The latest on Gracie Gold | Page 61 | Golden Skate

The latest on Gracie Gold

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noskates

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Jun 11, 2012
Gracie has had quite a few endorsements and I seriously doubt she needs her parent's money. Not sure why that even came into the discussion.

I think we're all in a wait and see mode. It was interesting during the broadcast yesterday that Scott Hamilton made a comment about "coaches lining up outside the door!" I hope he's right. I hope she gets to pick and choose someone she is compatible with and that it will open up a whole new world for her.

Again, no one in this board community knows Gracie, knows where her head is, knows what her relationship with Frank was, knows Frank, and everyone is working off their own observations and insight - with flawed information.
 

TheGrandSophy

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Whilst sympathy is of course necessary if Gold has been suffering badly, as seems the case, I would say that a colloquial use of the word 'depressed' is wholly possible and we cannot just assume that she is clinically depressed or has any mental disorder. That is somewhat presumptuous.

On 'jacketgate', I do think a balance is needed between saying she is 21 and will make mistakes and making excuses. Yes, she is young and we have all made regretful choices that we look back on. However, the way we actually learned is from, no, not harsh condemnation maybe, but certainly a firm check of "That was completely unacceptable and you need to grow up in your behavioural choices". If we don't get that, we often never learn. So, I hope someone gives her that for her sake.

TBH, I've never warmed to Frank from what I've seen of him, however accomplished a coach he may be, but I would be hesitate to condemn him. We don't know all the facts. A assumption that he is altogether the 'villain' and Gold 'the maligned victim' is a little trite. It is probable that both parties have been at fault and both have behaved badly at times.
 

Sasha'sSpins

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Additionally, while I'm quite sure the Golds wouldn't let Gracie starve, it's possible that they have cut her off to some degree financially or come to some agreement with her- we will cover $x or x% of your training costs, now that you're an adult. If you want to keep training you need to figure out how to fund the other $x or x% on your own. It's even possible that they are no longer helping her with training costs. I don't know that I think this is particularly likely, but I also KNOW you can't assume about a young adults financial situation based on their parents. For example I have a friend whose father owns the patent on a very lucrative drug and is also a heart surgeon. He is literally a multi mulit mulit millionaire. They cut her off entirely at 19, wouldn't even pay for her health insurance and she had none for almost 5 years due to this. And she hadn't even really done anything 'wrong'- she was a bit financially irresponsible so they were trying to teach her a lesson I think but it's not like she was a murderer or spending money on drugs and alcohol or even in a profession they disapproved of. You really never know.

THIS totally. It reminds me of an interview I read years ago with the actor Kiefer Sutherland. His parents told him, when he left college. before graduating, that they'd give him exactly one year to pursue his acting endeavors. They'd pay for his apartment, etc. Fortunately for Sutherland he was able to find work and has been working ever since. Of course, his famous father's name likely opened doors but that was no guarantee of success. I also have read of other wealthy entertainers like Roger Daltrey of The Who who stated his children would not inherit his wealth. They have to make it on their own. Very wealthy parents sometimes do this. Halle Berry's mother was not wealthy but she too cut support for her daughter once she was of age. Berry said she once asked her mom for help with the rent but she refused. It may seem mean to some or tough love to others. Sink or swim.

ETA: I guess I'm a 'snowflake' because I could not bare to do that to a child of mine or a young relative. :biggrin: My sister on the other hand is very much no nonsense and so is her ex-husband. They feel they helped their children all the way through college and their first jobs. Now all are on their own and thank goodness all are thriving.
 
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karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
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Australia
I think it should also be pointed out that Gracie is not a "normal" 21 year old. None of the skaters at this level are "normal". They have all grown up in an environment that will have them mature for their age in some ways and possibly less mature in others.

That said, Carroll, at nearly 80, should absolutely be mature about the situation. I don't care what else is going on, his behaviour this past weekend has been disgusting. Combine this with his attitude at Worlds in Boston and I am firmly of the opinion that he's lost it.
 

Weathergal

Medalist
Joined
May 25, 2014
The problem for Gracie is that her seasons best scores currently have her in 27th. She isn't going to be able to improve on that now. And several women behind her may pass her score (eyeballing it at least 4 people are likely to pass her at Worlds and 4CCs; it is possible that far more than that will). She won't be guaranteed any spots based on this

She is 7th on the World Standings list. She will be lower after Worlds and 4CCs and Euros, but it is mathematically/logistically impossible for her to fall out of the top 24. So she will be guaranteed one spot based on this.

After giving the guaranteed spots (2 to each person in top 12 at Worlds, 1 to each person in top 24 World ranking, 1 to each person top 24 Seasons best) they go down the seasons best list to assign additional spots. Gracie's chances of getting a second spot are very good based on this, but will depend on how far down the ranking she ultimately ends up, and also on how many of the top 12 at worlds and the top 24 in SB and WR respectively do or do not overlap.

Right now, I'd place quite strong odds on her getting 2 spots, but I wouldn't bet the house on it.

