2018 Olympic Figure Skating Team Event Day 2

[readernick]

I don't see that happening because there are categories that are subjective. The problem with PCS is it's a combination of objective and subjective. I think that's why PCS comes across as arbitrary.

I think the real issues is that judges have too much to do in a short amount of time. They are judging both technical and artistic elements. If there were a separate panel for judging PCS, I think there would be more variation between the marks and the PCS marks would rely much less on reputation and more on actual skills.

 

[chopinskate]

...OK I know I said that I was not trying to make sense of scores anymore, and Carolina should be behind Med due to her 3T<, but why are her GOE on her spins lower than Med's? They looked far superior to me.

Her jumps have barely any flow out, too.

Shouldn't be more than a couple points lead, overall, over Kostner, adjusting her PCS and GOE.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1718/owg2018/OWG2018_TeamLadies_SP_F_Scores.pdf

Should be more like Evgenia - 71 Kostner - 69 and blah at the rest.

 

[Warwick360]

Tell them how difficult is to jump only in the last 1 minutes and 25 seconds of your program, because that's one of the main reason why Evgenia got these scores.

This and also tell them that Evgenia won mostly everything since 2015.

On top of that there is also the fact that the other 3 major contenders made mistakes, while Evgenia skated a clean program. No underrotations, step-out,...

Does not explain the PCS and the high GOEs. Just because it's been happening all season, doesn't make it less unfair.

And hardly everything was perfect. Her spin was swaying off by more than a feet or two. and yet she got 2s and 3s from judges.

No one is complaining about her placement. Of course she was the best today. But the scoring was atrocious as usual.

 

[largeman]

My eyes rolling out of my head that Kostner was scored so high for a SP that included such a scratchy hideous combo. Otherwise, she looked great and nice performance. But that score mocks fair play.

Indeed. And where did your eyes roll to when an SP where this happened scored 78.57, more than three points higher than Kostner's score today?

 

[kresslia]

Wow, only one sub for Canada. They are serious and I love it.

If Chan can't beat Rizzo, well.. idk what to say. He should be 4th at minimum. All of these skaters are people Chan shouldn't have issues with (sans Kolyada), but we all know his condition this season. If he can be even semi-clean, he will be 2nd at worst. But... that's a big ask of him at this point.

 

[bobbob]

My eyes rolling out of my head that Kostner was scored so high for a SP that included such a scratchy hideous combo. Otherwise, she looked great and nice performance. But that score mocks fair play.

Her combo was way better than Katelyn's...Caro's was a 3F+3T that many believed was not ur, I was 50/50... otoh, Katelyn should not have gotten any credit for the second jump...her foot CLEARLY touched the ice after the first. She should have gotten 3F+ combo and either have the 3T< or 3Lz count as her solo jump. Based on the combo alone Kostner should have been 4 points ahead of Katelyn....and for PCS etc. she should have gained another 3 points.

 

[readernick]

Well in fairness i would have called her combo ur (both the lutz and the toe were ur), and then the solo jump had no required steps, so that should have been a mandatory -3 from all the judges according to the rules and instead they gave her positive GOE for that.

So yes there was still a little of home advantage for her.

Components she was good, agreed that she should have been above Tennell on that, but she was skating too much on two feet.

This. Her TES was very very generous and her SS and transistions marks really don't place her above Bradie. I can see her being higher in the other categories because while no Miyahara or Kostner she is a slight be more exciting than Bradie. But, if scored completely fairly in TES and PCS she would like be a bit lower than she is now because the TES would drop considerably.

 

[Warwick360]

Well in fairness i would have called her combo ur (both the lutz and the toe were ur), and then the solo jump had no required steps, so that should have been a mandatory -3 from all the judges according to the rules and instead they gave her positive GOE for that.

So yes there was still a little of home advantage for her.

Components she was good, agreed that she should have been above Tennell on that, but she was skating too much on two feet.

LOL. Please STAHP.

 

[Skater Boy]

I had to get caught up and watch all the skating after church tonight so it took a while.

1. Johnny and Tara - so unprofessional at times.
2. Dance tough TES judges. Like the shibsibs but they are no where close to Virtue and Moir. B/S have huge potential if they could skate their programs clean without error - they were a bit rough. Still think V and M will lose toPC looking at these scores. Canada must win the short by a few p oints to have any chance of winning the OGM.
3. I think Canada will go with Virtue and Moir in the dance freedance. SAd because Weapo are such nice people and constantly get the short end of the stick when it comes to medals.
4. C/L are getting rather tired looking.
5. I would be very surprised if Italy wins bronze. The US will easily win the men's and dance over Italy
6. Bradie Tennel had an impressive debut. But she gets the job done but it isn't artistic or special. IN the old 6.0 system and much like know just because she was clean and did the big tricks she skates rather "small" or without interest right now. She deservedly is behind Osmond who obviously wasnervous but she did fight.
7. EVgenia came through and was solid asexpected.
8. Nice effort by Duhamel andRadford - hat ethehate for this team
9.if Patrick beats Kolyada it is all over but the crying. Canada will be about twopoints ahead in the dance in the free dancesoif they placefourth in one of the lasttowevents(men and ladies) it is game over for Russia (OAR)

 

[Tolstoj]

...OK I know I said that I was not trying to make sense of scores anymore, and Carolina should be behind Med due to her 3T<, but why are her GOE on her spins lower than Med's? They looked far superior to me.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1718/owg2018/OWG2018_TeamLadies_SP_F_Scores.pdf

Caro's spins were slower and she is not as flexible (she doesn't have the I-spin or the biellmann which aren't required for the level 4 but still, those should be rewarded more). Honestly i think Caro's GOEs on the spins are even too high, other skaters also had better spins.

