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Cohen's beauty and polish not appreciated?
- Thread starter temperboy27
- Start date
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- Jul 11, 2003
SKATERS WHO UPSET THE APPLE CART
Sarah Hughes (2002 Olys); Shen/Zhao (2003 Worlds); Bourne/Krantz (2003 Worlds; Shizuka Arakawa (2004 Worlds and 2006 Olys); Stephane Lambiel (2005 and 2006 Worlds); Kimmie Meisner (2006 Worlds)
Also Emannuel Sandhu (2004 GPF); Mao Asada (2005 GP Final); Katy Taylor (2005 4CC)
Can you think of any other unexpected golds?
I do. I want them to play the METS, my team.
Joe
2004 Worlds, definitely, but I don't know if I would put 2006 Olympics in there. I mean, she was definitely one of the favorites going into the competition. Granted she wasn't hyped as much as Slutskaya or Cohen were, but she still had the technical arsenal and a Worlds win under her belt. A "dark horse", maybe but definitely not an underdog. After the short program the three of them (SA, SC and IS) were in a virtual tie and it came down to who was left standing. Not like Sarah who came from practically nowhere to win the whole thing. JMO
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- Jul 26, 2003
I think the only thing unexpected about this win was that Shen survived an injury, but they were favored as the reigning World Champions and Olympic bronze medallists. T/M were not quite slow, but they didn't have the speed they showed by 2004, and "Cotton Club" was a bit perfunctory in presentation, and they improved tremendously when they adopted lyrical long programs, beginning with "Fire on Ice" in 2004.
I think of myself as a compassionate person and I can't understand what was so terrible about RD's post. (RD- if I am misunderstanding you, please correct me and accept my apologies.)
On a personal level, of course, you feel for the athletes who don't achieve their dream, but this is sport. In sport, the person who rises to the moment or, as is the case with Torino, misses it by the least amount wins. Everyone knows the rules going into it and everyone has their chance to shine. If they don't do well, that is sad, but at least they had their chance. What they did with their chance was up to them. The people I really feel for are the ones who miss out on their chance, like Tai and Randy or Caryn Kadavy.
On a personal level, of course, you feel for the athletes who don't achieve their dream, but this is sport. In sport, the person who rises to the moment or, as is the case with Torino, misses it by the least amount wins. Everyone knows the rules going into it and everyone has their chance to shine. If they don't do well, that is sad, but at least they had their chance. What they did with their chance was up to them. The people I really feel for are the ones who miss out on their chance, like Tai and Randy or Caryn Kadavy.
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- Feb 5, 2004
I can think of more than a few heartbreaking tennis matches that i've watched when a player blew it and i felt sympathy....if its emotion you lack when when watching sports...then i guess no-one can help you with that. For me the emotion is what makes me watch....if i didn't feel anything about the sport i personally wouldn't bother watching it. And since i tend not to have national biases i don't get fired up by that so emotion it is...i guess everybody's different.
Ant
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I think the main thrust of RD's posts is that of negativity. IMO, bottom line is the constant negativity about Ladies and indeed the entire Sport which in itself is no crime, but it begs the question: what's behind the negativity of a sport not liked, only one division of that sport, and its leading ladies? (for some readers including figure skaters lovers of all divisions, it becomes somewhat boring.)
Joe
Joe
Where's the negativity in saying that skater X is responsible for her performance or lack of it? What's so cold about knowing that there can be one winner and that should only be the person who gives the best performance? Those are just facts of life. You don't have to sit around wuzrobbing or bleeding from the heart to enjoy the sport. I am a passionate fan of figure skating and have been for many years and I enjoy RD's posts. He is an intelligent observer and every point of view is a chance to learn.
Some people like all of the disciplines and some don't. Plenty of people only enjoy certain aspects of the sport. Some people only like ONE skater. They should all be welcome. Figure skating is in no position to get snobby about it's fandom. All intelligent interest should be made welcome. Intelligent interest can be positive or negative. As long as it isn't abusive, it can still be perfectly valid and provide for interesting discussion..
