Thoughts on Ladies' SP at Russian Nats?

gsk8

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Jun 21, 2003
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United-States
“I don’t want to talk too much about my illness, it is the way it is,” she said. “I am pleased with my short program. There was a mistake on the spin, but I am not thinking about it now. I am only thinking about the Free Skate.” Shcherbakova stressed that she did not want to withdraw. “I did not think about that. I want to compete therefore I will try to do the best that I can do now.”

What are your thoughts on the Ladies' SP at this event?
 
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Colonel Green

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Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Country
Canada
- the judging panel's favouritism toward the Sambo-70 skaters was nowhere more evident than when Usacheva had a borderline-technical fall and yet still got positive GOE on the step sequence. Except possibly when the technical panel suddenly discovered Trusova's incorrect flip edge (which weirdly they had never seen before) while ignoring the parade of flutzes from Eteri's girls.

- Nugumanova skated the best she has in a long time, and that 3Lo-3Lo has seldom looked better. I have a hard time imagining her holding this position in the free skate, but enjoy it!

- This is maybe the most complete program Tuktamysheva has ever had, and certainly I don't recall her ever being this engaged in the choreography before.

- I felt bad for Samodurova, who had that one great season in 2018-19 but I don't think really has the technical/artistic ability to keep up, and she always ends up looking discouraged in the KnC.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
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Jun 6, 2019
- the judging panel's favouritism toward the Sambo-70 skaters was nowhere more evident than when Usacheva had a borderline-technical fall and yet still got positive GOE on the step sequence. Except possibly when the technical panel suddenly discovered Trusova's incorrect flip edge (which weirdly they had never seen before) while ignoring the parade of flutzes from Eteri's girls.

- Nugumanova skated the best she has in a long time, and that 3Lo-3Lo has seldom looked better. I have a hard time imagining her holding this position in the free skate, but enjoy it!

- This is maybe the most complete program Tuktamysheva has ever had, and certainly I don't recall her ever being this engaged in the choreography before.

- I felt bad for Samodurova, who had that one great season in 2018-19 but I don't think really has the technical/artistic ability to keep up, and she always ends up looking discouraged in the KnC.
I counted 4 flutzes that were not counted even with (!). This is what I call unfair.
 

Ophelia

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 6, 2013
What's the final standing for the SP? Been trawling through 40 pages of discussion in both competition and RusLadies thread and can't find the actual standings.
 

Skatefan15

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Eteri bonus is still alive and well, so that sucks. Does Sasha sometimes go outside on her flip? Yes absolutely and she was called for it. But in a competition where Anna and Daria’s flutzes were not called it just doesn’t seem fair. The blantant overscoring of skaters because of a certain coach really takes away from my enjoyment of this event.
 

Dogo

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 2, 2020
Well, it was very disappointing to see the scoring because, in the long term, this won't benefit the ladies who were overscored today. They won't put time in fixing their jumping technique/edges, and with unreal scoring they will lack the motivation for bettering their skating skills. I'm all for rewarding skaters and giving them good scores to encourage them to be better the next time. But a talent for musicality can't mask lack of skating skills, actual flow on ice (not just hurried transitions), and proper jumping edges according to the correct type of jump. The mastery of all of this makes real artistry. Something that wasn't reflected in the way the scores were given. I'm afraid history will repeat itself with some of these girls getting their brief 2 year spotlight with uncalled mistakes until their injuries (yes, because at the rate that they are overexerting themselves for competing with breathing problems, injury-prone jump entrances, and unstable landings, it is very likely that will have injuries) prevent them from fixing these issues before the Federation decides to support younger and stronger ones soon to come.
 

samkrut@mail.ru

Medalist
Record Breaker
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Mar 26, 2014
The key takeaway for me is that no matter how deep one could submerge into URs, edges, skating skills, etc. arguments the actual standings are all correct. The only 2 matters of discussion for me are Sasha vs. Dasha and placing Sofia ahead of Ksenia and Nastya G. Sasha and Dasha are close and if Sasha was a bit ahead I would have agreed with that as well. Sofia "wuzzrobbed"

It's my first Nationals at home in many years - on the stands it may look different. Some short remarks.

The best overall: Kamila and Anna. They both are near perfect skaters.

The biggest improvement: Sasha and Liza T. Sasha skating wise is still no way near my all time favorites. But she has made a good step forward towards being a balanced skater. Well, it might be easier with no 3A and "just" 3Lz-3T instead of 3lz-3Lo. But still. The question is can she adhere to her new style when quads come to light. They take a lot of focus and stamina. I will be open-minded about that when I see her tomorrow.

Liza T was wow! Not wow! vs. Kamila and Anna but vs. usual Liza T. She is still evolving. My deepest kudos.

Finally appreciated: Liza N. Looking at her landings in slow-mo I saw opportunities for the calls that she usually gets. But she got a pass this time. And I like it because she was very impressive. Still she was like 2 points short in pcs. I think they had to be Sasha-Darya's level of 35. But anyway, she was very pleased with the score. And I would not vote for her going above Liza T as URs were still there.

Something unexpected: Maya. Boy, that was impressive. Starting with her make-up that some people may label as "inappropriate for a minor", she was something else. In my book of how the ideal skater should skate she would not get a place. I mean Yulia, Zhenya, Alyona last season, Anna, Kamila. But I liked it a lot and appreciated how different she is.

Wuzrobbed: Sofia Samodurova. I don't get this harsh treatment. Her Lz looked border line and would have get a pass with others. Her pcs are too low. I miss 3-4 points. She should have cleared 70.

Overscored: Nastya G. I just don't like her skating style. It looks quite outdated with power over grace and emotional performance. Not my cup of tea and too high pcs for what she showed. I would give 67-68 for that.

