USFS to Send Liu, Zhou to Nebelhorn Trophy | Page 2 | Golden Skate

USFS to Send Liu, Zhou to Nebelhorn Trophy

Jammers

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Nov 4, 2010
Hopefully Vincent plays it smart and doesn't go for too many quads in either the SP or LP which he sometimes is known for and decides going clean is more important. He's going there to qualify a 3rd US man at the Olympics and that should be his sole focus.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
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Jan 1, 2013
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I see that Jason being injured/having been injured this summer is not certain.
Jason himself noted that he "tweaked" his foot before Peggy Fleming Trophy, which was why he didn't compete there. That is the only official word. He has also posted video of himself doing off-ice 3As, and pictures of him jumping and posing all over Toronto with clear views of both feet, no sign of a boot or any foot injury and the jumping poses are not ones he would do if he was concerned about an injury.
I do still stand by my statement that the US federation cannot afford to put Vincent outside of their good graces. Even if Jason passes Vincent this season, I don't see a second US athlete passing him.
Zhou should count his lucky stars that the US never managed to replace that whole warmup group of men they lost between 2015-2018, otherwise USFS absolutely could "afford" to "put him outside their good graces", which frankly he would deserve after failing in what should have been the absolutely basic task of making the damn free skate at Worlds.

And Jason doesn't need to pass Vincent. He's already well ahead of him.
 

nussnacker

one and only
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Mar 16, 2019
Not sure if this was answered already, but I couldn’t find any info on this: how does Olympic spot assignment work at Nebelhorn? Do you have to be within top6, top 3, win in order to earn the preliminary “question mark” spot?
 

readernick

Medalist
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Taiwan
It depends on the discipline. There are 7 quotas left for the men, 6 for the women, 3 for pairs and 4 for ice dance. So Vincent needs to be top 7. Alysa needs to be top 6.
 
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mrrice

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Jul 9, 2014
Jason himself noted that he "tweaked" his foot before Peggy Fleming Trophy, which was why he didn't compete there. That is the only official word. He has also posted video of himself doing off-ice 3As, and pictures of him jumping and posing all over Toronto with clear views of both feet, no sign of a boot or any foot injury and the jumping poses are not ones he would do if he was concerned about an injury.

Zhou should count his lucky stars that the US never managed to replace that whole warmup group of men they lost between 2015-2018, otherwise USFS absolutely could "afford" to "put him outside their good graces", which frankly he would deserve after failing in what should have been the absolutely basic task of making the damn free skate at Worlds.

And Jason doesn't need to pass Vincent. He's already well ahead of him.
Well, if they both skate their best, this is not exactly true. Vincent's Base Value is quite a bit higher than Jason's and I still think Worlds was an anomaly when it comes to Vincent. If it were me, I'd send the same 3 men to the Olympics that we sent to Worlds.
 

bostonskaterguy86

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Well, if they both skate their best, this is not exactly true. Vincent's Base Value is quite a bit higher than Jason's and I still think Worlds was an anomaly when it comes to Vincent. If it were me, I'd send the same 3 men to the Olympics that we sent to Worlds.

I'm definitely in agreement with you here (and I'm a diehard Jason fan).

Jason should reliably beat Vincent's PCS every time (and has, as far as I can tell), but with four types of quads, Vincent's BV advantage is clear.

Knowing his reputation for underrotating, I watched his landings very closely at Cranberry (from the third row, which helped!). He's clearly been working on getting them rotated, and I think the tech panel got it mostly right. The 4S in combo was definitely under, and the opening 4Lz looked on the quarter to me (given he got negative GOE on it I think the judges saw the same thing I did), but the rest of his jumps looked all the way around to me.

I also agree that his Worlds SP was a fluke. Despite the coaching change, balancing skating with school, and all of the COVID insanity, he skated pretty well for the rest of the 2020-2021 season. I wouldn't count on him having another disaster of those proportions.

Provided he skates at or above the level he did at Cranberry throughout the season, I think he's a clear favorite for the Olympic team, alongside Nathan and Jason.
 

mrrice

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Jul 9, 2014
Zhou has now been to three Worlds.

He's blown two.

The good performance is now the anomaly, not the bad ones.
Karne....Look, at least Vincent has a Medal to show for his efforts. How many times did Jeremy Abbott ( Whom I love ) go to Worlds and come away with ZERO Medals. Even Max, My Sparkplug, never medaled at Worlds and that is why I just can't write Vincent off. As I've said before, I don't expect the Fed to "Hold Him Up" and it will be his job to earn his way on to the team. I think he's in the same position as Ross Miner. He won the Silver in 2018 and was passed over by the "Committee". Vincent will need to have a strong GP season and spectacular Nationals to make the team. I think he can do it but, it's all up to him.
 

