USFS International Selection Pool (ISP) Points Challenge

Skatefan15

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Mar 8, 2015
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Only 6 triples in FS, 3Lz REP, just one combo (3-2-2). Only one clean jump in SP.
How could she possibly earn over 200 with this jump content?
Yes, I’m confused as well. Man, I wish we had protocols.
 

Skatefan15

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Looking at Gracie’s score I was so confused because that program seemed like it could have been at least 100. What made Gracie 50 points worse than Mariah?? :scratch2:
 

Seren

Wakabond Forever
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Looking at Gracie’s score I was so confused because that program seemed like it could have been at least 100. What made Gracie 50 points worse than Mariah?? :scratch2:
Gracie deliberately singled her last 2 jumps- I assume we'll see her go for her entire content in the 2nd attempt. I think Mariah definitely got a little bit of a reputation bonus; not that she didn't skate well- she just only did one combo.
 

readernick

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Looking at Gracie’s score I was so confused because that program seemed like it could have been at least 100. What made Gracie 50 points worse than Mariah?? :scratch2:
Because Mariah did 6 clean jumps, and Gracie did essentially one clean triple the 3lz 2T, she has a 3Fe, and an Ur 3Lo and the rest of the jumps were doubles.

Bradie obviously landed more triples but she had a lot of URs....
 

Steinbeck

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Jul 15, 2016
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Yes, I’m confused as well. Man, I wish we had protocols.
I'm pretty sure this is why they don't make the protocols public. It's easier to leave it all cloudy. They can forgive or ignore URs, and puff up the GOEs and components to make the math add up.

Mariah is a beautiful and engaging skater, but with such low tech content she can't compete with Russian, Japanese or Korean skaters. From a PR standpoint, USFSA has to prop her scores up if they want her to look like she's even in the ballpark internationally.

I think this strategy of rewarding low tech content is a problem with USFS in terms of developing more tech-proficient skaters.
 

readernick

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I'm pretty sure this is why they don't make the protocols public. It's easier to leave it all cloudy. They can forgive or ignore URs, and puff up the GOEs and components to make the math add up.

Mariah is a beautiful and engaging skater, but with such low tech content she can't compete with Russian, Japanese or Korean skaters. From a PR standpoint, USFSA has to prop her scores up if they want her to look like she's even in the ballpark internationally.

I think this strategy of rewarding low tech content is a problem with USFS in terms of developing more tech-proficient skaters.
Honestly, no one in this competition was better technically. Was she overscored, yes. It is a national competition. Just look at the insane scores that Russia is giving their top skaters. All countries do it (except Japan)... but was she overscored in comparison to the other ladies, no。 She landed far more clean triples than anyone else in the competition. It is the early in the season and people have been on breaks from skating. No one is at their best. It isn't some grand conspiracy..
 
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Skatefan15

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Because Mariah did 6 clean jumps, and Gracie did essentially one clean triple the 3lz 2T, she has a 3Fe, and an Ur 3Lo and the rest of the jumps were doubles.

Bradie obviously landed more triples but she had a lot of URs....
Mariah’s lutz edge should generally be e or at least ! though. That’s the main reason I want to see protocols for this “event”, to see how many edge calls weren’t actually called:ROFLMAO:. Mariah did skate than Gracie, it was just hard for me to consider a 50 point difference, especially considering PCS, spins, and steps.
 

Steinbeck

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Honestly, no one in this competition was better technically. Was she overscored, yes. It is a national competition. Just look at the insane scores that Russia is giving their top skaters. All countries do it (except Japan)... but was she overscored in comparison to the other ladies, no。 She land far more clean triples than anyone else in the competition. It is the early in the season and people have been on breaks from skating. No one is at their best. It isn't some grand conspiracy..
I don't think it's a conspiracy or grand. It's just a strategy. ;) Also I think Thorngren may have been the best technically.
 
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sheetz

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Jan 10, 2015
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Judging for this competition was always going to be very handwavy just due to its very nature. Having a real tech controller would be pointless. It wouldn't surprise me if they simply asked all the judges to watch the programs and pick a number that sounded good to them.
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
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I've only watched a few of the programs, but one thing I noticed right away is that some of the skaters had a noticeably better videographer. And four of those - Nathan, Mariah, Calalang/Johnson and Knierim/Frazier -- skate at the same or adjacent rinks, and probably had the same person filming. The videos are more like they appear on TV or stream, with close-ups following them all around the rink.

