WADA Compliance Review Committee / RUSADA

beachmouse

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 23, 2017
Do those stripped dopers still compete domestically or are they now respected coaches with lots of useful knowledge? Are there any known deaths and life turning after effects amongst those lucky ones who achieved their stripped results through chemistry?

One of the reasons why the Russian federation seems to be on permaban with the IAAF is that there is evidence they allowed a banned coach and his athletes to compete at a high level domestic meeting (which might have been part of the selection process for international teams) while those athletes were serving an international doping suspension. There's a little info here:

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.co...ion-faces-iaaf-2015jan15-story.html?_amp=true

I wish that Evan Dunfee's old blog where he first raised questions about the event was still up because the comments on 'shoegate'- the meeting organizers later tried to claim that the pictures of the athletes under doping bans were from 2012 and just mislabeled on the web site- were an interesting lesson on how Nike, adidas, etc. may or may not release apparel to sponsored athletes before it's for sale to the general public, the timeline for that, and how even if Ivan or Irina had gotten an early version of those shoes or a singlet in that fabric, there was still now way anyone would have had those shoes on a race in 2012 unless actual time travel was involved.
 

KOBOT37

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Rodchenkov's entire story has huge logical flaws.

First of all, his family members claim that 'he received threats' and worked with FSB,so,to avoid death, he had to run to the USA.

First, why? Assuming he wasn't working 'against' state sponsored doping program when he received threats, why did Russian government threatened him? What was the point of it? If we believe him, he was working with FSB and not as a cleaning lady but as an important part of serious intelligence operation, that,by default means that,he signed couple NDAs and since day 1 working with FSB he knew what disclosing secret information meant,at best, lengthy prison sentence. This brings a question: what was Rodchenkov doing during his last months in Russia?

Secondly, you aren't going to buy ticket in Russia without FSB knowing and most certainly,you aren't getting past passport control at Russian border without FSB knowing. Rodchenkov claims that he was on FSBs kill list and he got out of the country just like it ? US managed to keep Snowden in limbo in HK (that is CHINA) for weeks and you are telling me that, FSB sent death threats to Rodchenkov, knew that he was working with American journalists (who in turn, was working on doping documentary), at least suspected that something was wrong and Rodchenkov bought a ticket, got past passport control, boarded a plane and all this didn't cause 'alert' jumping on a monitor in FSB building ? Sorry but... that isn't intelligence agencies roll, especially when they have somebody on watchlist,double especially when they have somebody on their 'kill list'. If FSB really cared about him, he would be dead the second he bought plane tickets or if he was very lucky guy, he would be dead the second he gave his passport to Russian border official.

Regarding to 2 RUSADA officials who died with heart attack. None of us here know what part did they play in entire doping scandal or what kind of pressure they were under from Russian sports officials. High ranking officials telling you to take all the blame on yourself and go to prison for 10 years may cause a heart attack without help from any chemicals,so can being actually guilty in something which is about to be revealed. Sure, Intelligence agencies kill people if they need to silence them, but without any evidence or good argument it is just an conspiracy theory.
 

removof

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Russians athlètes will be participate at world championship with neutral status?

What will happen about Stepanova Bukin situation?
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
Russians athlètes will be participate at world championship with neutral status?

What will happen about Stepanova Bukin situation?
For now yes.
However if a different appeal from some committee will pass, all Russian athletes will be banned from participating in all events, regardless if they’re clean.
 

asingingwife

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 30, 2018
If Russia is eventually totally banned, do you think their athletes would be forgiven/released to skate for other countries? Although they might not want to I'm thinking for someone like Evgenia, if she can qualify this would most likely be her last Olympics. A switch to Canada if she has no option to skate for Russia would make sense (though sadly I doubt she would).
 

lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
If Russia is eventually totally banned, do you think their athletes would be forgiven/released to skate for other countries? Although they might not want to I'm thinking for someone like Evgenia, if she can qualify this would most likely be her last Olympics. A switch to Canada if she has no option to skate for Russia would make sense (though sadly I doubt she would).

I certainly wouldn’t find it surprising if they did so, but given how minuscule figureskater’s earnings are vs other sports, losing their clubs, coaches and ranks/salary/connections in Russia will leave them missing a season and rebuilding their lives in the year prior to Olympics. Given that those the most likely to stay with Russia are those with medal hopes, and how sport sponsorship is usually result-oriented, it is probably highly unlikely.