RD has been a great contributor to many of the more thought provoking threads on this board. I appreciate the different point of view. It seems to me that some people jump on every word RD says that might be considered negative towards a skater and then let loose a deluge of negativity towards RD. He gets personally attacked more than any poster that I've seen outside of bash boards. Is that so much better than saying "Sasha had her chance and messed it up"? Why RD is still here, I don't know. I just hope he stays. Whether you agree or disagree, he's not the least bit boring.
Some people like all of the disciplines and some don't. Plenty of people only enjoy certain aspects of the sport. Some people only like ONE skater. They should all be welcome. Figure skating is in no position to get snobby about it's fandom. All intelligent interest should be made welcome. Intelligent interest can be positive or negative. As long as it isn't abusive, it can still be perfectly valid and provide for interesting discussion..
RD has been a great contributor to many of the more thought provoking threads on this board. I appreciate the different point of view. It seems to me that some people jump on every word RD says that might be considered negative towards a skater and then let loose a deluge of negativity towards RD. He gets personally attacked more than any poster that I've seen outside of bash boards. Is that so much better than saying "Sasha had her chance and messed it up"? Why RD is still here, I don't know. I just hope he stays. Whether you agree or disagree, he's not the least bit boring.
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- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
That's your opion and I will die for you to have it. But it is not mine.
BTW, can you site any posititive threads of Sasha and Michel? Even the diehards give their unfavorite the requisite praise when it is obvious.
Joe
BTW, can you site any posititive threads of Sasha and Michel? Even the diehards give their unfavorite the requisite praise when it is obvious.
Joe
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I didn't know we had to "keep score". As long as the remarks aren't personally abusive towards the skaters, I don't see the problem. Nobody is forced to agree and disagreeing respectfully can be enjoyable. There are plenty of posters who never say anything even the slightest bit negative, even when it's obvious. It all balances out.
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- Mar 14, 2006
I respectfully disagree with the idea that total negativity is as enjoyable as total positivity. Ultimately that would mean heaven and hell, or love and hate, are equally valuable. Even the harshest professional critics - take John Simon for a famous example of Red-Dogian "honesty" - have their enthusiasms.
Negativity is just unpleasant. That's why mothers teach their kids, If you can't find anything positive to say, be quiet! At least mine sure did. And how often - after having forgotten it and been too negative - I realize the wisdom of that advice.
As for the "attacks" on RD, first of all, he can stop them any time he wants simply by refraining from attacking skaters. That's called learning from the feedback you get in life.
Second, yes, he has the right to say what he wants, within the famous Goldenskate bounds of courtesy.
Third, I've come to think all this talk about RD is exactly what he wants. For whatever reason, he wants or needs to get attention by being purposely provocative. As others have said, it's pretty boring.
But I wish RD well. And he took a really beautiful photograph of Venice (where I am going in October)!
ETA: I guess Kwanford Wife finds this post negative. Well, yes - endless attacks and the idea of unmitigated negativity being a good thing do make me mad. I was really replying to SusanBeth and didn't really intend to address RD again. But I did, so...
Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
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- Joined
- Dec 29, 2004
I respectfully disagree with the idea that total negativity is as enjoyable as total positivity. Ultimately that would mean heaven and hell, or love and hate, are equally valuable. Even the harshest professional critics - take John Simon for a famous example of Red-Dogian "honesty" - have their enthusiasms.
Negativity is just unpleasant.
As for the "attacks" on RD, first of all, he can stop them any time he wants simply by refraining from attacking skaters. That's called learning from the feedback you get in life.
Third, I've come to think all this talk about RD is exactly what he wants. For whatever reason, he wants or needs to get attention by being purposely provocative. As others have said, it's pretty boring.
But I wish RD well. And he took a really beautiful photograph of Venice (where I am going in October)!
The irony... :sheesh:
He ATTACKED skaters? I thought that he said that he didn't feel sorry for them and expressed his views on their performances. That's not attacking. Now, if he said that they were nasty little wenches or something like that, you might have a point. Otherwise, this just seems like attacking someone for thinking differently. A board where one has to think a certain way and post along a "party line" is a pretty crappy discussion board as far as I am concerned. This board is too good for that or at least I have always believed it was.
You should only say nice things or be quiet? I think that only works in kindergarten. Adults should be able to handle disagreements with more maturity. There is nothing wrong with a negative opinion expressed respectfully. The problem that I am seeing is that some people can't seem to respond respectfully. That's not RD's fault. I think he does an amazing job staying above the real nastiness here.
