Figure Skating governed like tennis: would that work?

[AnastasiaO]

I think dramatic fluff pieces are missing, they are so much fun !

 

[Manitou]

I'm going to repost another comment of mine elsewhere here... as this is a "how to fix figure skating thread"...



http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...r-like-Cohen&p=1058202&viewfull=1#post1058202

I would go even further: make the Grand Prix mandatory for Worlds qualifications. Just like in tennis: to take part in ATP/WTA finals you have to collect enough points through the entire season.

 

[msteach3]

In Eastern European (including Russian) culture it's easier for guys to participate in "feminine" activity, like ballet or figure skating, because there are specialized schools for such kids starting at 6 years and going all the way to adulthood. In those environments the boys are within their own subcultures and are not exposed so much to those outside stereotypes you were talking about.
In USA those schools are rare and expensive, or at least here where I live. Those boys still have to go to regular schools and survive the brutality of public teenage jungle. Yes, recently bullying has been reduced significantly and is now perceived as "uncool", but the stereotypes still exist. And it discourages the boys from going after "feminine" activities.

Hmm...throwing oneself into the air and rotating 4 times, often crashing onto a hard as a rock surface is hardly feminine, but I agree that stereotypes exist. As an American I can only comment on what is perceived in the US and it has nothing to do with my belief that "the universe revolves around the US" as another poster mentioned.

I am an elementary teacher and an avid skating fan. My little students may be future skaters or fans so every year I show videos of my favorite skaters to my class and educate them on the sport. They are awed by the athleticism..the jumps and crashes specifically. I have used scoring as a way to teach math and they love to watch the TES score box change while skaters are on the ice. Two things that tend to put them off are the costumes ("why does he dress like a girl?) and the music which most often is simply not hip. When I ask them if they are interested in trying the sport many of the girls say yes, but doubt their parents will take them to the rink. Most of the boys say no because they already do lots of sports (football, basketball, baseball, soccer) and skating is "not really cool," even though they think lots of what skaters do looks really cool. The cool factor has nothing to do with whether or not a skater is competing for a country or themselves, or if they will make the GPF or the Olympic team.

I believe to make skating "cool" again things have got to change and enter this century. Some of these changes might include the scoring, which overall is too complicated to follow, the music which needs more of an update than the ability to use lyrics (why so many warhorses this season?), the over-the-top costumes (yes, seen as "gay") and more time showing the technical side of the jumps, spins and footwork. Again, I can only speak to ideas for reviving the sport in the US. Hopefully something will be done before it's gone altogether.

 

[karne]

I think dramatic fluff pieces are missing, they are so much fun !

Ooooh, yes. I do love fluff pieces. But only as long as they don't take away from the time available to show actual skating.

I guess the NBC shoot themselves in the foot a bit. Anyone who watched both Vancouver and Sochi would have got very confused. In Vancouver, the NBC portrayed Plushenko as the Evil Communist Russian Villain out to steal gold from their Sweet Innocent All American Boy. In Sochi, Plushenko was portrayed as the returning King, the mighty hero coming back for one last time. Talk about a backflip.

I would go even further: make the Grand Prix mandatory for Worlds qualifications. Just like in tennis: to take part in ATP/WTA finals you have to collect enough points through the entire season.

What is your obsession with trying to kill the little countries?!

the music which needs more of an update than the ability to use lyrics (why so many warhorses this season?),

How do you plan to mandate that? You can't force skaters to use certain music. I've no idea why so many Phantoms this season, but I doubt forcing skaters to use modern music would help anything.

And besides, I'd rather us not go to modern music. Figure skating doesn't need 15 year olds out on the ice skating to songs about drugs, alcohol, rape, sex, and disrespect to women, which seems to be all modern music is about.

the over-the-top costumes (yes, seen as "gay")

Oh yes, let's just make the boys who might happen to like the costumes (sexuality being irrelevant) feel bad about themselves, just to add onto the bullying, by telling them that their costumes are too gay! Great idea! Let's not think about educating the idiots that think that way, let's not think about just saying "hey, wear what you want to wear"....