Always appreciative when people break those down because sometimes I still have trouble keeping GP assignment rules straight. :think:

If it worked out where Gracie only got one GP assignment, would US be able to use a host pick at Skate America to give her another assignment? I'm thinking that would be especially helpful if, for example, Gracie got one GP and did well, US could give her SA since it will be toward the end of the GP series next season.
 

rae4

Spectator
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Nov 27, 2015
The more you give into anxiety the more it steals your life away.

I started having panic attacks during school my freshman and sophomore year in high school. My anxiety became so bad that I dropped out of school. Honestly, I stopped going to anyplace where there wasn't noise. I would get panic attacks in quiet places. Plus, because I was ashamed about dropping out, I avoided going to places on the weekends to avoid seeing people that I might know. I lived like this for 4 years. Then my aunt offered me a job in an small tax returns office. The office didn't get a lot of business and my aunt almost always had the TV when there weren't any customers. This was when my anxiety lessened, but it didn't go away. My main fear was still school, after all. My fear of quiet places was a manifestation of my fear of being inside a classroom. After a year, my family moved to another city. Without a job and with nothing to do I was back to where I was before I got a job. I decided to get my GED and I started attending college. I had to take several tests to start college in very quiet classrooms. It was horrible, but I didn't have any panic attacks. My first semester was the second summer session and both of my classes were online. The next semester I had 4 online classes and 1 class I had to go to school. This semester is my third semester, I have 3 online classes and 2 classes that I have to go to. Every Tues & Thurs from 9 am to 4 pm. Every time I have to go to class I get extremely nervous but I no longer get panic attacks during class. What helped was changing my way of thinking. Instead of disliking myself for being anxious and nervous, I had to accept that I was an anxious and nervous person. If I get a panic attack the best thing is to do is just let it happen. Trying to stop panic attacks makes it worse. If I get nervous, then it is just something that is going to happen. Accepting it rather than fighting my feelings made them less severe. However, it is easier said than done. Every Tues & Thurs is still a struggle, but it's getting better slowly.
 
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Jammers

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Looking at that video clip of Carolina Kostner's expression leaving Frank for her skate when she was with him, and how similar it is to Gracie's, gives me a whole different expression on Mirai's often-commented lack of expression while she skates...

A drama queen who doesn't actually express during performance....? Or a young girl who has had such a negative reaction to her emotional expressions that she finds a way to shut it down when she skates, and now can't find a way back.

Carolina was always a headcase until around 2011 when she learned how to compete. Frank had nothing to do with Carolina skating with the same kind of expression.
 

Sasha'sSpins

Medalist
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United-States
He is her coach. I believe he has some professional obligation to her. If I were someone's coach I would not do something I knew would make them look bad in front of reporters. It wouldn't have anything do do with feeling protective- I would literally consider this part of my job.

If he's so over her that he doesn't care how he makes her look to reporters, he should fire her, end of story.

Frank like any other coach is the employee in the coach/student relationship. He can't 'fire' Gracie since he does not employ her. Gracie (or her parents) employed him. What he has done is quit the job like any other employee might do.
 

brightphoton

Medalist
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Carolina was always a headcase until around 2011 when she learned how to compete. Frank had nothing to do with Carolina skating with the same kind of expression.

What about Bebe Liang? She was with Frank for what seemed like 50 years, with no real breakthrough. I've made posts about this before, but she almost always missed her flip. 90% of the time. But Frank never had her change where she'd do her flip or the entrance, or anything about it. Never. In any competition in all the years Bebe was with him.
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
I started having panic attacks during school my freshman and sophomore year in high school. My anxiety became so bad that I dropped out of school. Honestly, I stopped going to anyplace where there wasn't noise. I would get panic attacks in quiet places. Plus, because I was ashamed about dropping out, I avoided going to places on the weekends to avoid seeing people that I might know. I lived like this for 4 years. Then my aunt offered me a job in an small tax returns office. The office didn't get a lot of business and my aunt almost always had the TV when there weren't any customers. This was when my anxiety lessened, but it didn't go away. My main fear was still school, after all. My fear of quiet places was a manifestation of my fear of being inside a classroom. After a year, my family moved to another city. Without a job and with nothing to do I was back to where I was before I got a job. I decided to get my GED and I started attending college. I had to take several tests to start college in very quiet classrooms. It was horrible, but I didn't have any panic attacks. My first semester was the second summer session and both of my classes were online. The next semester I had 4 online classes and 1 class I had to go to school. This semester is my third semester, I have 3 online classes and 2 classes that I have to go to. Every Tues & Thurs from 9 am to 4 pm. Every time I have to go to class I get extremely nervous but I no longer get panic attacks during class. What helped was changing my way of thinking. Instead of disliking myself for being anxious and nervous, I had to accept that I was an anxious and nervous person. If I get a panic attack the best thing is to do is just let it happen. Trying to stop panic attacks makes it worse. If I get nervous, then it is just something that is going to happen. Accepting it rather than fighting my feelings made them less severe. However, it is easier said than done. Every Tues & Thurs is still a struggle, but it's getting better slowly.