If you can't handle certain posters, there is an ignore feature on this board. There's no need to personally attack other posters for saying things that they have EVERY right to say.
ETA: I must add that I can't even begin to equate any of this with love, hate, heaven, or hell. That's way too extreme for me. So, I will respectfully disagree with you. This is, imo, making a mountain out of a molehill. No one should have to post in praise of anyone in order to keep from being personally attacked.
RD: I apologize for speaking about your situation without your knowlege or consent. My intentions were good. These are my views and I take full responsibility for them.
You should only say nice things or be quiet? I think that only works in kindergarten. Adults should be able to handle disagreements with more maturity. There is nothing wrong with a negative opinion expressed respectfully. The problem that I am seeing is that some people can't seem to respond respectfully. That's not RD's fault. I think he does an amazing job staying above the real nastiness here.
If you can't handle certain posters, there is an ignore feature on this board. There's no need to personally attack other posters for saying things that they have EVERY right to say.
ETA: I must add that I can't even begin to equate any of this with love, hate, heaven, or hell. That's way too extreme for me. So, I will respectfully disagree with you. This is, imo, making a mountain out of a molehill. No one should have to post in praise of anyone in order to keep from being personally attacked.
RD: I apologize for speaking about your situation without your knowlege or consent. My intentions were good. These are my views and I take full responsibility for them.
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Wow...and all this happened while I was asleep...
I really think out of respect for all the other posters on this forum, we should get back on the thread topic and if anyone wants to discuss my situation let's start a separate thread in the Cafe.
I also choose not to take sides in this debate. It's impossible to please every single person, and my aim here is NOT to please a certain group of posters or certain group of fans. My aim here is to simply offer my opinions on the part of figure skating I happen to have a lingering interest in (for the time being). If some people are annoyed by the things I post, I believe there's a feature on this forum where you can ignore said poster. If the rule here is to be interested in ALL aspects of figure skating or to know down pat what a triple lutz looks like, I will be the first one to leave this forum, since I in that situation I obviously don't belong here.
There have been times where I've gotten out of hand without being aware of it. Maybe one of those times is right now.
Over the years, you've heard me say I have no staked interest in any particular skater. That is true, but I do like TALKING about skating- at least the part I'm interested in- and I admit to having no real technical knowledge about skating to the point where I can't get into the in-depth discussions that I see often around here. I take it a couple of posters in particular (call me on this if I'm wrong) would like to see me participate in more of these discussions. But I simply lack the technical know-how to do so.
Yes, I have said electrically-charged comments about skaters, recently Cohen in particular. I know many Sashafans frequent this forum nowadays (believe it or not, this wasn't true even two years ago) and I remember other posters saying much worse things about her with no one even batting an eyelid. I happen to be frustrated with people referring to me as a fan of hers (and also am not a big fan of "wannabe actresses") so therefore my recent comments about her. If they are offensive to anyone I apologise for hurting them. But I always stand behind my comments and you know that.
But enough about me now. Some people think I might like the attention...and while that may have been true 4 years ago, I'm really tired of it to be honest. Why can't we just keep discussing the topic at hand (and all its tangents
) and if anyone has a problem with any comment I might make just send me a PM.
I really think out of respect for all the other posters on this forum, we should get back on the thread topic and if anyone wants to discuss my situation let's start a separate thread in the Cafe.
I also choose not to take sides in this debate. It's impossible to please every single person, and my aim here is NOT to please a certain group of posters or certain group of fans. My aim here is to simply offer my opinions on the part of figure skating I happen to have a lingering interest in (for the time being). If some people are annoyed by the things I post, I believe there's a feature on this forum where you can ignore said poster. If the rule here is to be interested in ALL aspects of figure skating or to know down pat what a triple lutz looks like, I will be the first one to leave this forum, since I in that situation I obviously don't belong here.
There have been times where I've gotten out of hand without being aware of it. Maybe one of those times is right now.
Over the years, you've heard me say I have no staked interest in any particular skater. That is true, but I do like TALKING about skating- at least the part I'm interested in- and I admit to having no real technical knowledge about skating to the point where I can't get into the in-depth discussions that I see often around here. I take it a couple of posters in particular (call me on this if I'm wrong) would like to see me participate in more of these discussions. But I simply lack the technical know-how to do so.