Jammers

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Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Karne....Look, at least Vincent has a Medal to show for his efforts. How many times did Jeremy Abbott ( Whom I love ) go to Worlds and come away with ZERO Medals. Even Max, My Sparkplug, never medaled at Worlds and that is why I just can't write Vincent off. As I've said before, I don't expect the Fed to "Hold Him Up" and it will be his job to earn his way on to the team. I think he's in the same position as Ross Miner. He won the Silver in 2018 and was passed over by the "Committee". Vincent will need to have a strong GP season and spectacular Nationals to make the team. I think he can do it but, it's all up to him.
Vincent is anything but in the same position as Ross was in 2018. For one thing there was a lot more depth in US Men's in 2018 and more skaters to choose from over Ross. Plus you are talking about someone who has made the podium four of the last five Nationals and hasn't finished worse then 4th. Vincent doesn't even have to be spectacular just getting on the podium will be enough to be sent to Beijing.
 

mrrice

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Jul 9, 2014
Vincent is anything but in the same position as Ross was in 2018. For one thing there was a lot more depth in US Men's in 2018 and more skaters to choose from over Ross. Plus you are talking about someone who has made the podium four of the last five Nationals and hasn't finished worse then 4th. Vincent doesn't even have to be spectacular just getting on the podium will be enough to be sent to Beijing.
I completely agree. I would also add that Ross never made a World Podium and that's why I'll keep the faith with Vincent. He'll either skate well and medal, or he won't. It's in his hands. With 3 spots, if Vincent is on the Podium at Nationals, he should go to the games. If I'm on the "Committee" I'm sending Vincent. There isn't a US Man out there that beats a clean Vincent other than Nathan.
 
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el henry

Fangirl of men’s spirals and split jumps
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I am somewhere in the middle.

i think “good” Vincent is obviously an extremely strong skater with high BV. And his performance chops have improved greatly. But Worlds 2021 was not a one off. Vincent does from time to time tank. And when he tanks, he tanks. :eek:

So we can't excuse Vincent's Worlds 2021 performance as completely out of character, nor can we ignore his potential to score highly. And should Vincent actually blow Nebelhorn (and I do not think he will, but taking into account the possibility) I don't think potentially high BV should be the end all and be all for Olympic selections.

My two cents :)
 

mrrice

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Joined
Jul 9, 2014
I am somewhere in the middle.

i think “good” Vincent is obviously an extremely strong skater with high BV. And his performance chops have improved greatly. But Worlds 2021 was not a one off. Vincent does from time to time tank. And when he tanks, he tanks. :eek:

So we can't excuse Vincent's Worlds 2021 performance as completely out of character, nor can we ignore his potential to score highly. And should Vincent actually blow Nebelhorn (and I do not think he will, but taking into account the possibility) I don't think potentially high BV should be the end all and be all for Olympic selections.

My two cents :)
I agree. Nebelhorn will be telling for Vincent. He doesn't "Need" to win but. I think it would help his Olympic Case if he does. He is certainly capable of winning the event and I'm sure he and his team know it. I'm also sure he's feeling the pressure as it seems that everyone is doubting his ability. I truly hope he withstands the pressure and has 2 amazing programs at Nebelhorn.
 

Ella5555

On the Ice
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Feb 14, 2018
I agree. Nebelhorn will be telling for Vincent. He doesn't "Need" to win but. I think it would help his Olympic Case if he does. He is certainly capable of winning the event and I'm sure he and his team know it. I'm also sure he's feeling the pressure as it seems that everyone is doubting his ability. I truly hope he withstands the pressure and has 2 amazing programs at Nebelhorn.
I think Vincent will win Nebelhorn considering his competition (or, at minimum, confirm the third spot for the U.S.). He is not my favorite skater, but I don’t understand the constant negative comments (not your comment, mrrice) about him (and yes, I’m fully aware of his history). I’d just prefer to wait and see how he does.
 
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TontoK

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Jan 28, 2013
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United-States
I think Vincent will win Nebelhorn considering his competition (or, at minimum, confirm the third spot for the U.S.). He is not my favorite skater, but I don’t understand the constant negative comments (not your comment, mrrice) about him (and yes, I’m fully aware of his history). I’d just prefer to wait and see how he does.

I have suspicions about the reasons behind constant negative opinions about Vincent, but I'll keep them to myself in the absence of proof.

Your last sentence echos my sentiments exactly. The season is not even fully underway yet, and in any event the Olympic Team will not be decided on the basis of internet fan forums. Let the athletes skate as the season unfolds, and we'll see where we are when the dust settles.
 

Tahuu

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 3, 2014
Vincent is most likely to win Nebelhorn. But confirming the 3rd Olympic spot or not, he’ll get picked to the US Olympic team. There’s no chance usfs wouldn’t select someone who could, misses allowed, land 5 quads in the Olympic team event, 7 quads in the Olympic individual events and score over 300 to the Games.
 
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