Medvedeva is an interesting suggestion though, and almost feels like probable. It would be nice to see her get a few more years in the international competitions— but that highlights the problems of sport competitions being conducted by national affiliation. Medvedeva who sits out a year, and sings O, Canada is welcome at the Worlds and 4CC, but otherwise — not good enough...

It also in no way addresses the WADA concern that all Russian athletes are either juicing or didn’t get caught yet. Really, how is Tursynbasva and Kvitelashvili different than their clubmates that they receive a vote of confidence?

Russians are Russians, let them be what they want to be and represent/stand for. You already see the second generation skating for Canada and States now anyway.
 

beachmouse

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 23, 2017
If Russia is eventually totally banned, do you think their athletes would be forgiven/released to skate for other countries? Although they might not want to I'm thinking for someone like Evgenia, if she can qualify this would most likely be her last Olympics. A switch to Canada if she has no option to skate for Russia would make sense (though sadly I doubt she would).

It seems likely that nationality change approvals would be at the international governing body of the sport level, and figure skating has traditionally had a relatively very easy nationality change process due to the pairs & dance partner compatibility issues. Other sports where there were larger concerns that countries were outright buying themselves medals at elite competition (*cough* Qatar and the UAE *cough*) tend to be much stricter on what's allowed once an athlete has started to hit international competition standards.
 