Yes, I have said electrically-charged comments about skaters, recently Cohen in particular. I know many Sashafans frequent this forum nowadays (believe it or not, this wasn't true even two years ago) and I remember other posters saying much worse things about her with no one even batting an eyelid. I happen to be frustrated with people referring to me as a fan of hers (and also am not a big fan of "wannabe actresses") so therefore my recent comments about her. If they are offensive to anyone I apologise for hurting them. But I always stand behind my comments and you know that.
But enough about me now. Some people think I might like the attention...and while that may have been true 4 years ago, I'm really tired of it to be honest. Why can't we just keep discussing the topic at hand (and all its tangents
) and if anyone has a problem with any comment I might make just send me a PM.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
SusanBeth, Please see my ETA mea culpa above! I have voiced my views about RD's posting style on several occasions and it's time to let it go.
But please don't put words in my mouth. I did not ask for groupthink or total, unmitigated positivity on this board.
If I thought adults had no right to voice criticism of skaters, I would have been responding to every poster on the board including myself! Of course people can and do voice differences all the time and I have never questioned that.
I explicitly acknowledged RD's right to express his opinions.
I gave my opinion that negative comments should be at least occasionally balanced with positive ones.
You see the whole thing differently. Fine! Enjoy!
ETA: Written before RD's post above. RD: I do agree with those who praise your good-tempered response to criticism. Your bark is worse than your bite! Thanks for the acknowledgment of your "electrically charged comments about skaters, recently Cohen."
But please don't put words in my mouth. I did not ask for groupthink or total, unmitigated positivity on this board.
If I thought adults had no right to voice criticism of skaters, I would have been responding to every poster on the board including myself! Of course people can and do voice differences all the time and I have never questioned that.
I explicitly acknowledged RD's right to express his opinions.
I gave my opinion that negative comments should be at least occasionally balanced with positive ones.
You see the whole thing differently. Fine! Enjoy!
ETA: Written before RD's post above. RD: I do agree with those who praise your good-tempered response to criticism. Your bark is worse than your bite! Thanks for the acknowledgment of your "electrically charged comments about skaters, recently Cohen."
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- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
RD is fine. He's not going against the rules of the forum.
I think his lack of interest in the Sport is well known by now, and as I intimated before, he has never praised any skater. So I conclude that his interest in the Ladies Division is whimsicle. Nothing wrong with that either, other than creating boredom for some and irritations for others.
Most of his comments on a pre competition, i.e., hype and pressure are just generalities which apply to all sports and moreso to ALL competitors. Nothing special here. He will not mention whether the hype has influenced the score and he will not mention how well a competitor can handle the pressue which are the main points in those comments.
RD gets lots of attention here. You finish the rest of that.
Joe
I think his lack of interest in the Sport is well known by now, and as I intimated before, he has never praised any skater. So I conclude that his interest in the Ladies Division is whimsicle. Nothing wrong with that either, other than creating boredom for some and irritations for others.
Most of his comments on a pre competition, i.e., hype and pressure are just generalities which apply to all sports and moreso to ALL competitors. Nothing special here. He will not mention whether the hype has influenced the score and he will not mention how well a competitor can handle the pressue which are the main points in those comments.
RD gets lots of attention here. You finish the rest of that.
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
I for one watch FS and post here for fun...not a reason to live. To me the snarky comments are the best thing about FS message boards. I put it on the same level as Jay's monologue, Dave's top ten list, or a Saturday Night Live sketch. These skaters are celebritys and are open targets as far as I am concerned. Maybe if I actually skated or had a family member that did I would take it more seriously. As I have said before for those of us not into all of the technical stuff the fluff and and personal opinion is all we can comment on. Unless a poster is being blatantly offensive they have as much right to their opinions as the next poster. Again I will add that it always amazes me as to how posters are more worried about the feelings of rich celebrity skaters than their peers...the posters on this board. I am sick of the Big East football conference being called the Big Least but it is sport.....and therefore really not important when you look at the other thing going on in the world. If skaters are so sensitive that they can't take some fun being poked at them maybe they should just skate at their local rink during public sessions so no one wil notice how many times they fall.
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