 

[readernick]

I respectfully disagree with anyone who thinks Carolina's sp was overscored. Her combo got negative GOE and was called under-rotated.(so fair) Her other elements were all lovely. She never hits an ugly position and she in top 2 in the ladies event (with miyahara) for intrepretation of music and quality of choreography. And the quality of her SS are also so far above everyone else. Katelyn has great speed and Miyahara has great edges but Carolina has both speed and edges. She is really a skater who deserves the PCS mark. Unlike certain other skaters who just get it because of reputation.

 

[Warwick360]

Caro's spins were slower and she is not as flexible (she doesn't have the I-spin or the biellmann which aren't required for the level 4 but still, those should be rewarded more). Honestly i think Caro's GOEs on the spins are even too high, other skaters also had better spins.

By that definition, all skaters that have I-spin and Biellmann should be awarded more? Dabin should be awarded more than Caro? If skating starts to hinge entirely on flexibility, then we should probably stop calling the sport figure skating. Call it 'contortionists on ice' instead.

 

[chopinskate]

Caro's spins were slower and she is not as flexible (she doesn't have the I-spin or the biellmann which aren't required for the level 4 but still, those should be rewarded more). Honestly i think Caro's GOEs on the spins are even too high, other skaters also had better spins.

Med's spins traveled a lot, she shouldn't have those high GOEs. I'd assign them around the same GOEs, or even in favour of Carolina (I don't remember those bullet points). I actually prefer Carolina's layback.

 

[Tolstoj]

LOL. Please STAHP.

I've no problems with that, in figure skating home skaters always receive a bonus when they skate clean. (it's not okay but all countries do that)

The scoring so far seems fair.

 

[readernick]

By that definition, all skaters that have I-spin and Biellmann should be awarded more? Dabin should be awarded more than Caro? If skating starts to hinge entirely on flexibility, then we should probably stop calling the sport figure skating. Call it 'contortionists on ice' instead.

Definitely, when you watch Carolina spin (if its a good day) the marks she leaves on the ice are so precise they look like figures. (Patrick Chan is like this too). Additionally, in an attempt to do spins that require flexibility many skaters hit ugly positions. Carolina's body position is truly perfect. (Miyahara is like this too)

 

[breadstal]

Wow, just wow, Dabin and Satoko were SO robbed. I love Kaetlyn but the judging was UNFAIR. Glad to see that it was overall good event, ice ended up not being that awful at the end lol Happy for Evgenia, she nailed it, rooting for her in the competition.

 

[Tolstoj]

By that definition, all skaters that have I-spin and Biellmann should be awarded more? Dabin should be awarded more than Caro? If skating starts to hinge entirely on flexibility, then we should probably stop calling the sport figure skating. Call it 'contortionists on ice' instead.

You can also get the +3 with other nice variations timed with the music or even better, more speed, it's not just the flexibility.

But those extra efforts for a faster spin or a more flexible position, should be rewarded more, and judges acknowledge that most of the time. Most of the variations on Evgenia's spins are more difficult.

On top of that honestly some of Caro's spins are just not that great.

PS: yes to me, Dabin has a better layback spin than Carolina Kostner. (except Caro has a better transition with the spread eagle and the illusion, although on the illusion i'd still argue that the leg wasn't high enough)

 

[Eclair]

I've no problems with that, in figure skating home skaters always receive a bonus when they skate clean. (it's not okay but all countries do that)

The scoring so far seems fair.

lol, in what world was the scoring fair? Satoko's PCS - she has a program. she has choreography. not that the judged cared... Kaetlyn's combo - she put the foot down and the combo doesn't get invalidated? Evgenia's PCS and GOE? - how did that spin even get positive GOE, it traveled a visibly?

 

[Fruitpie]

Katelyn's combo was 3F+1t<< (+ illegal 3T<). Why I see what I see in the protocol? I just don't understand. Did they change the rules?

 

[Warwick360]

You can also get the +3 with other nice variations timed with the music or even better, more speed, it's not just the flexibility.

But those extra efforts for a faster speed or a more flexible position, should be rewarded more, and judges acknowledge that most of the time.

On top of that honestly some of Caro's spins are just not that great.

PS: yes to me, Dabin has a better layback spin than Carolina Kostner. (except Caro has a better transition with the spread eagle and the illusion, although on the illusion i'd still argue that the leg wasn't high enough)

My point being. Flexibility should not be a key into being considered a better spin alone. Sure, it may allow hitting the levels more easily if there is flexibility. But GOEs should be left far away from that matter. Especially considering how skaters have been constantly complaining about problems around hip/back area.

But even discounting injury concerns, perhaps I should have used Berenice instead of Dabin. Just because Berenice goes for those aforementioned I spins and Biellmann, she should get higher scores than Caro? God, no. Sure Evgenia's positions are nice, but when their centring are as bad as it was on some of the spins today, the GOEs are simply indefensible. Even her jumps aren't that technically great to be fair (discounting the arm on the head gimmick).