Turn-out on ice

[kinari]

Hi everyone! I've been struggling a lot with my turn out on ice although I can do it fairly well off ice. Recently Ive been taking off ice a lot more seriously now that I got started on my prebronze ice dances and am gonna test presilver/intermediate mitf next month, but my foot is still pretty turned in especially in my spirals (mitf sequence) and in the dances. Does anyone have any off-ice recommendations I can do to improve my turn-out on ice or any helpful tips or exercises that I can generally use to help my turn-out on ice?

 

[Diana Delafield]

Hi everyone! I've been struggling a lot with my turn out on ice although I can do it fairly well off ice. Recently Ive been taking off ice a lot more seriously now that I got started on my prebronze ice dances and am gonna test presilver/intermediate mitf next month, but my foot is still pretty turned in especially in my spirals (mitf sequence) and in the dances. Does anyone have any off-ice recommendations I can do to improve my turn-out on ice or any helpful tips or exercises that I can generally use to help my turn-out on ice?

Ballet class, obviously, but often the problem is just the way an individual's hip joints are constructed and full turnout will always be difficult to achieve. I've never managed a first-class spread eagle in my life, but we choreograph around that. For the pattern dances and other moves, ballet can probably get you to passing standard unless there's some problem an orthopedic specialist needs to see. If dance exercises cause significant pain, stop and get the hip joint checked out via X-ray or MRI before you do lasting damage. Good luck!

 

[hope_skate]

Ballet class, obviously, but often the problem is just the way an individual's hip joints are constructed and full turnout will always be difficult to achieve. I've never managed a first-class spread eagle in my life, but we choreograph around that. For the pattern dances and other moves, ballet can probably get you to passing standard unless there's some problem an orthopedic specialist needs to see. If dance exercises cause significant pain, stop and get the hip joint checked out via X-ray or MRI before you do lasting damage. Good luck!

yep. turnout also depends a lot on your body/bone structure and once you're fully developed (adulthood), it is rather difficult to alter it. With turnout, a lot of people think it's mainly flexibility but as someone who does ballet, too much flexibility without the strength to maintain the turn out can be an issue. I'm flexible (middle splits and front splits - flat) but still can find it difficult to maintain the turnout once my foot is off the ground.

here are few suggestions on what I always do to get better at maintaining my turn out.

1. First position, see how much of a turn out you have. Try starting from 6th position and slowly turn your feet out. Feel it from your hips (mainly). Don't rotate from your knee (this is ouch!). As you are on the floor, try not to put too much weight on your heels. Do this slowly few times. You can hold on to a barre or a chair for balance if you wish.

2. Fifth position. Try getting as tight as possible to your 5th position. Look for barre classes and check out their 5th position section of it. The movement you do, such as getting in and out of 5th position helps train your turnout strength because you have to maintain the turnout position while moving and lifting your foot off the floor.

Hope this is clear enough and hope this helps!

 

[WednesdayMarch]

Ballet is your best bet. Yebin Mok does online ballet classes especially designed for skaters, along with other off ice ones. You can find her on Instagram. The beginner classes are recorded so you can do them at any time, go back over things, etc. The live ones are more advanced. Her credentials are impeccable and she's a lovely person, too, so will happily answer any questions you have about her classes.

 

[LolaSkatesInJapan]

Ballet. Look on YouTube for videos by Katheryn Morgan and videos by Maria Khoreva about exercises for improving turnout.
It’s a mix of flexibility and hip rotation combined with strength for holding the turnout and engaging gluteus muscles without locking the pelvis.

 

[adhara]

If you need turnout for things like mohawks and choctaw, you really have to bend your knees and ankles. That will allow a lot more room. If your turnout is fine off ice and bad on ice, then it's technique, not anatomical. You also will need to work on your STRENGTH in the external rotators for thing like spirals.

When people say "do ballet," they're really not explaining why ballet helps.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

As others have stated before me: Ballet is your friend here.

 

[LolaSkatesInJapan]

When people say "do ballet," they're really not explaining why ballet helps.

Huh? Please read posts above

 

[kinari]

If you need turnout for things like mohawks and choctaw, you really have to bend your knees and ankles. That will allow a lot more room. If your turnout is fine off ice and bad on ice, then it's technique, not anatomical. You also will need to work on your STRENGTH in the external rotators for thing like spirals.

When people say "do ballet," they're really not explaining why ballet helps.

Thank you! I think I kind of understand why ballet helps through my barre instructor and skating coach. Do you have any strength exercises you recommend, or is it mostly just working your legs out?

 

[kinari]

Thanks everyone for helping me and giving me advice! Unfortunately there are no ballet classes in my area but I've been doing barre now 2-3x a week at a local studio and I've been doing some ballet YouTube videos online, and I see a pretty good improvement. I think my hips are naturally tight and closed bec I have a family history with hip and joint issues (+ mild scoliosis, idk if that makes a difference), but ballet is helping a lot. I appreciate these exercises and support!

 

[adhara]

Thank you! I think I kind of understand why ballet helps through my barre instructor and skating coach. Do you have any strength exercises you recommend, or is it mostly just working your legs out?

I'm glad you have a barre instructor that has taught you about these things! That means they're probably pretty knowledgeable. In general, there's really too many exercises and too much nuance to be able to say "just do these exercises" so I really would recommend asking your barre instructor to give you some recommendations for working out your external rotators. Since this instructor sees you a lot, they will hopefully know a bit more than I do about where your strengths and weaknesses show themselves.

 

[FlossieH]

As others said, the exercises which work best for each person will vary between individuals and someone who knows your barre work is best placed to advise you. I personally found ronde de jambre exercises helpful for really thinking through turnout; particularly those with the working leg off the ground. An exercise I used a lot was retire, develope devant to 90 degrees (45 done well is better than 90 done poorly, though), ronde de jambe to an a la seconde position at the same height paying really careful attention to hip and knee alignment (the turnout should come from the hip, not the knee), holding that position briefly (if holding the position is too much to start with then lower the working leg a la seconde, close, retire, develope a la seconde paying careful attention to hip and knee alignment, and continue), then ronde de jambe to a derriere position at the same height extending into arabesque, attitude derriere, then back to retire, and close, then the same in reverse. Having the working leg doing the ronde de jambe in an off the floor position means that you have to rely more on your external rotators and can't use the floor to help with turnout.

Edit: the off the floor position I'm referring to is sometimes called Grande ronde de jambe. It is different to ronde de jambe en l'air (which would not suit what you are wanting so well).