2014 NHK Trophy Ladies Free Skate 11/29

[Interspectator]

I'm a bit disappointed with the ladies after doing so well in the SP it seemed like they were nervous about doing 2 clean programs. This happens from time to time.
I'm hoping for a better showing from the men. On the upside, Riona Kato and Polina Edmunds were wonderful. I was really happy to see their performances. Great potential in Kato-chan if she can get more 'artistry' in between her jumps.

 

[chloepoco]

Satoko held down on PCS yet again

 

[Blades of Passion]

Riona Kato should have won the LP, easily. What a blessing her performance was.

 

[Meoima]

Best ladies program this season, IMO - and she skates it so beautifully :yes:

She will be sent to 4CC and WC.

 

[wordsworthgirl]

Thanks for saving my post I went back to add..."every podium should be that nice" and since I'm on my phone and sleep deprived I hit 'delete' instead of 'save changes'

I am so sleep-deprived too, but still awake! over to the mens board.

Sam-Skwantch, I really thank you for increasing my appreciation and fondness for Yulia.

 

[jacob145]

It would be so if the total score is deprived of PCS. It seems that you take too much weight on the Technical points.

 

[sisinka]

Leonova's score is ridiculous. Overscored much?

This PCS score is absolutely rubbish. Satoko wuzrobbed! :disagree:

Congrats to all medalists. Although the performances were not clean, the ladies were fighting to do what was possible in the moment.

I am not surprised with the Component score for adult women in comparison with kids. This is senior = women Grand Prix competition, not junior Grand Prix. Satoko is lovely and very pleasant to watch and she can have great mature presentation in future but right now she is still kid who try to express maturity which she simply can’t have in her age (no matter how balet and lovely movements the kid uses).

Personally I think that Alena was stronger in presentation than Gracie today, but I fully agree that Alena, Gracie and Kanako got higher Component score than kid Satako.

So no home advantage for Japanese girls huh....

I don’t think that Japanese girls didn’t have home advantage, I think that Technical panel was very very very generous to them.

Kanako didn’t finish rotations in the air with second triple toe in her opening combo, it was less then quarter of rotation done in the ice, but it should be counted like underrotated jump. Her double Axel was so-so (strict panel would put it down). In triple flip Kanako didn’t finish rotations by full quarter of turn – very visible in slow motion. In combination of triple salchow and two double loops – all jumps were underrotated and loops by a quarter of turn. And another underrotation in double Axel.

So, Kanako underrotated triple toe, triple flip where she fell, every jumps in combination of three jumps and double Axel. Look at Protocols, the only jump which got call like underrotated jump was salchow.

Satoko underrotated her opening triple lutz by more then quarter. She underrotated triple flip. She underrotated triple loop by quarter of rotation. She underrotated her second triple lutz by quarter of rotation. Double Axel lacked something to be fully rotated but it could be counted with kind Technical panel, but triple toeloop was again with finished rotation on the ice. Triple salchow was almost fully rotated. Last Triple toeloop with finishing rotation on the ice – another question whether to count it or not.

So, Satoko underrotated both triple lutzes, triple flip, triple loop, triple loop in combination…and another three jumps were under question whether to count it or not (depending on how the Technical panel is kind or strict).

Alena lacked some degrees to finish second triple toeloop in her opening combo (her second toeloop was on the level of rotation of Satoko’s last toeloop – strict panel would put it down, kind panel would take it). Triple luzt was fully rotated, triple flip lacked almost a quarter. Second triple flip – watching from slow motion shown after the skate – lacked some degree (once again a question about strict or kind panel). Combination of three jumps - triple salchow and double toe fully rotated, double loop underrotated. Double Axel fully rotated.

So, Alena didn’t rotate double loop in combination of three jumps and first triple flip. Another two jumps were under question. In Protocols she did a call for double loop only.

If you compare it, you will find that Technical panel was that “kind“ Technical panel counting jumps which were “under question“. And then you will find that while Alena didn’t get one call for one jump which was underrotated, Satoko didn’t get another FOUR calls for underrotated jumps and Kanako didn’t get another FIVE calls for underrotated jumps.

If you want to say that somebody was overmarked – you should start with Japanese ladies at first. I can’t imagine any other event where all those underrotated jumps would be excused so much.

 

[sisinka]

More like Russian fed and US fed are fighting over on Japan ice and Japanese ladies got screwed up in their home.

Do you think that closing eyes in time when Japanese ladies don't fully rotate their jumps is not a generous gift at home ice?

 

[Meoima]

Do you think that closing eyes in time when Japanese ladies don't fully rotate their jumps is not a generous gift at home ice?

I was talking about PCS.

 

[Blades of Passion]

If you want to say that somebody was overmarked – you should start with Japanese ladies at first. I can’t imagine any other event where all those underrotated jumps would be excused so much.

Don't be ridiculous. They are pretty much always screwed over.

