WADA Compliance Review Committee / RUSADA

Edwin

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Jan 5, 2019
I think it's also another one of WADA's problem. They have general list for all of the sports. Recently they banned top 1 bridge player.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/47420065

The 'dope race' is like a cat and mouse game. There will always new 'wonder drugs' invented, new even more clever ways to circumvent the system, evade detection.

It's like in war, human ingenuity knows no limits when it comes to knocking out your opponent.
 

samkrut@mail.ru

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
(Also I need to look up London 2012. Afaik other that the TUE thing which the investigation was spearheaded by the British government rightly or wrongly I’ve heard nothing to suggest any irregularities.)

Rodchenkov wrote a new open letter. Of course, most of it is blaming Russia and rejoicing about the sanctions. What a moron. Was he tortured or OK just threatened to do what he did? He lived a wealthy life, his salary was $20,000 a month, he travelled abroad bringing forbidden stuff and trading it. Now, it's "Russia". It's never about "Russia" or "Prussia" - it's about particular people making particular choices, himself included. But that's not my point.

In his letter Rodchenkov urges WADA to urgently intensify London games investigation because with 8 year limit it will be too late soon. Apparently, he knows something about it. And no matter how big a crook he is, he knows the business. For one thing, it was he who caught Ben Johnson.
 

KOBOT37

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Meldonium is extremely common drug in post soviet states and huge amount of people, athletes or not, use it.

but my point was that, I think, usage of meldonium was a accident caused by lack of knowledge, not intentional cheating.
 

Edwin

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Jan 5, 2019
And still the Russians are angry at WADA instead of their own sports ministry and tainted high ranking officials.

The legal guns are being loaded for the CAS case. There could be challenges, counter challenges, lengthy juridicial battles over bits and bytes in the database, timings of server access down to the millisecond.
Then about the extent of measures/sanctions, they could be strengthened, could be lightened. The final ruling could take months, half a year, more than a year?

If no Russian flag, emblem and anthems are allowed in the playing field, spectator admission to the stands by non-Russian passport only? All 'Russia' paraphernalia and symbols forbidden and confiscated so as not to allow any undermining and provocation of the LOC?

There still is no answer about judges, referees etc. Are there protocols in place? Many, if not all have sworn oaths of honesty and objectivity, so should be impartial, those with Olympic brevets at least have taken the oath, will that oath still stand when 'neutered'?. How are IOC and the sports' governing bodies going to ensure equal representation by federation amongst the judiciary in all sports? How will those judges be labeled and how will they like this, neutral judges judging over neutral athletes they know by name and nationality as belonging to their federation?

If Russia's Olympic Committee isn't banned, apart from those named officials, will those Olympic brevet judges still represent Russia?

Plus only the highest prestige sporting events seem to be covered, not the commercial ones or events by governing bodies that haven't signed the WADA code. How is fair play and decent spectator behaviour guaranteed when 'the wrong team' is about to lose and rabid nationalism raises its ugly head, orchestrated or not? Many team sports have rather a lot of hooligans amongst their 'supporters' and they will seek any provocation.

So many questions, both ethical and practical ....

Where should lesser Russian athletes be tested now RUSADA is without a license? FFKKR still demands all of its active skating member to bring their RUSADA doping awareness certificate to all competitions they enter themselves.
 

VenusHalley

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
Meldonium is extremely common drug in post soviet states and huge amount of people, athletes or not, use it.

but my point was that, I think, usage of meldonium was a accident caused by lack of knowledge, not intentional cheating.

Accident? They tripped and fell into some meldonium...


And we are gonna have this debate for next four years, Russians are gonna dope away, while crying crocodile tears about how their lives has no sense if they cannot see their flag on Olympics... rinse, repeat another slap on the wrist "ban" likely to follow.
 

DSQ

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Country
United-Kingdom
I read some articles - there was always something very close but it was never 100% hit. Something like that:

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cy...lower-in-british-doping-doctor-investigation/

On the one hand, 150 UK athletes received doping from just 1 doctor. On the other hand, there was no hard proof. Like Armstrong until the very end denied being doped - this guy just says: "I don't know what you are talking about". What is even more important, there was no such desperate desire to find the proof like in Russian case. No films by a German "investigative journalist", some inconclusive reactions to whisstle blowers, etc. Double standards.

Interesting, thank you. I’m an optimist and would like to think that if there’s no evidence then that they’re innocent.

However your final point is correct, because of the political climate there is more impetus to find wrong doing in Russia. This doesn’t mean the doping didn’t happen. However surely with more than 6 months until Tokyo if they ban RUSADA and have all Russian athletes be tested by another country it would be okay? Then if athletes miss test in this next 6 month period they’ll have been warned the risk of being banned and they’ll be evidence that at every competition in the 6 months leading up to Tokyo every Russian athlete was clean.

Figure skating is sort of a innocent bystander in all this which is unfortunate.
 