I just wanted to let you know I admire you. Keep it up.
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Frank like any other coach is the employee in the coach/student relationship. He can't 'fire' Gracie since he does not employ her. Gracie (or her parents) employed him. What he has done is quit the job like any other employee might do.

In situations like this it's often called firing though. I was an attorney in my past life and we would fire clients all the time. Yeah, they were paying us, but that is still what we called it.
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Always appreciative when people break those down because sometimes I still have trouble keeping GP assignment rules straight. :think:

If it worked out where Gracie only got one GP assignment, would US be able to use a host pick at Skate America to give her another assignment? I'm thinking that would be especially helpful if, for example, Gracie got one GP and did well, US could give her SA since it will be toward the end of the GP series next season.

Yup, of course they could give her the host spot, and I imagine if it came down to that they would.
 

NAOTMAA

Medalist
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
That's where the live audience can help. Did you see 14-year-old Tessa Hong :love: in the Nationals free skate? On her first three jumps she was so overwhelmed that her legs literally forgot what they were supposed to do. She did three singles in a row before she got it under control. Even watching on TV I could feel the waves of sympathy and support from the audience. When she finally got it going, everyone was applauding and cheering. Applaud yourselves, audience. :yes:

The audience was great when Tessa skated. They were really trying to pick her up and push her though the rest of the program and as a result she succeeded in turning things around. I was shocked that Gracie didn't get the same. After the SP it was almost dead silence and the LP was too to an extent. The applause felt small and muted. Almost like they were in complete frozen confusion and shock at what they were witnessing and couldn't move to put their hands together. It was very uncharacteristic of the nationals audience, I've never seen it like that before.
 

Jammers

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Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Ironically Gracie is basically in the same position that Ashley was in after Nationals in 2011. She just came off her worst season and finish at Nationals 6th and admitted later on TSL that it was because she wasn't over not making the 2010 Olympic team. So she moved across the country and went to California where she found a new coach in John Nicks. Gracie needs to move out on her own now and take charge of her skating career and life like Ashley did who was younger then Gracie when she made the move. It's time for her grow up and leave the nest.
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
The audience was great when Tessa skated. They were really trying to pick her up and push her though the rest of the program and as a result she succeeded in turning things around. I was shocked that Gracie didn't get the same. After the SP it was almost dead silence and the LP was too to an extent. The applause felt small and muted. Almost like they were in complete frozen confusion and shock at what they were witnessing and couldn't move to put their hands together. It was very uncharacteristic of the nationals audience, I've never seen it like that before.

I wasn't there in person but I honestly think it was shock, you've nailed it. I don't believe the audience had anything 'against' Gracie or anything like that.
 

peg

Medalist
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
you can't really tell if a person is depressed or not....depressed people look normal too. You don't know unless you are living with them.

For a few days, they talk and sound normal, maybe even a bit happy. Then two weeks from now, they are crying in a room and talks of suicide. It is a very sad and real illness. The doctor can operate on your organs and fix you up, but the brain is much harder to control.

It's not even necessarily a matter of days at a time. A lot of people with depression - especially those who tend to be high functioning - put on a brave or even happy face when they're out in public, at work or school, etc but then completely fall apart behind closed doors. When I was 17, I was hospitalized for depression, and when the teachers at my school were told, some of them didn't believe it - because I always had a smile on my face. I was smiling on the outside, but on the inside I was preoccupied with figuring out he best way to kill myself. You really often can't tell - even my family had no clue.
 
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TGee

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 17, 2016
Carolina was always a headcase until around 2011 when she learned how to compete. Frank had nothing to do with Carolina skating with the same kind of expression.

Uhm, but looking at her bio and coaching history, I note that she didn't "learn to compete" or whatever it was that turned her around until after she left Frank Carroll [to whom she had gone when she was not making progress in learning triples].

Reportedly, in 2011 Carolina commented on her 2009-2010 season, her bad experience at the Olympics led her to question whether she should continue skating, but that she came to realize that she loved skating....

Sounds familiar....

Lastly, I feel that I have to keep saying it because words do in fact do harm.....Calling any athlete, including those at the elite level, a "head case" is in my view sigmatizing and disrespectful....So, I'm naming it.

Skaters, most of whom compete in an individual performance sport, are pushed to develop an incredible amount of independent training skills as their coaches work with them only a small portion of the day. And as teenagers, they need to live with and learn to manage around the incredible highs and lows of not only achievement but adrenaline that goes with competition...

Helping their skaters through this process of psychological growth and development should be absolutely part of the job of an elite coach. Adapting and adjusting technique to a skater's needs and potential, whether physical or psychological should also be part of the job.

Fortunately, there seem to be other coaches out there who have a more complete kit of skills, or who work in teams that round them out....wish Gracie all the best in finding a truly good fit....
 
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