasoning that the immigration services are using across the board, then nobody at all with "extraordinary ability" will get the pass.

It begs the question - what's the status of Anthony? Have Marina and Sergei got the right paperwork to prevent Anthony from ending up in a similar predicament?

Yet more evidence why this whole having to represent a country thing should be done away with. As I keep saying, it should be about representing yourself, your family, your coach, your club, your rink. The country bit should only be a way of describing where you come from.

CaroLiza_fan

Tony was born in San Jose, California.
This from wiki on her.
Carreira was born on April 3, 2000, in Montreal, Quebec, Canada.[1] French is her first language.[2] In spring 2013, she moved to Novi, Michigan, United States.

In May 2018, Carreira filed a petition to be deemed an "alien with extraordinary ability", which would allow her to apply for permanent residency.[3] The petition was denied in August, the decision asserting that her awards “were not directly awarded to you. They were awarded for your performance as part of a sports team…[W]e do not consider such honors to be a nationally or internationally recognized prize or award for excellence in the field of endeavor, because it is limited to members of that association and participants of those competitions."[3] She filed a lawsuit in October, describing the conclusions as "entirely irrational".[4]

( The French Canadian culture is interesting. I am no expert on Quebec, but Canadian Figure skating fans at Canadian Events (Worlds London Ontario 2013) have told me that there are some odd rules in certain French Canadian cities. Menus, for instance, must be printed in French. The help will gladly slip you a plain paper copy of the menu in English to circumvent the rule. For a further delving into their culture, I reccommend this website.
https://www.educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsules/language-laws-and-doing-business-quebec
"Public Signs and Advertising
In some cases, only French can be used, for example, advertising on buses and on some large billboards.

For some other types of signs and advertising, French can be used along with English or another language, as long as the French is clearly more predominant. "More predominant" usually means that the French version is at least twice as big, or takes up at least twice as much space, as the other language.

Signs and advertising for cultural products or activities and advertising in non-French media can be only in English or another language."

To learn more about the language used for public signs and advertising, visit the website of the Office québecois de la langue française (Web page in French only).
 

CaroLiza_fan

EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA
Record Breaker
Joined
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Tony was born in San Jose, California.
This from wiki on her.
Carreira was born on April 3, 2000, in Montreal, Quebec, Canada.[1] French is her first language.[2] In spring 2013, she moved to Novi, Michigan, United States.

In May 2018, Carreira filed a petition to be deemed an "alien with extraordinary ability", which would allow her to apply for permanent residency.[3] The petition was denied in August, the decision asserting that her awards “were not directly awarded to you. They were awarded for your performance as part of a sports team…[W]e do not consider such honors to be a nationally or internationally recognized prize or award for excellence in the field of endeavor, because it is limited to members of that association and participants of those competitions."[3] She filed a lawsuit in October, describing the conclusions as "entirely irrational".[4]

( The French Canadian culture is interesting. I am no expert on Quebec, but Canadian Figure skating fans at Canadian Events (Worlds London Ontario 2013) have told me that there are some odd rules in certain French Canadian cities. Menus, for instance, must be printed in French. The help will gladly slip you a plain paper copy of the menu in English to circumvent the rule. For a further delving into their culture, I reccommend this website.
https://www.educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsules/language-laws-and-doing-business-quebec
"Public Signs and Advertising
In some cases, only French can be used, for example, advertising on buses and on some large billboards.

For some other types of signs and advertising, French can be used along with English or another language, as long as the French is clearly more predominant. "More predominant" usually means that the French version is at least twice as big, or takes up at least twice as much space, as the other language.

Signs and advertising for cultural products or activities and advertising in non-French media can be only in English or another language."

To learn more about the language used for public signs and advertising, visit the website of the Office québecois de la langue française (Web page in French only).

Don't worry, I also looked up the Wikipedia pages for both of them after I read that article. I was just expressing my surprise at finding out that she was from a French background. Because when I saw her Spanish surname, I naturally assumed that she was from a Spanish background.

What is it they say about the word "assume"...? ;) :biggrin:

(I am still concerned about Anthony, though. He may have been born in America, but would having foreign-born parents impact on his status? I just don't know enough about American citizenship policies. Or any country's, for that matter. Including my own! :slink: )

CaroLiza_fan
 

oly2018

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
Don't worry, I also looked up the Wikipedia pages for both of them after I read that article. I was just expressing my surprise at finding out that she was from a French background. Because when I saw her Spanish surname, I naturally assumed that she was from a Spanish background.

What is it they say about the word "assume"...? ;) :biggrin:

(I am still concerned about Anthony, though. He may have been born in America, but would having foreign-born parents impact on his status? I just don't know enough about American citizenship policies. Or any country's, for that matter. Including my own! :slink: )

CaroLiza_fan

Anthony was born in CA, so he is a US citizen. In the US, we have citizenship by birth, so it doesn't matter what nationalities your parents are if you are born on US soil (generally).

I feel bad for them. In the WSJ article, it says Christina's family dropped their case. I hope it is because they found another avenue.

Side note: Christina and Anthony have spoken in interviews about their initial language barrier. When they first started skating together, Christina knew very little English and he helped her.
 

hanyuufan5

❅*:・。.✨
Medalist
Joined
May 19, 2018
In May 2018, Carreira filed a petition to be deemed an "alien with extraordinary ability", which would allow her to apply for permanent residency.[3] The petition was denied in August, the decision asserting that her awards “were not directly awarded to you. They were awarded for your performance as part of a sports team…[W]e do not consider such honors to be a nationally or internationally recognized prize or award for excellence in the field of endeavor, because it is limited to members of that association and participants of those competitions."[3] She filed a lawsuit in October, describing the conclusions as "entirely irrational".[4]

I'm guessing "entirely irrational" was not how she initially described it among friends and family. :laugh: What a load of... irrationality.
 

