Tim Dieck to team up with Olivia Smart for Spain

[gsk8]

Spanish federation applies to DEU for start clearance for ice dancer Tim Dieck​

Last week, the German Ice Skating Union (DEU) received an application from the Spanish federation for the start clearance for the Dortmund ice dancer Tim Dieck. The 27-year-old wants to continue his sporting career with his new partner, British-Spanish ice dancer Olivia Smart, under the Spanish flag. After several negotiations, the Spanish federation was able to make the financially better offer. The new ice dancing couple has recently started training in Canada. The request for launch clearance is currently being examined by the DEU.

Tim Dieck had parted ways with his long-time ice dance partner Katharina Müller after the 2022 Olympic season. The pair competed in the 2020 European Championships (13th place) and the 2021 World Championships (18th place), finishing the 2022 Winter Olympics in Beijing (China) in 21st place. His new partner Olivia Smart, with her previous partner Adrián Díaz, had finished fourth for Spain at the 2022 European Figure Skating Championships and eighth at the 2022 Winter Olympics.

Spanischer Verband beantragt bei DEU Startfreigabe für Eistänzer Tim Dieck

Die Deutsche Eislauf-Union e.V. ist nationaler Spitzenverband für Eiskunstlaufen, Eistanz und Synchroneiskunstlaufen und einer von nur 7 olympischen Wintersportverbänden.

www.eislauf-union.de

 

[Mathman]

Am I understanding the translation correctly that the reason for the new partnership is that the Spansh Federation paid Mr. Dieck more money for his services than the German Federation was willing to?

Anyway, good luck to all.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

Am I understanding the translation correctly that the reason for the new partnership is that the Spansh Federation paid Mr. Dieck more money for his services than the German Federation was willing to?

Anyway, good luck to all.

Funding constraints seem to be a common theme with German skaters. Hocke/Kunkel expressed concern over it to the point that they were considering switching countries. Financial concerns were also mentioned by Efimova/Blommaert when they split. I think Nicole Schott has raised the issue too.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Wow. This is the first time I've come across Feds bidding for the services of a skater / partnership.

In all seriousness, I'm really surprised that it has ended with this outcome. I was sure that the two Feds had come to an arrangement where they were doing a direct swap - Asaf Kazimov for Olivia Smart. But, the way it has turned out is that Spain has ended up with all the cards and Germany has nothing.

I am really surprised at this. Especially after hearing how involved Tim's family is in the German Fed. I never for one moment imagined that he would leave. The Spanish Fed must have put together a really great package for them to have won the "auction".

Through maintaining the Fan Fests for Sofía Val's most recent partnerships, I have come to learn that the Spanish Fed is very good at promoting their skaters, letting us know when and where they are competing, and posting programme videos. It seems to be a very well run organisation. But, given that figure skating is an obscure sport in Spain, it does make you wonder how they can afford to get into a bidding war for the services of what is likely to be a top level partnership. And win them. They must have really good sponsors with really deep pockets. But, I looked at the sponsors listed on the Fed's website, and I have to admit only one name sounds vaguely familiar. I have never heard tell of the rest. But, if they are putting the money in, then who cares if they are not well known names internationally!

Anyway. Regardless of whose jacket Olivia and Tim are wearing, I am really looking forward to seeing them.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[synesthesia]

Am I understanding the translation correctly that the reason for the new partnership is that the Spansh Federation paid Mr. Dieck more money for his services than the German Federation was willing to?

It implies that the Spanish federation making the better financial offer is the reason for the decision to compete for Spain. The reason for the new partnership is not discussed in the article.

 

[skylark]

After watching Olivia Smart's very recent interview with TSL (Dave and Jenni), I'm really happy to hear that they'll be competing for Spain. The way she described the hopes and ideas for their partnership is very cool and exciting. I'm so happy for them both. Also ... apparently Olivia had been helping organize a tryout for another female dancer with Tim, and when that didn't work out, Marie-France (and Patch?) approached her suggesting Olivia try out with Tim. Such a great story. Really looking forward to seeing them!

 

[Sabine]

German Fed offers their best skaters nothing, they don't even cover costs for travel to competitions. I'm sure Spanish Fed invests way more in their skaters. So that was an easy decision.