DSQ

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Country
United-Kingdom
Rodchenkov wrote a new open letter. Of course, most of it is blaming Russia and rejoicing about the sanctions. What a moron. Was he tortured or OK just threatened to do what he did? He lived a wealthy life, his salary was $20,000 a month, he travelled abroad bringing forbidden stuff and trading it. Now, it's "Russia". It's never about "Russia" or "Prussia" - it's about particular people making particular choices, himself included. But that's not my point.

In his letter Rodchenkov urges WADA to urgently intensify London games investigation because with 8 year limit it will be too late soon. Apparently, he knows something about it. And no matter how big a crook he is, he knows the business. For one thing, it was he who caught Ben Johnson.

Thank you I’ll look up the letter.
 

Finley

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 19, 2014
Rodchenkov wrote a new open letter. Of course, most of it is blaming Russia and rejoicing about the sanctions. What a moron. Was he tortured or OK just threatened to do what he did? He lived a wealthy life, his salary was $20,000 a month, he travelled abroad bringing forbidden stuff and trading it. Now, it's "Russia". It's never about "Russia" or "Prussia" - it's about particular people making particular choices, himself included. But that's not my point.

In his letter Rodchenkov urges WADA to urgently intensify London games investigation because with 8 year limit it will be too late soon. Apparently, he knows something about it. And no matter how big a crook he is, he knows the business. For one thing, it was he who caught Ben Johnson.

It also deserves to be pointed out that he is still alive. More than can be said for his two colleagues who died within two weeks of each other.
 

Edwin

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Jan 5, 2019
It also deserves to be pointed out that he is still alive. More than can be said for his two colleagues who died within two weeks of each other.

He stiil runs the risk of finding Novichok on his door handle, or polonium in his food when he visits this nice Russian restaurant once in a while.

How about those athletes brave enough to rise against their federation or government?

Do those stripped dopers still compete domestically or are they now respected coaches with lots of useful knowledge? Are there any known deaths and life turning after effects amongst those lucky ones who achieved their stripped results through chemistry?
 

Edwin

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Jan 5, 2019
ISU issued a statement: https://www.isu.org/isu-news/news/1...e-russian-anti-doping-agency?templateParam=15

"The ISU acknowledges the December 9, 2019 decision of the WADA Executive Committee unanimously endorsing a four year period of non-compliance for the Russian Anti-Doping Agency and related consequences.

As indicated by the WADA Media Release of December 9, the ISU, same as other stakeholders, will liaise with WADA to clarify the next steps while bearing in mind that the case may still be appealed to the Court of Arbitration of Sport (CAS). This will involve in particular, but not limited to, the definition of “Major Events”, the identification and formalization of a list of concerned athletes not allowed to participate in Major Events staged in the Four-Year-Period and other sanction related practical details.

The ISU noted that given the timing, the sanctions will not apply for the Winter Youth Olympic Games in Lausanne/Switzerland during January 2020.

The ISU will inform its Members and stakeholders as soon as the above-mentioned clarification process with WADA allows to do so."
 

ribbit

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Are there any known deaths and life turning after effects amongst those lucky ones who achieved their stripped results through chemistry?

It may be too early to see long-term consequences from current methods of doping (not only those in question in the current scandal). However, there is good reason to be concerned. Athletes from the former East Germany who were doped without their knowledge or consent have spoken out about the severe long-term damage to their health that resulted:

https://globalsportmatters.com/health/2019/11/07/ex-east-german-athletes-struggle-with-health-problems-due-to-the-consequences-of-ped-taking/
 

Edwin

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It may be too early to see long-term consequences from current methods of doping (not only those in question in the current scandal). However, there is good reason to be concerned. Athletes from the former East Germany who were doped without their knowledge or consent have spoken out about the severe long-term damage to their health that resulted:

https://globalsportmatters.com/health/2019/11/07/ex-east-german-athletes-struggle-with-health-problems-due-to-the-consequences-of-ped-taking/

That was the old style crude hormone type dope, right? Women with beards kind of stuff? Administered to then teenage girls w/o their consent, w/o their parents knowing what was in the cocktails injected??

Modern dope is probably much more subtle and better engineered, i.e. effectiveness vs half life and side effects, but I am also referring to psychological effects, addiction, serious withdrawal symptoms and such. Probably very much a taboo unless the inflicted speak out themselves. I have little sympathy for those bobsleigh hulks who are adults and fully consented, but there must have been minors too, trusting their doctors.
 

ribbit

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
That was the old style crude hormone type dope, right? Women with beard kind of stuff? Administered to then teenage girls w/o their consent, w/o their parents knowing what was in the cocktails injected??

Modern dope is probably much more subtle and better engineered, i.e. effectiveness vs half life, but I am also referring to psychological effects, addiction and such. Probably very much a taboo unless the inflicted speak out themselves. I have little sympathy for those bobsleigh hulks who are adults and fully consented, but there must have been minors too, trusting their doctors.