With judges watching from their homes, I agree with @sheetz that the scores are at the very best a ball park figure, probably influenced more than usual by what the judges expected or hoped to see.

Personally, I am thrilled to see some of these programs, notably Nathan's, Mariah's, Carriera/Ponomorenko, Cain-Gribble/Leduc, and a dance team I wasn't familiar with, Pate/Bye, who skated for the joy and fun of it and were simply breathtaking -- to me, who has no knowledge of dance technique and no plans to remedy that situation.
 

zounger

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Mariah's step sequence looks promising, I think it will have a nice effect in real competition.
 

DanseMacabre

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Turns out she was never really there. It was all an illusion, a hallucination. Ghost Gracie scored 51 I think, (there was an out of focus video of someone who I think landed a 3Lutz3toe) I can't remember the long score, again though, none of it really ever happened. LOL (Her score, name, and video has disappeared, and on the Fan site, The women are now not accessible. Glad I saw most of of when I did, even if I had no clue who some of them were)
So they just scrubbed Gracie's entire existence from this event? Interesting...
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
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Honestly I think Chen fs has potential to be his best fs so far. I think the music choices are good and as long as he doesnt wear some drastically hideous baggy top I think the program will look very beautiful and sleek
Right now he's running it as if it's a training program and not a performance program.

But that's perfectly okay. In the previous GP series he peaked at the GPF. And here he's already demonstrated 4 quad FS and 4 types of quad between both programs. His 3A is also much more stable.


I'm extremely excited about the solo triple loop. He's not done that since before his quad loop competitions. We could be looking at a 6 quad FS with 5 different quads
 

Flying Feijoa

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Yay, very happy to hear of Nathan's music choices! I haven't seen anyone do Philip Glass since Jeff Buttle way back in the noughties :D

Dying to catch up with everyone's programmes but the NBC website hates me :( Senior Men's SP says it's not available and the LP video keeps freezing on me with whatever player they're using. I wish USFSA had an official Youtube channel instead.
 

katymay

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The Russian Cup was an in- person (possibly COVID spreading) , live broadcast on Russian TV ( Channel 1 which I believe is #1 channel in Russia 😉) with professional video crews. It can't be compared to an event where the kids coaches or parents are filming them, with. an online audience of perhaps a few thousand. That isn't realistic. Given the circumstances and constraints it is fine.
This wasn't Russian Cup, it was some kiddie competition being telecast by Mainstream. (And I mean 3-7 year olds) Programs were about a minute in length, and each kids name was posted, with the score etc. The point being, USFSA-drawing elite skaters, ought to do better. They could at least post the skaters name on the bottom of the video before he/she/they skate.
 

Ella5555

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Feb 14, 2018
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Though not perfect, I’m grateful to have anything figure skating wise. My little complaints are (as mentioned) having the names of the skaters up either during the skates or during a brief pause between skaters stating something like: Up next: Sean Rabbit. I also would hold on the skater’s last pose a second or two longer before switching to next skater. Obviously, a few skaters had far better videographers than others. I think that’s great, but other skaters should be able to have same quality - better for them, better for judges and better for viewers. I also would love to see the protocols released. Hopefully, all these things can be worked out in future. Since this is USFSA‘s first attempt at a virtual comp though, I’ll give them a break.
 

readernick

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Though not perfect, I’m grateful to have anything figure skating wise. My little complaints are (as mentioned) having the names of the skaters up either during the skates or during a brief pause between skaters stating something like: Up next: Sean Rabbit. I also would hold on the skater’s last pose a second or two longer before switching to next skater. Obviously, a few skaters had far better videographers than others. I think that’s great, but other skaters should be able to have same quality - better for them, better for judges and better for viewers. I also would love to see the protocols released. Hopefully, all these things can be worked out in future. Since this is USFSA‘s first attempt at a virtual comp though, I’ll give them a break.
These are all very reasonable requests and hopefully USFS will make these changes if they receive feedback. Perhaps some members can message then on social media with these suggestions. The other posters hoping for TV broadcastlike quality (Yes, even the tiny tots skating in Russia had a video crew) are being unreasonable.
 
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