 

[LiamForeman]

Well, I remember a Slam, maybe Austrailian Open, when Serena had been off for like a year, she was dealing with the murder of her sister in Compton. She kinda sorta got herself into the game again, but was ranked maybe 5th or 6th as an American, against who I have no idea. They obviously didn't come to frutition. But you know what? Serena came through that tournament, and WON having never dropped a set. I think it's highly unfair if someone has world class skills and is left off because oh god we need to send the three worst American players over Serena because she's not top three, or so they think.

You HAVE to look at the body of work, which is why I was surprised that Ashley being named was such a controversy. Gracie held up, and Polina did too. But Mirai versus Ashley???? That's a no brainer and only Mirai has herself to blame. Mirai could have led US skating but she trailed off, no biggie, she lost her focus, but you can't expect just one lucky performance to trump the best US skater we've had for years. IMHO.

 

[karne]

I find it interesting that the people advocating for these changes are fans of big country skaters and automatically assume that all little-country skaters suck.

You'd be the sort to see Brendan Kerry land a 4S or a 4T-3T and immediately claim he must be an American who just went off to Australia because. Or see Brooklee and Kailani smashing out 3-3s and claim they're not really Australian and they're obviously from somewhere else and they have no right to be at worlds.

 

[ks777]

And I will remind the figure skating was huge in the U.S. no more than two decades ago.
As to the "cool" factor, maybe it's time to try to exploit it. Figure Skating can have it too. It just needs to have an open mind...

And like or not, the U.S. is dominating the popular culture around the world. And sports are part of popular culture. And no, we are not talking about Africa, South America, Australia or Middle East. We are talking about the Northern Hemisphere.
And no, I am not a born American.

Figure skating doesn't come across as a cool sport when male skaters are wearing clothes that are often only worn by women. here is an example: http://english.kyodonews.jp/photos/2014/12/329545.html
Please don't tell me that is something men wear.

 

[Mathman]

Please don't tell me that is something men wear.

Every sport has its silly-looking costumes. Would any man wear something like this?

Equestrian http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT6-ZWqWHW8V6LDlBujbH9RvQj4txPzf53ct9hR1qMQ1s-wo-4d

Golf http://heritage-classic-golf.com/images/orig/heritage-classic-golf.com/golf-fashion-stewart.jpg

U.S. football https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/...5XwAs5IR2QovQzsq9fIJOsaQ7oSOz6ofIgthHjshQXIhw

Basketball http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/NBA-Short-Shorts.jpg

Edited to add: Actually, that red coat is kind of cool. I think I might wear that, if i could find the boots.

 

[Manitou]

Figure skating doesn't come across as a cool sport when male skaters are wearing clothes that are often only worn by women. here is an example: http://english.kyodonews.jp/photos/2014/12/329545.html
Please don't tell me that is something men wear.

Normally I would agree, but I guess it's a convention, just like gstrings in sumo, or speedos in swimming.
If I were a figure skating dictator with unlimited power, I would probably put a restriction on overly flamboyant costumes by both genders, imposed some standards maybe. I remember when in the 70s men had to wear tuxedo-like uniforms, and that would be fine with me. With some extra creativity, but still strictly defined. I would allow some bare skin for women too, I hate those skin color stockings.

 

[Mathman]

It's too cold not to wear stockings.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Some winter warriors would disagree!!

http://www.firsttracksonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/4536269264_a5bb6ef678_o1.jpg

Mind over matter. "I AM in Hawaii" :yes:

 

[el henry]

I find it interesting that the people advocating for these changes are fans of big country skaters and automatically assume that all little-country skaters suck.

You'd be the sort to see Brendan Kerry land a 4S or a 4T-3T and immediately claim he must be an American who just went off to Australia because. Or see Brooklee and Kailani smashing out 3-3s and claim they're not really Australian and they're obviously from somewhere else and they have no right to be at worlds.

But not all of us "big country" fans .... I would find it far more interesting to see a comp with Brendan than with five Japanese men, or a comp with Brooklee than with five Russian women. And I don't find it unfair to the "fourth best" in the big country at all. That's life in the big skating rink...

Normally I would agree, but I guess it's a convention, just like gstrings in sumo, or speedos is swimming.
If I were a figure skating dictator with unlimited power, I would probably put a restriction on overly flamboyant costumes by both genders, imposed some standards maybe. I remember when in the 70s men had to wear tuxedo-like uniforms, and that would be fine with me. With some extra creativity, but still strictly defined. I would allow some bare skin for women too, I hate those skin color stockings.