Miyahara's Flip and Loop definitely did not deserve a < call as you're trying to purport. The Lutzes and Toeloop in combination weren't called correctly, but that is actually pretty common. Tech callers still do not look properly at pre-rotation and the total rotation of jumps. Regardless, despite her underrotated jumps not being called correctly, she gets held down on PCS and the level/GOE of her footwork (whilst her competitors get overscored in things like spins). So in the end she's usually still often scored relatively lower than she should be.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Don't be ridiculous. They are pretty much always screwed over.

Miyahara's Flip and Loop definitely did not deserve a < call as you're trying to purport. The Lutzes and Toeloop in combination weren't called correctly, but that is actually pretty common. Tech callers still do not look properly at pre-rotation and the total rotation of jumps. Regardless, despite her underrotated jumps not being called correctly, she gets held down on PCS and the level/GOE of her footwork (whilst her competitors get overscored in things like spins). So in the end she's usually still often scored relatively lower than she should be.

:thumbsup:

I really don't understand how anyone can argue for the japanese ladies being overscored here especially compared to the others - like Gracie and Alena

 

[yuki]

Meh. I still remember the uproar and over Mao's score at CoC 2012, where she was a mess technically and got PCS similar to Gracie's here.
Apparently, it's ok if it's Gracie, even though her presentation is nowhere near Mao's.

ETA: I'm not trying to suggest that Gracie should get the same level of criticism that Mao got. It's never the skater's fault for how they are judged.

 

[treeloving]

:thumbsup:

I really don't understand how anyone can argue for the japanese ladies being overscored here especially compared to the others - like Gracie and Alena

:agree:

I start to wonder may be Satoko performance is different live and on screen. When after I watched her skate I lost my enjoyment for other ladies in this event, her choreography and interpretation is head above others.

 

[satine]

Meh. I still remember the uproar and over Mao's score at CoC 2012, where she was a mess technically and got PCS similar to Gracie's here.
Apparently, it's ok if it's Gracie, even though her presentation is nowhere near Mao's.

ETA: I'm not trying to suggest that Gracie should get the same level of criticism that Mao got. It's never the skater's fault for how they are judged.

 

[NYscorp6]

Congratulations Gracie on your first Grand Prix gold medal and trip to the final!

 

[MidnightSkater]

Congratulations Gracie on your first Grand Prix gold medal and trip to the final!

I loved her reaction when she won. She really could not believe it. It was a nice moment.

 

[sisinka]

Don't be ridiculous. They are pretty much always screwed over.

Miyahara's Flip and Loop definitely did not deserve a < call as you're trying to purport. The Lutzes and Toeloop in combination weren't called correctly, but that is actually pretty common. Tech callers still do not look properly at pre-rotation and the total rotation of jumps. Regardless, despite her underrotated jumps not being called correctly, she gets held down on PCS and the level/GOE of her footwork (whilst her competitors get overscored in things like spins). So in the end she's usually still often scored relatively lower than she should be.

It doesn’t have sense to talk about kid x mature skating in senior competitions question and yes, presentation is partly subjective thing….you are visibly persuaded that Satoko is the best. Why not.

Satoko got the Level 3 Step Sequence, only Gracie and Polina got Level 4 – there are requirements to get Level 4 – and those are not about lovely and elegant movements.
I don’t see any superior moves in comparison with other ladies to get higher GOE then they got, I liked Kanako’s execution more in that Step Sequence also.

But technical things are not so subjective. To see underrotation in jumps you must watch slow motion (I already wrote it).

Triple flip - a moment when Satoko‘s skates touches the ice is sooner than it should be to fully rotate jump -

(Second picture is a moment when Satoko touches the ice with skate, the third picture is the moment when she SHOULD touch the ice and make landing to finish full rotations.)

Triple loop – the same problem –

.

I don’t see a reason why would Satoko's spins deserved higher marks. In Flying Sit spin – the jump into that spin is not well done – she doesn’t have proper work of left leg there, the rest is nice. Layback spin is nice. Combination spin with changement of spinning direction is very difficult, but once again not proper work of jumping leg in middle of first part in that spin and a loss of balance in the last part of combination spin. Do you expect GOE +3 for that???

The highest GOE for spin at this competition was GOE +1.00, Satoko got +0.93 points for her layback spin, the same GOE was reached only by Gracie and Polina.

What are you talking about? Technical panel is here to re-watch all jumps and elements which are not clear as to good execution – they can review it and they are really doing it even at junior competitions. And from own words of some Technical specialists they are doing it very carefully – pointing every jump which is under the question as to rotations already during a program and then after the program is finished Technical panel makes review again and again to decide about full rotations or not.

 

[Icey]

Polina seems to have developed a significant ur and edge problem.

 

[zamboni step]

Just watched the ladies event, Satoko should have won the FS and overall in my opinion. Gracie being so much higher in PE, IN and CH is just offensive, the rictus grin will always win apparently... I thought Kato was excellent and receiving a lower score than Gracie and Leonova is just absurd.

 

[slider11]

The pink is a little much but I think they have to cover those long, gangly arms to make her look a little more graceful and less - well, gangly. If they are going for the Peter Pan theme I'm surprised they didn't pick a soft green for Peter or Tinkerbell. Good for Polina in redeeming herself in the LP. US Nationals will be interesting for that third spot!