LanaD

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 25, 2018
I feel that even discussing/saying/considering a possibility that all athletes from Russia should be banned from all events is very sad. Just imagine that you have a neighborhood, maybe poor, maybe with a history of crimes etc etc, and your rich wealthy neighborhoods decided that they cannot accept such behavior anymore. So they will make sure that no single kid from that neighborhood will be allowed anymore to participate in any activities their kids are in.. They think they do this in protection, and in order to teach those "bad" people, they think they doing good thing. But what about those kids from bad neighborhood, they are talented, they work hard, they love their homes and people.. Doesn't it called bulling? Yea, we don't want to see them with us, nothing will change them....

~~~

If I say that it was probably you who was holding a poster with flag of Russia in Las Vegas during dance competitions to cheer Stepanova/Bukin after their free dance (which was great!) - one interesting detail about the poster - it has the words "STEP ON ME" right by the flag... And when you see yourself on that big screen, you became so excited, so proud to show how you hate Russia, and your friend who sits by you laughs in disbelief that you were able to accomplish your goal and covering her face...
So, if I say that it was probably you doing this, you, I assume, will be so mad and ill, how dare i may think so bad about you! But if you do not like russians, why it would not be you.. see I am bias now.

But then, please think, how the athletes should be feeling when they are accused of doping and not allowed to participate in Olympics (we can go back to Bukin as an example).

The amount of hate in our world is enormous, i did not want to hear about dirty politics, but I love skating, signed up and taking adult lessons, decide to join the Goldenskate, so i can check myself how good i am in predicting, bought a season pass for NBC sport just to able to see all major event in figure skating, but then seen something like that with the flag, reading comments full of hate, make you thinking - maybe I am wrong, do i really so damn and do not understand how evil the Russians... I guess this is how propaganda supposed to work.. everything what Russians do is "crap", and "Nobody should defend that crap"

Sorry, if I hurt anyone, I just feel that i have to say something here. And it is OK, you can say any bad words you have to me.
 
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VenusHalley

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
Alena should be mad at her government for trying to cover up doping over and over. Not at the mean world. Alena is lucky she will be able to skate at all in Olympics, if she is not grinded out by medal machine by then... Russian flag or Olympic flag... rag like a rag. Alina's has gotten plenty of glory and sponsorship skating under Olympic flag... would she gotten ANOTHER Japanese or American company to line up to use her face in their campaign had she skated under Russian flag? Naaah. It was her performance that mattered.

And believe me, Czech army is not that powerful to kill "millions".
 

Edwin

СделаноВХрустальном!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
And still many if not most Russians blame the big bad world instead of their sports ministry and high ranking officials (who all have filled their pockets off the billions spent on 2014 OG, 2018 Soccer WC and will fill their pockets some more off 2020 UEFA and all the remaining big sporting events where the government spends money on to bolster its image under the ban? Money they safely harbour in Switzerland, Liechtenstein etc, mind you, so should they fall from grace, their fortunes remain theirs, or their spouses and children ( who often prefer to live abroad for reasons ... )

Does the typical average common tax payer on normal wages ever concerns him/herself over this, demand accountancy and transparency from the government?
 

Alex65

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Country
Russia
Eh, I protested the Iraq war at the time. There are few people who do not think that the whole thing was a huge mistake. But it's not like my country started it, lol.
I and any ordinary Russian person will not welcome the use of doping in sports. You will not meet in Russia
people raising their voices in support of Russian athletes caught in doping, though. Doping was not invented in Russia, lol.

i am embarrassed for our politicians when they act horribly. Like stealing pens, being all pro-Russian, stealing EU money...
I am also ashamed that Russian sports officials are not able to protect pure athletes my country.

But well, we still can go and protest in streets, petition and make our voice heard. Maybe that is the difference...
Russian politicians, and sports officials playing their dark games behind the backs of athletes, receive great contempt and ridicule and resent them openly in the press and among people. NO, we don’t go out (some go) to protest all of this. Because the inspirers of all this do not live on my street, and do not even live in my country. So what is the difference?
 

Nord Stream 2

Match Penalty
Joined
Apr 14, 2019
Alena should be mad at her government for trying to cover up doping over and over. Not at the mean world. Alena is lucky she will be able to skate at all in Olympics, if she is not grinded out by medal machine by then... Russian flag or Olympic flag... rag like a rag. Alina's has gotten plenty of glory and sponsorship skating under Olympic flag... would she gotten ANOTHER Japanese or American company to line up to use her face in their campaign had she skated under Russian flag? Naaah. It was her performance that mattered.

And believe me, Czech army is not that powerful to kill "millions".

If for you the flag is a rag ... We here in Russia do not think so. And do not measure everything with money and contracts with sponsors. This is probably why we have the largest country in the world.
The Czech does not need a strong army. Your country knows unconsciously that in difficult times stupid Russians will come and help the Slavic brothers. The last time it cost us 27,000,000 lives.
 

Edwin

СделаноВХрустальном!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
Figures: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Russia
https://www.ganintegrity.com/portal/country-profiles/russia/
https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/corruption-index
https://www.npr.org/2019/01/29/6896...n-corruption-saying-its-unavoidable-sometimes
https://www.coe.int/en/web/corruption/anti-corruption-digest/russian-federation
https://www.fpri.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/buckley.pdf
http://src-home.slav.hokudai.ac.jp/sympo/03september/pdf/M_Suhara.pdf

... from the first page of a Google search on the subject ...

Is there any unbiased independent native Russian study on this subject?

Talk all you want, two wrongs don't make a right. Deep rooted corruption runs through all layers of society, has infested all professions, and that might include yours ...
It also makes demanding changes in culture so much more difficult, since you will cut your own flesh ...

And it sort of sustains the common public impression that cheating in sports is allowed "since everybody does it"? Which is the main theme of this thread after all. State organised doping programs are a corruption of sports.
 

GS Forum Staff

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Please abide by Goldenskate guidelines:

— Politics or posts that are political or religious in nature
GS is an international forum and embraces members of all cultures, therefore, it is not the place to discuss politics or religion.
 

ssffww

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 30, 2015
Oops, I responded before I realized we should not be responding to political posts. Fortunately, it did not get posted. Won't happen again.
 

lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
Olympic flag is not a rag. It is an expression of a now-unfashionable hope that the world may come together one day. Everyone in the Olympics competes under that flag first, and the national one second. If Russians that have international record of no wrongdoing are allowed to compete and elect to, it is a wonderful flag to fly
 

VenusHalley

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
Olympic flag is not a rag. It is an expression of a now-unfashionable hope that the world may come together one day. Everyone in the Olympics competes under that flag first, and the national one second. If Russians that have international record of no wrongdoing are allowed to compete and elect to, it is a wonderful flag to fly

You are actually right, eh.
I am just irritated with how some people obsess about not being able to compete under their national flag after their country and state run doping system robbed many of their moments of joy. How many athletes received medals by post months later and did not have chance for their victory lap, being in photos with their medals... and yes, the sponsorships, which are important too, because professional sports cost good money...
 
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