The race for the Ladies JGPF | Golden Skate

The race for the Ladies JGPF

florin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Taking into account Zhilina's injury (we wish Nika a quick recovery) then at this moment the position

1) Adelia Petrosyan (RUS) (201.21 + 210.57 = 411.78, 1/3 places)
2) Sofia Samodelkina (RUS) (202.39 + 205.67 = 408.06, 2/3 places)
3) Sofia Akatyeva (RUS) (233.08 +... , 1/.. places)

4) Sofia Muravyeva (RUS) (208.20 +... , 2/.. places)
5) Anastasia Zinina (RUS) (206.20 +... , 2/.. places)
6) Isabeau Levito (USA) (202.35 +... , 1/.. places)


Assuming that the originally announced selection criteria for the final (the sum of the scores) will be used, the first three will almost certainly be in the final (Akatyeva, with her monstrous score, must skate incredibly poorly on her second stage in order not to get into the final)

The place in the top six will be contested by

Elizaveta Kulikova (RUS) (196.83 +... , 4/.. places)
Minchae Kim (KOR) (192.48 +... , 4/.. places)


There are less chances (but not unrealistic) for

Chayeon Kim (KOR) (191.46 + 188.46 = 379.92, 2/5 places)
Lindsay Thorngren (USA) (181.45 + 193.77 = 375.22, 1/3 places)


It would seem that Lindsay does not need to be included, since she is below Chayeon in the list, which is already without great chances. But we must take into account that the ISU can also accept other criteria - for example, the best score. In this case, Lindsay will be higher than Chayeon. In addition, places may be taken into account. For example (just hypothetically), that they will be given small bonuses to the total score (+10 for the first place, +8 for the second, etc.)

Do you think I have forgotten to take something into account? What are your thoughts on possible criteria?
 
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mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Well, it's safe to say that Russia has a bright future, followed by the US. I'm surprised not to see any Japanese skaters in the hunt. Were their skaters allowed to attend any JGP's?
 

Jeanie19

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Country
United-States
Well, it's safe to say that Russia has a bright future, followed by the US. I'm surprised not to see any Japanese skaters in the hunt. Were their skaters allowed to attend any JGP's?
Unfortunately the Japanese skaters weren't allowed to compete.

I think the Korean girls are in the hunt, too.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
The method for determining the JGPF criteria has not been announced.

Whatever criteria is announced, it will no doubt be in favor of the Russian competitors. So don't be surprised if all of the JGPF competitors are Russian.

If that is the case, I won't be interested in watching a preview of Russian Nationals with no Senior skaters.
 

Jontor

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Country
Sweden
I think the ISU will make sure somehow it will not be six Russian skaters. So the placings will count somehow. I'm pretty sure that Thorngren is a lock, with 1/3 places.
How the ISU will fix this, I have no idea.
 

florin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
The method for determining the JGPF criteria has not been announced.

Whatever criteria is announced, it will no doubt be in favor of the Russian competitors. So don't be surprised if all of the JGPF competitors are Russian.

If that is the case, I won't be interested in watching a preview of Russian Nationals with no Senior skaters.
Why did you decide that? Just because the purely Russian final is not interesting to the majority of non-Russian viewers, it is in the interests of the ISU to make sure that the Russians is diluted with Americans and Koreans.
 

florin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
I think the ISU will make sure somehow it will not be six Russian skaters. So the placings will count somehow. I'm pretty sure that Thorngren is a lock, with 1/3 places.
How the ISU will fix this, I have no idea.
They are unlikely to be determined directly by places, simply because this is a usual procedure (which means that no one would have announced that there will be a departure from it this year). Plus, it would obviously be unfair due to the absence of Russians at the first two stages.