I watched the fake tuxedo suits in the 70s too, and I do like the variety now better. But I do find the the "too sexy for my shirt" look, whether for males or females, off-putting.

 

[Meoima]

I am devastated about the Russian ladies because all of them are too good and only 3 will be sent to Euro and WC. I would love to see more of them.

 

[Manitou]

It's too cold not to wear stockings.

But it should be an option, not requirement.

 

[LiamForeman]

I am devastated about the Russian ladies because all of them are too good and only 3 will be sent to Euro and WC. I would love to see more of them.

Pogo needs a Frank Carrol'ish skating makeover. She's stunning facially, yet she has the typical Russian tackiness. Plus she has skills. Her now coach is holding her back IMO. Pogo could be Russian No.1 since she's past puberty and she's the deal. She just needs refinement. It seems she's going to get the short shrift in the Russian Federation.

 

[Meoima]

Pogo needs a Frank Carrol'ish skating makeover. She's stunning facially, yet she has the typical Russian tackiness. Plus she has skills. Her now coach is holding her back IMO. Pogo could be Russian No.1 since she's past puberty and she's the deal. She just needs refinement. It seems she's going to get the short shrift in the Russian Federation.

hwell: She couldn't move to Ukraine given the political weather there, not to mention that fed is so weak. She couldn't move to US either and in Russia she's just their 4th or 5th.

 

[Mathman]

But it should be an option, not requirement.

As far as I know, Surya Bonaly was the only top skater who skated bare-legged. She couldn't find tights that matched her skin tone.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

As far as I know, Surya Bonaly was the only top skater who skated bare-legged. She couldn't find tights that matched her skin tone.

Funny you should mention this, because a thing I have noticed over the past few years is that for most skaters, the skin-coloured portions of costumes hardly ever match the actual skin colour. :disapp:

BUT, for Vanessa James and Mae-Berenice Meite, the match is nearly always perfect.

So, the current dress makers must be putting in more of an effort in getting it right for coloured skaters than they were back in Surya's day! :agree:

CaroLiza_fan

 

[gkelly]

But it should be an option, not requirement.

Yes, it should. And there is no rule that requires tights.

Funny you should mention this, because a thing I have noticed over the past few years is that for most skaters, the skin-coloured portions of costumes hardly ever match the actual skin colour. :disapp:

BUT, for Vanessa James and Mae-Berenice Meite, the match is nearly always perfect.

So, the current dress makers must be putting in more of an effort in getting it right for coloured skaters than they were back in Surya's day!

I think that is true. I was watching a club competition a couple years ago with a young African-American woman who mentioned that she had had trouble finding tights to match her skin color when she was competing only a few years earlier and was impressed by the good match that the couple of black skaters in that event had achieved.


As for the larger question of this thread, I'll put together some thoughts to share later when I have more time.

What is the primary question/goal?

How to make skating as a spectator sport more popular and lucrative for promoters in the US specifically, or in as many countries as possible worldwide?

How to make/keep skating popular as a participant sport, in the US specifically or in as many countries as possible?

How to get the strongest possible fields at the most important events, for the sake of both fans and the strong skaters from strong countries themselves?

Each of these goals might require different approaches to maximize effectiveness, and some strategies that would work for one goal would work against another. So it's important to decide what we're trying to accomplish and what we're willing to give up.

I can think of several other outcomes that might need to be considered as well.

And of course practical questions about funding, or how to get from the current situation to a better one, should also be taken into account if we seriously believe that there's a necessity for such changes.

Although if we just want to fantasize "Wouldn't it be great if..." just for fun, that's cool too.

 

[R.D.]

And besides, I'd rather us not go to modern music. Figure skating doesn't need 15 year olds out on the ice skating to songs about drugs, alcohol, rape, sex, and disrespect to women, which seems to be all modern music is about.

Oh good god. Seriously??? :hopelessness:

You see, it's snobby attitudes like this (sorry) held by the TPTB and prominent members of the skating community that will keep skating forever in the dark ages. Very closed-minded and unwilling to try something new all in fear of being "marked down" or "blacklisted" or whatever. come on man, GMAB