 

[Rikku]

On top of the offer, if S/D2.0 plan to go to the Olympics, it's likely easier for Tim to obtain Spanish citizenship than it would be for Olivia to gain the German one.

 

[icewhite]

I don't think the funding for German athletes is bad if they are sports soldiers or with the police force, like Schott. Then it should be around 3000 Euro per month. For the others however an expensive sport like skating will likely be difficult to finance from public funding.

 

[NanaPat]

I don't think the funding for German athletes is bad if they are sports soldiers or with the police force, like Schott. Then it should be around 3000 Euro per month. For the others however an expensive sport like skating will likely be difficult to finance from public funding.

Watch the Hocke/Kunkel interview. They have army financing, but can't afford to take a coach to their GP(s).

Based on that interview, the Spanish federation wouldn't have to bid very much at all to out-bid the German one.

 

[icewhite]

Watch the Hocke/Kunkel interview. They have army financing, but can't afford to take a coach to their GP(s).

Based on that interview, the Spanish federation wouldn't have to bid very much at all to out-bid the German one.

"Hocke und Kunkel stemmen die jährlich aufkommenden Kosten für ihren Sport beinahe komplett alleine. "Wir finanzieren es von unserem Sportsoldaten-Gehalt, auch wenn es eigentlich nicht dafür da ist", erklärt Hocke."

I'm sorry. I like them. I also think that elite sports that aren't football are not taken care of in Germany, but there are other factors I would look at, like support of teenage athletes if they don't want to go to a boarding school, media coverage, such.

To say that their soldier's income is not meant to cover the costs - well, basically, it is. That's the whole reason this structure exists. They don't have anything close to a normal soldier's schedule or tasks but can use most of their time to train. Together they should get about 6000 Euros per month for that. And in addition they get some more funding, although that isn't much.
If that is not enough the sport they are persuing is simply extremely expensive. They are doing a sport that's a complete niche sport in Germany. They are not in contention for medals at Worlds or Olympics.

Okay, so there are countries who pay better. But in my opinion you cannot expect the state to extensively finance something that is, effectively, your personal dream, and, yes, hobby.

If there are other factors I am not aware of and they get less, I apologize for this harsh view.

 

[Sabine]

@icewite You probably don't know much about the structure of funding of Olympic sports in Germany. The government gives money to finance most parts of the training of elite athletes, but they give the money to the federations, because they should know better how to spend the money. If a federation keeps the money (to pay mainly their administrative personnel) and gives almost nothing for the actual sport, like German fed is doing, it's not how it's supposed to work.
A sports soldier doesn't earn 3000 Euro, its less and this money is for living and to compensate that these young people dedicate their lifes for the sport and can't start in time with a well paid job, like their school mates.

 

[Sabine]

They are doing a sport that's a complete niche sport in Germany. They are not in contention for medals at Worlds or Olympics.

Who would have thought that Conti/ Macii were in contention for a medal at Worlds a year ago.

 

[lariko]

I am glad to see Smart continue to dance!

 

[Jumping_Bean]

The average salary of a German sports soldier in 2019 was 2594.16 €, and athletes who were part of a national team received an additional 304.14 € per month (which was then increased to 600 €).

So, in 2019 they would have each received 2898.30 € monthly, i.e. a total of 5796.60 € for the two of them together. This adds up to 69,559.20 € per year.

While we have no much idea how much their training actually costs, estimates for an individual elite skater are at 35,000 - 60,000 $ (i.e. around 31,250 - 53,600 € in 2019). As a pair, they probably share some expenses like coaching fees, but at they are likely to spend at least 50,000 € per year on skating. This leaves them with around 19,600 € (i.e. 1600 € per month) or less to fund their living and potential medical expenses. - And that's the best-case scenario, which I assume is far from their actual situation.