The ISU can simply introduce quotas (for example, justifying this by an imbalance caused by the lack of a strong Japanese team). For example, "A country cannot be represented by more than 4 skaters in the final"
 

Jontor

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Country
Sweden
They are unlikely to be determined directly by places, simply because this is a usual procedure (which means that no one would have announced that there will be a departure from it this year). Plus, it would obviously be unfair due to the absence of Russians at the first two stages.

The ISU can simply introduce quotas (for example, justifying this by an imbalance caused by the lack of a strong Japanese team). For example, "A country cannot be represented by more than 4 skaters in the final"
Yes quotas is a possibility!

They can also just re-allocate the two weakest Russians from Slovakia/Russia and count them as results in Courchevel. But perhaps that doesn't matter.

We mustn't forget though that the ISU wants a mixed final. They might fear that the interest in huge skating countries like USA will fade if they are not represented.

We have already seen posts on this forum where some have said they are not interested in watching an all Russian JGP final. Which is sad to me as a sports fan.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
From the Russian point of view, if the Russians could have gone to France, they would have won all the gold medals there, so it isn't fair to go by placements.
But in the later events,

SVK: 4 Russians per event

MEN: Russian GOLD and SILVER
WOMEN: GOLD SILVER BRONZE
PAIRS: GOLD and BRONZE
DANCE: SILVER and BRONZE

RUS: 5 Russians per event, exc 4 in Pairs

MEN: GOLD and SILVER
WOMEN: GOLD SILVER BRONZE, 4th and 5th
PAIRS: GOLD SILVER BRONZE, 4th
DANCE: GOLD and SILVER

SLO: 2 Russians per event except 1 in Men
MEN: GOLD
WOMEN: GOLD, SILVER
DANCE: GOLD, 5TH

So the Russians were upset about the first two events because they should have had all the gold medals there? And therefore they begrudge the medals won there by non-Russians. And don't want those medals counted in determining the JGPF.


Such incredible SPORTSMANSHIP!!
 

Jontor

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Country
Sweden
From the Russian point of view, if the Russians could have gone to France, they would have won all the gold medals there, so it isn't fair to go by placements.
But in the later events,

SVK: 4 Russians per event

MEN: Russian GOLD and SILVER
WOMEN: GOLD SILVER BRONZE
PAIRS: GOLD and BRONZE
DANCE: SILVER and BRONZE

RUS: 5 Russians per event, exc 4 in Pairs

MEN: GOLD and SILVER
WOMEN: GOLD SILVER BRONZE, 4th and 5th
PAIRS: GOLD SILVER BRONZE, 4th
DANCE: GOLD and SILVER

SLO: 2 Russians per event except 1 in Men
MEN: GOLD
WOMEN: GOLD, SILVER
DANCE: GOLD, 5TH

So the Russians were upset about the first two events because they should have had all the gold medals there? And therefore they begrudge the medals won there by non-Russians. And don't want those medals counted in determining the JGPF.


Such incredible SPORTSMANSHIP!!
I don't get your logic. So what is good sportmanship in your opinion?
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
From the Russian point of view, if the Russians could have gone to France, they would have won all the gold medals there, so it isn't fair to go by placements.
But in the later events,

SVK: 4 Russians per event

MEN: Russian GOLD and SILVER
WOMEN: GOLD SILVER BRONZE
PAIRS: GOLD and BRONZE
DANCE: SILVER and BRONZE

RUS: 5 Russians per event, exc 4 in Pairs

MEN: GOLD and SILVER
WOMEN: GOLD SILVER BRONZE, 4th and 5th
PAIRS: GOLD SILVER BRONZE, 4th
DANCE: GOLD and SILVER

SLO: 2 Russians per event except 1 in Men
MEN: GOLD
WOMEN: GOLD, SILVER
DANCE: GOLD, 5TH

So the Russians were upset about the first two events because they should have had all the gold medals there? And therefore they begrudge the medals won there by non-Russians. And don't want those medals counted in determining the JGPF.


