Your ideal program format | Golden Skate
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Your ideal program format

What would you like to see as the final round of singles skating competitions?

  • Jump Contest

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Jump Program

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Jump-heavy well-balanced program

    Votes: 9 23.7%
  • Moderate-jump well-balanced program

    Votes: 20 52.6%
  • Artistic program

    Votes: 7 18.4%
  • Entertainment program

    Votes: 2 5.3%

  • Total voters
    38

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Clearly Golden Skate members have different opinions about what kind of skating they most enjoy watching and what direction they'd like to see the sport develop in.

Imagine you're envisioning what the final/decisive competition phase for singles skaters should look like in 10 years. What any earlier phase(s) should look like could be determined afterward, possibly replacing the current short program with something like one of the other options below, or something else to be defined later.

Below are some possible approaches. Which one would you personally like best? Feel free to post adjustments to how you would change or refine the rules I sketched out here, within the general concept of the type of event you select.


Jump Contest: 4:00 minutes ± 10 seconds. Music optional. A whistle will blow when your time is up.

The object is to complete as much jump difficulty as possible during the allotted time. No limits on number of jump attempts or number of combinations/sequences or number of jumps within a combination or sequence. Quints are added to the scale of values. Should there be limits on repeats/rewards for variety of takeoffs?

No rules about what skaters may or may not do between jump attempts. Stroke around? Practice footwork? Practice backspins? Flirt with the audience? Retie your skate? Stand at the boards to drink water and blow your nose? It’s all good!

A tech panel will identify jump elements, including calling +COMBO or +SEQ as under 2024 rules for valid sequences and to identify when stepping down between jumps invalidates the rest of the combination/sequence.

AI will determine the height, length, and speed in and out of each jump and bonuses (or negative modifiers?) will be applied to the base values based on these measures.

Judges will award negative GOE only.

No points for non-jump elements, non-listed jumps, or PCS.



Jump Program: 4:00 minutes ± 10 seconds. Music required.

Similar to the above except for an added rule that skaters must keep moving across the ice surface on their blades, except of course while in the air for jumps and except for allowed choreographic stops or slides of no more than 5 seconds each.

Skaters can do whatever they want on the ice between the jumps, but there will be no points for any non-jump elements.

AI will determine the height, length, and speed in and out of each jump and bonuses (or negative modifiers?) will be applied to the base values based on these measures.

Judges will award both positive and negative GOEs, and both Presentation and Skating Skills components.



Jump-heavy “well-balanced” program: 4:00 minutes ± 10 seconds. Music required.

7 or 8 jump passes with 3 combos/sequences permitted. Zayak rule applies. Maximum of 1 quintuple jump.

3 leveled spins, 1 leveled step sequence.

Positive and negative GOEs for all elements, program components for Composition, Presentation, and Skating Skills.

AI-based scoring modifiers may be incorporated to all relevant technical elements.



Moderate-jump “well-balanced” program:
4:00 minutes ± 10 seconds. Music required.

5 or 6 jump passes with 2 combos/sequences permitted. No quints.

3 leveled spins, 1 leveled step sequence, 1 choreographic sequence.

Positive and negative GOEs for all elements, program components for Composition, Presentation, and Skating Skills.

AI-based scoring modifiers may be incorporated to all relevant technical elements.



“Artistic” program: 3:30 minutes ± 10 seconds. Music required.

3 or 4 jump passes with 1 combo/sequence permitted. No quints; maximum of 2 quads for men, 1 quad and 1 triple axel or 2 triple axels for women.

1 or 2 leveled spins, 1 leveled step sequence, 2 or 3 choreographic elements to be chosen from Choreo Spin, Choreo Step Sequence, Choreo Field Moves Sequence, Choreo Signature Move (to be defined). It is permissible to include 2 choreo elements from the same category if they are of different types within the category (e.g., a choreo upright spin and a choreo deathdrop; a rink-length Ina Bauer and a backflip). “Different” may be very clearly defined in the rules or left to the determination of the tech panel.

Positive and negative GOEs for all elements. Judges award component score for Skating Skills. Specially trained artistic professionals award scores for Composition and Presentation – maybe Interpretation will also be separated out as an independent component again.



Entertainment program: 4:00 minutes ± 60 seconds (i.e., 3:00 to 5:00 all legal). Music required. Props and theatrical costumes permitted.

Skaters earn points for the first 3 jumps, first spin, and first sequence they perform (choreo or leveled?). Otherwise, they can do whatever they want between and after the point-earning elements, including as many additional jumps, spins, or steps/sequences as they like. Or unlisted skills. Or they can just flirt with the audience. It’s all good.

Tech panel and judges award scores for the point-earning elements and Skating Skills.

Audience members in the arena and at home use special devices to award points for Artistic/Entertainment Value, which could be broken down into multiple categories.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Personally, I would not mind having something like a well-balanced technical (long) program as the first phase of competition -- exact number of jump passes TBD, but plenty of opportunity to earn technical points through blade-to-ice technical skills as well -- and something like the artistic program I describe as the final phase. Especially if pleasing audiences is the goal.

Of course different audience members have different preferences. So maybe it would make more sense to have well-balanced technical program and artistic program as two equal phases with approximately equal numbers of points available for each. Would it be feasible to alternate which program is competed first or last at different competitions?
 

TallyT

Unblushingly Biased
Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Country
Australia
I'm not sure I can even choose just one....
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Well, there could be different formats for different phases of the same competition.
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
Thank you for these detailed descriptions.

I am torn between well balanced and artistic, but I want to choose artistic because I think it will get less love. :)
 

Marty McFlip

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 7, 2024
Country
France
Not only entertaining but Yuzuru with "Let's Go Crazy" in 2016/2017 is the perfect balances of an entertaining program and well-balanced program
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
I want more steps.
I want a technical program first, and then a free program. The latter wouldn't have as many jumping passes but more steps. More choreo.
The first would look like the current long program.

I don't want medals for each segment. Still looking for the ultimate well-rounded skater over the course of both programs.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
For me, I pretty much go in the reverse order of the list on the OP.

Entertainment programs like Kristi Yamaguchi as a pro (Doop Doop -- the audience is smiling before she takes her first stroke). Naomi Nari Nam Little Bittie Pretty One exhibition.

Artistic -- but not too heavy on the emoting. Make me fell like God's in his heaven and all's right with the world. Davis and White, the second half (Polka) of Giselle. Music like It's a Wonderful World. I hope Chock and Bates work up a routine to the Hawaaiin version of Somewhere over the Rainbow as played at their recent wedding, q.v.

Moderate jumps well-balnced program. Michelle Kwan's best-constructed and most freely performed program of her career (posted on the other thread :laugh: )

Jumps? I have nothing against them. Thrill of victory, agony of defeat, no guts no glory, higher, faster, stronger. But I would rather watch this type of program later, after i already know that he didn't fall and that he won the competition. Too much stress to watch live.
 
Last edited:

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Entertainment programs like Kristi Yamaguchi as a pro (Doop Doop -- the audience is smiling before she takes her first stroke).
That was actually designed according to standard short program rules at the time.
Looks like Ultimate 4 competition might have been the only pro-am competition she competed in that consisted of a standard SP followed by an artistic program. (And she missed the jump combination there.)

She also performed it in shows or fully pro competitions sometimes with slightly less jump content.

Which shows that it is/was possible to be entertaining within ISU short program rules, perhaps more easily than within the longer "well-balanced free skate" format for the reasons you discuss elsewhere.
 
Last edited:

TallyT

Unblushingly Biased
Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Country
Australia
I just want the best of the best to be great at it all. Is that too much to ask?
 
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