Mathman

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
An anti-immigrant sentiment has swept the country in the last few years. The government agencies involved are cracking down on any form of immigration as much as they can under current laws, even as they push for new and even more restrictive regulations.

About the Tanith situation, it worked out well for Belbin and Agosto, but the Michigan congressman who helped them came to a sad political end. Thaddeus McCotter was an up-and-comer in the Republican party and was even mentioned as a future Presidential candidate.

But when he ran for re-election to the House of Representatives, his campaign manager, instead of collecting the required signatures to get his name on the ballot, just submitted some old petitions from the previous time around. He got caught, McCotter was out, and that was the end of his political career.

The campaign manager was charged with accepting bribes from McCotter's opponent in the primary to sabotage McCotter's campaign, but I don't know what became of the case.
 
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CoyoteChris

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
An anti-immigrant sentiment has swept the country in the last few years. The government agencies involved are cracking down on any form of immigration as much as they can under current laws, even as they push for new and even more restrictive regulations.

About the Tanith situation, that worked out well for Belbin and Agosto, but the Michigan congressman who helped them came to a sad political end. Thaddeus McCotter was an up-and-comer in the Republican party and was even mentioned as a future Presidential candidate.

But when he ran for re-election to the House of Representatives, his campaign manager, instead of collecting the required signatures to get his name on the ballot, just submitted some old petitions from the previous time around. He got caught, McCotter was out, and that was the end of his political career.

The campaign manager was charged with accepting bribes from McCotter's opponent in the primary to sabotage McCotter's campaign, but I don't know what became of the case.

Wow...that's an ugly story....but politics always and has been full of ugly stories, ever since George Washington. "If you want a friend in DC, get a dog."
 

CaroLiza_fan

EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA
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Anthony was born in CA, so he is a US citizen. In the US, we have citizenship by birth, so it doesn't matter what nationalities your parents are if you are born on US soil (generally).

I feel bad for them. In the WSJ article, it says Christina's family dropped their case. I hope it is because they found another avenue.

Side note: Christina and Anthony have spoken in interviews about their initial language barrier. When they first started skating together, Christina knew very little English and he helped her.

Phew! That's a relief.

To be honest, I always thought that was the case in all countries. But things I have heard about over the past few years have made me realise otherwise. So, it is hard to know where this approach still holds and where it doesn't.

So, it is just Christina that we have to get sorted out. I hope you do - they are a very promising young partnership. And I would hate to see them ending up the same way as, for example, the brilliant Pairs partnership between Narumi Takahashi and Mervin Tran.

CaroLiza_fan
 

CaroLiza_fan

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Bumping up this thread to ask if anybody knows if Christina got sorted out, or if she is one of the people that will be affected by the decision that came into force today.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52391678

I don't know, well, anything about the American immigration system. So, I'm not sure if this change would affect her or not. For her sake, I hope it doesn't. She's had enough problems in her attempts to get citizenship in time for the Olympics without adding more delays.

CaroLiza_fan
 

Ducky

On the Ice
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Feb 14, 2018
Bumping up this thread to ask if anybody knows if Christina got sorted out, or if she is one of the people that will be affected by the decision that came into force today.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52391678

I don't know, well, anything about the American immigration system. So, I'm not sure if this change would affect her or not. For her sake, I hope it doesn't. She's had enough problems in her attempts to get citizenship in time for the Olympics without adding more delays.

CaroLiza_fan

To be fair the green card status of one athlete is the least of my concerns right now. But to answer your question, I see on her wikipedia page that she's training in Michigan so something got sorted out.

Of course, suspending the green card program is utterly inane because it's incredibly hard get a green card in the first place. If you don't already have family here, and aren't looking to find someone to marry you -- in which case, you have to show evidence that you've been in a significant relationship with your spouse or fiance! -- then you have to prove that you are just too big for your country and that the only place you can succeed to the level that you need to is the United States. Canadian comedian, Ophira Eisenberg has a great story about how, in order to get a US Green Card she created her own company and listed herself as CEO. She was called into the Canadian consulate in NYC for some questions about her immigration status, like whether she lied about anything etc. etc. And then, once she fessed up to consulate there, the woman's response was 'wow, can I possibly get the name of your immigration lawyer? because I can't even get my husband over here.' And that was during the Obama years.

It's much the same as trying to emigrate from the US to the UK without already having a job lined up: very hard.
 

dorispulaski

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Green cards have to be renewed. I am wondering whether any of the US skaters have their renewal date in this time frame when no green cards will be processed?

:pray: especially for Vadym and Christina.
 

Ducky

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 14, 2018
Green cards have to be renewed. I am wondering whether any of the US skaters have their renewal date in this time frame when no green cards will be processed?

:pray: especially for Vadym and Christina.

Green cards last for 10 years. From my understanding people with existing green cards will be allowed to renew them... or they have an option to become US citizens after 5 years of continuous residency in the States.
 

dorispulaski

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It is often not quite as tidy as that. Some countries do not allow dual citizenship, and someone may therefore have never become a US citizen.Others just never wanted or could afford to do it.

For example, last I knew, Geno Auriemma, the UConn women's basketball coach, has operated on a green card forever.
 
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moonvine

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Mar 14, 2007
I can't explain anything other than that we have a different President, and IIRC it was touch and go at one point if she would get the citizenship.

I'm more worried about whether my sister in law will be able to keep her green card..is there such a thing as a permanent green card?
 

dorispulaski

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No. It has to be renewed. The only permanent thing is to get your citizenship...and these days, not even that feels truly secure.
 
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