Such incredible SPORTSMANSHIP!!
What are you even talking about… :palmf:
 

YuBluByMe

May Rika spin her hair into GOLD
Final Flight
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
The ISU can simply introduce quotas (for example, justifying this by an imbalance caused by the lack of a strong Japanese team). For example, "A country cannot be represented by more than 4 skaters in the final"
Placements, scores, whatever, but ISU better not come up with some quota buffoonery. I’m not a fan of rules that pretend to be “fair” but is anything but. If a rule affects only one group of people, then there’s only one place for it and that’s where the sun doesn’t shine. I take it that four Americans, Canadians, Koreans and Unobtanian skaters in each discipline had a chance at the final then? It seems that such a rule will negatively affect Russia only.
 

el henry

Fangirl of men’s spirals and split jumps
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
.....

Assuming that the originally announced selection criteria for the final (the sum of the scores) will be used, the first three will almost certainly be in the final (Akatyeva, with her monstrous score, must skate incredibly poorly on her second stage in order not to get into the final)

....


Can I ask "announced" by whom? And when?

I have seen statements attributed to a Russian official (sadly I do not read Russian, so I cannot tell myself) that it would be scores, but no announcement from the ISU.
 

Mawwerg

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 8, 2014
From the Russian point of view, if the Russians could have gone to France, they would have won all the gold medals there, so it isn't fair to go by placements.
But in the later events,

SVK: 4 Russians per event

MEN: Russian GOLD and SILVER
WOMEN: GOLD SILVER BRONZE
PAIRS: GOLD and BRONZE
DANCE: SILVER and BRONZE

RUS: 5 Russians per event, exc 4 in Pairs

MEN: GOLD and SILVER
WOMEN: GOLD SILVER BRONZE, 4th and 5th
PAIRS: GOLD SILVER BRONZE, 4th
DANCE: GOLD and SILVER

SLO: 2 Russians per event except 1 in Men
MEN: GOLD
WOMEN: GOLD, SILVER
DANCE: GOLD, 5TH

So the Russians were upset about the first two events because they should have had all the gold medals there? And therefore they begrudge the medals won there by non-Russians. And don't want those medals counted in determining the JGPF.


Such incredible SPORTSMANSHIP!!
I think the key thing here are women. :)
 

el henry

Fangirl of men’s spirals and split jumps
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
Placements, scores, whatever, but ISU better not come up with some quota buffoonery. I’m not a fan of rules that pretend to be “fair” but is anything but. If a rule affects only one group of people, then there’s only one place for it and that’s where the sun doesn’t shine. I take it that four Americans, Canadians, Koreans and Unobtanian skaters in each discipline had a chance at the final then? It seems that such a rule will negatively affect Russia only.

I'm not a fan of the term "quota buffoonery".

What is "fair" about excluding medalists from the Final, because of a preconceived notion about who should be in the Final? To me using scores and scores only, while excluding medalists, would be "quota buffoonery". The medalists had no control over who was in their field, why should they be excluded any more than "high scorers". Comparing scores across competitions is "fair"? Not so much for me:scratch2:

I have always said I prefer an expanded final, with both medalists and high scorers included. Then may the best skaters win:hap10:
 

Jontor

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Country
Sweden
I'm not a fan of the term "quota buffoonery".

What is "fair" about excluding medalists from the Final, because of a preconceived notion about who should be in the Final? To me using scores and scores only, while excluding medalists, would be "quota buffoonery". The medalists had no control over who was in their field, why should they be excluded any more than "high scorers". Comparing scores across competitions is "fair"? Not so much for me:scratch2:

I have always said I prefer an expanded final, with both medalists and high scorers included. Then may the best skaters win:hap10:
I can second that idea. An expanded final would be the best solution. Then everyone would be happy?

I think it's unlikely though. And I find it typical of the ISU to not have made a decision yet. It is terrible to have a JGP series when no one knows the rules!!

I guess/hope we will get an announcement from the ISU after their next meeting 1st Oct.
 
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