Sad, may be next time: Nastya T, Anna F, Maria, Stasya (the last one is unlikely speaking of the next time but who knows?)
 
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Skatefan15

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Well, it was very disappointing to see the scoring because, in the long term, this won't benefit the ladies who were overscored today. They won't put time in fixing their jumping technique/edges, and with unreal scoring they will lack the motivation for bettering their skating skills. I'm all for rewarding skaters and giving them good scores to encourage them to be better the next time. But a talent for musicality can't mask lack of skating skills, actual flow on ice (not just hurried transitions), and proper jumping edges according to the correct type of jump. The mastery of all of this makes real artistry. Something that wasn't reflected in the way the scores were given. I'm afraid history will repeat itself with some of these girls getting their brief 2 year spotlight with uncalled mistakes until their injuries (yes, because at the rate that they are overexerting themselves for competing with breathing problems, injury-prone jump entrances, and unstable landings, it is very likely that will have injuries) prevent them from fixing these issues before the Federation decides to support younger and stronger ones soon to come.
I completely agree. With the skaters that are overscored, why should they improve their lutz edge if the judges never call it? Why improve PCS when you get extremely overscored? It’s hard to understand Russian judging :palmf:
 

Dogo

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 2, 2020
I completely agree. With the skaters that are overscored, why should they improve their lutz edge if the judges never call it? Why improve PCS when you get extremely overscored? It’s hard to understand Russian judging :palmf:
Indeed👍. And I say this as someone that appreciates Valieva bringing a unique "light and delicate" upper body performance to the game (and I want her to become even more beautiful when skating). Why should she improve the way how she shakily lands, changes edges, and literally "pushes and pulls" her feet from the ice when jumping a combo if she gets rewarded either way?
 

purplecat

Final Flight
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Jul 27, 2003
Country
United-States
I'm not a big Trusova fan, but I felt she should have scored higher here. I worry about Anna doing the free and how her stamina will hold up, but she did a great job here, just that spin error. Nugumanova was lovely and the other nice surprise for me was Tsibinova.
 

Mathman

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I'm still betting on Trusova. She survived the SP, where she might have fallen behind because of triple Axels. Now, going into the LP, she is the one with the big stick, in base value potential at least.
 

chasingneverland

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
Indeed👍. And I say this as someone that appreciates Valieva bringing a unique "light and delicate" upper body performance to the game (and I want her to become even more beautiful when skating). Why should she improve the way how she shakily lands, changes edges, and literally "pushes and pulls" her feet from the ice when jumping a combo if she gets rewarded either way?
I disagree. It's clear they're working. Anna's lutz looks better than it looked last year. Kamila's jumps are also better than they were at Juniors's last year.
 

Fluture

You will see her in a crown
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Apr 26, 2018
I'm still betting on Trusova. She survived the SP, where she might have fallen behind because of triple Axels. Now, going into the LP, she is the one with the big stick, in base value potential at least.
She isn‘t, actually, at least not this time. She‘s recovering from an injury, so she‘ll try “only“ two quads. Same number as Shcherbakova (presumably) and Valieva, both of whom get higher GOE on spins and steps and higher PCS. The only way for her to win tomorrow is if Shcherbakova and Valieva fail big time.
 

chasingneverland

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
She isn‘t, actually, at least not this time. She‘s recovering from an injury, so she‘ll try “only“ two quads. Same number as Shcherbakova (presumably) and Valieva, both of whom get higher GOE on spins and steps and higher PCS. The only way for her to win tomorrow is if Shcherbakova and Valieva fail big time.
Absolutely crazy that "watered down" skates for Sasha and Anna are "only" one or two quads and backloaded 3Lz-3Lo (or sometimes 3Lz-3T).
 

Dogo

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 2, 2020
I disagree. It's clear they're working. Anna's lutz looks better than it looked last year. Kamila's jumps are also better than they were at Juniors's last year.
She was at 69.02 last year at JGP Final and 74.92 at her peak in Worlds (with no pandemic, and no distinguishable puberty growth spurt). Yes, they are working. It is just quite clear that they are working on musicality, performance, transitions, even more flowier arm positions, and increasing the tech load for 2 Quads and 3A. Nothing bad with that, it's just that proper deep edges and ice flow are the same and disguised as "improved" through the quick little jumps she does for her transitions. Yes, emotion can be conveyed through her arms and upper body extensions but watching just her feet through the entire SP and comparing it with, let's say, someone that has undeniably textbook SS like Yuzuru, is when you see that hers is decent/good SS at best and giving her a 79.99 score is ridiculous. The jump flow in her combos has been suffering as well and sadly that won't be fixed.

I politely agree to disagree. And yes we can talk about "the stories that we want tell" and "how captivating the performance was" but I think Figure Skating should be about narrating those stories with -firstly and foremost- how you glide, flow, and jump with your feet (and can't stress this enough for the sake of the sport), legs, upper body and arms in that order.
 

lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
I got an early heartbreak with Frolova. I was really happy that Trusova, at least to my uneducated eye, was the only one of the top 4 who didn’t have the obvious mistakes and she skated lightly and with speed, and jumps flowed with the program, which I think is always what the judges are looking for; if the Russians like Usacheva better, it’s their business. Valieva botched 3A, but her spins are always pretty. Scherbakova was nice, but I don’t get the gap they gave her in score from everyone else, but what do I know, she is a lovely lady.

I liked Ngumanova as well, and I thought Onishenko and Molchanova have lovely programs.
 
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gsk8

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Country
United-States
What's the final standing for the SP? Been trawling through 40 pages of discussion in both competition and RusLadies thread and can't find the actual standings.
It's on the main page on the sidebar as well as every page at the top of the Competition Threads :)
 
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