And while they might not be contenders for the Worlds podium, they are European medalists. Does that count for nothing? (If you ask the German media, yes, it counts for nothing... At least if you're a figure skater)

 

[ladyjane]

As us Dutchies would say: "it's not a grease pot" which means "it doesn't pay the bills". Skaters from Germany have always been grateful for the sports soldier option, but if you have to also pay the transportation to competitions, the overnights, the costs for having a coach going along, choreography, ballet and other off ice trainers, etc. there won't be much left from that salary. In the Netherlands skating is no grease pot either, but at least the speed skaters are sponsored to a great extent. That helps. The figure skaters not so much. It's a lot better in many other countries, so I totally get where they're coming from. They're not expecting to get rich, just supported.

 

[4everchan]

I guess this would be a good thread idea... comparing how it is in different parts of the world... Canadians are funded to a certain extent (very minimal when they are on the National team)... i am not even sure if would be more than a sport/soldier/police deal... I have no idea but is the problem here that Germany is lowering its funding... but there is probably better funding in Germany than in other parts of the world... not enough, and definitely less than in some countries where athletes are fully funded... but it seems to me that the soldier deal is a good starting point.... I mean, a lot of skaters in Canada have day jobs... Patch was working as a mechanics. ... many coach the younglings... some wait tables... etc... I mean.. i am not sure someone waiting tables can make 30K Euros a year while skating.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

As us Dutchies would say: "it's not a grease pot" which means "it doesn't pay the bills". Skaters from Germany have always been grateful for the sports soldier option, but if you have to also pay the transportation to competitions, the overnights, the costs for having a coach going along, choreography, ballet and other off ice trainers, etc. there won't be much left from that salary. In the Netherlands skating is no grease pot either, but at least the speed skaters are sponsored to a great extent. That helps. The figure skaters not so much. It's a lot better in many other countries, so I totally get where they're coming from. They're not expecting to get rich, just supported.

This is often where they'd benefit from a strong ice dance academy, with set coaching fees and coaches on monthly salary. With enough students it becomes a much cheaper way to produce elite athletes. Of course places like I.AM and American academies are ridiculously expensive, but some of the newer arrivals in Europe offer cheaper than one person sourcing all the training separately and paying by the hour.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

I guess this would be a good thread idea... comparing how it is in different parts of the world... Canadians are funded to a certain extent (very minimal when they are on the National team)... i am not even sure if would be more than a sport/soldier/police deal... I have no idea but is the problem here that Germany is lowering its funding... but there is probably better funding in Germany than in other parts of the world... not enough, and definitely less than in some countries where athletes are fully funded... but it seems to me that the soldier deal is a good starting point.... I mean, a lot of skaters in Canada have day jobs... Patch was working as a mechanics. ... many coach the younglings... some wait tables... etc... I mean.. i am not sure someone waiting tables can make 30K Euros a year while skating.

A pair with equivalent results to Hocke/Kunkel would have received $50,360 CAN in funding this season. There are also additional grants on the province level, which differ in amount.

Despite the lower personal funding for each skater, Skate Canada supports skaters in additional ways. For example, Skate Canada also has grants for rinks and skating schools, which isn't something I'm aware of happening in Germany, which explains why there's a severe lack of rinks and qualified coaches in Germany (which in return leads to higher costs for athletes - Or even higher costs if they have to move outside of Germany).

 

[4everchan]

A pair with equivalent results to Hocke/Kunkel would have received $50,360 CAN in funding this season. There are also additional grants on the province level, which differ in amount.

Despite the lower personal funding for each skater, Skate Canada supports skaters in additional ways. For example, Skate Canada also has grants for rinks and skating schools, which isn't something I'm aware of happening in Germany, which explains why there's a severe lack of rinks and qualified coaches in Germany (which in return leads to higher costs for athletes - Or even higher costs if they have to move outside of Germany).

Where do you get your numbers from ? 50K CAD is about 33K in Euros... so pretty much, if you say that a Canadian pairs equivalent to Hocke and Kunkel gets 50K CAD, then they are getting about half of what a German team is getting since the soldier/police/athlete deals gets them about 30K Euros each...

Also, yes, there are more rinks, there are more coaches, there more opportunities in Canada as the Fed funds lower levels to create access and develop talent... the reality is still that it was still so much more than other sports when growing up that I had to live my passion watching and not skating... My family couldn't afford even the beginner classes in Canada... it is a sport reserved for people way above middle class, or at least it was when i was growing up...