East Germany was using mostly anabolic steroids, although I notice that the article also draws attention to methods of blood doping used by American athletes that were not illegal at the time but were banned soon after. The article--which is really a review of many articles from American, British, and German sources--discusses cases of adult men and women as well as teenage girls, who suffered consequences ranging from hepatitis to heart disease to cancer to diabetes to miscarriage. It also goes into the psychological effects you're asking about, not only of the steroids, but of the knowledge that your medals were won through illegal methods. As you say, it's unlikely that we will know much about those effects unless the athletes themselves are brave enough to speak out, as the East German athletes have been.
 

samkrut@mail.ru

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
It also deserves to be pointed out that he is still alive. More than can be said for his two colleagues who died within two weeks of each other.

The irony, if one can apply this word is that once he claimed that those deaths were the reasons of his leaving Russia while he left Russia a month before they died. May be his conscience (if this word can apply to him) told him that he could be the reason of their deaths and it was just a defensive reaction.
 

Finley

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 19, 2014
The irony, if one can apply this word is that once he claimed that those deaths were the reasons of his leaving Russia while he left Russia a month before they died. May be his conscience (if this word can apply to him) told him that he could be the reason of their deaths and it was just a defensive reaction.

Unless he killed them himself, he was not the reason for their deaths. Officially they both died of natural causes. I believe something heart-related. Within two weeks of each other.

How could he have prevented their deaths by staying in the country? He'd be dead of himself of a convenient 'heart related issue'. It seems based on his previous life experience he knew he had to get out when he did in order to avoid a similar outcome for himself. He was lucky to have a means of escape.


Every now and then I think about the fact that people sort of tacitly acknowledge these two men were probably murdered by their own government to make sure they couldn't provide any corroborating evidence of a state sponsored doping program, and the world's reaction to that is just ....well it happens. What are you gonna do? Two men just doing their job as they were instructed/ordered to do it by their superiors. Eliminated. Not arrested, charged, tried, imprisoned or even questioned.

These men's lives, former athlete's legacies, innocent athlete's futures for years to come, have all been sacrificed to protect the ones who don't want to take responsibility, admit wrong doing, and face consequences of their actions.

Even if they review all of the test results. Even if they strip all the unjustly earned medals from athletes who doped. Even if they correct the record books and attempt some form of restorative justice to the athlete's who were robbed of their rightfully earned titles - its years too late. And it's not enough. The people who deserve to be punished more harshly than WADA, the IOC, or any other sports entity is capable of punishing them, will never be touched. They got away with it.

I wonder if the injustice that will be visited on the innocent athletes of today and for years to come will be enough to motivate someone to expose the people who deserve to be punished? I hope so.
 

samkrut@mail.ru

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Unless he killed them himself, he was not the reason for their deaths. Officially they both died of natural causes. I believe something heart-related. Within two weeks of each other.

How could he have prevented their deaths by staying in the country? He'd be dead of himself of a convenient 'heart related issue'. It seems based on his previous life experience he knew he had to get out when he did in order to avoid a similar outcome for himself. He was lucky to have a means of escape.


Every now and then I think about the fact that people sort of tacitly acknowledge these two men were probably murdered by their own government to make sure they couldn't provide any corroborating evidence of a state sponsored doping program, and the world's reaction to that is just ....well it happens. What are you gonna do? Two men just doing their job as they were instructed/ordered to do it by their superiors. Eliminated. Not arrested, charged, tried, imprisoned or even questioned.

These men's lives, former athlete's legacies, innocent athlete's futures for years to come, have all been sacrificed to protect the ones who don't want to take responsibility, admit wrong doing, and face consequences of their actions.

Even if they review all of the test results. Even if they strip all the unjustly earned medals from athletes who doped. Even if they correct the record books and attempt some form of restorative justice to the athlete's who were robbed of their rightfully earned titles - its years too late. And it's not enough. The people who deserve to be punished more harshly than WADA, the IOC, or any other sports entity is capable of punishing them, will never be touched. They got away with it.

I wonder if the injustice that will be visited on the innocent athletes of today and for years to come will be enough to motivate someone to expose the people who deserve to be punished? I hope so.

It's all conspiracy theories and allegations.

It could be as well possible that as soon as the mastermind of the whole scheme ran to the U.S.A. everyone in Russia realized what will follow. These 2 guys could be under very big stress that they would become scapegoats. The reasons of their deaths could be natural. And that these two cases happened during the same month - that was exactly the month after Rodchenkov defected.

Heart of males is a fragile thing. By 50 I already had 3 heart surgeries... It's very rewarding to solve a puzzle...when there is the puzzle to solve.

And if he did not run 90%+ nothing would happen. Because the only evidence all these reports had was based on Rodchenkov himself.
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
That was the old style crude hormone type dope, right? Women with beards kind of stuff? Administered to then teenage girls w/o their consent, w/o their parents knowing what was in the cocktails injected??

Modern dope is probably much more subtle and better engineered, i.e. effectiveness vs half life and side effects, but I am also referring to psychological effects, addiction, serious withdrawal symptoms and such. Probably very much a taboo unless the inflicted speak out themselves. I have little sympathy for those bobsleigh hulks who are adults and fully consented, but there must have been minors too, trusting their doctors.

Also thank you. And if these minors were given PEDs without their informed consent, then your comment above is even more pertinent.
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Are Putinss hands clean and all of this? Wasn't it his job to make sure all this s*** got cleaned up?
 
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