Han Yan

[sublimeskating]

just to add more:

chinese fed also changed the long time experienced med team/sports doctor last minute at winter olys and swapped in some random (much less experienced) med team

zhao hongbo/shen xue pretty much controls the entire chinese figure skating fed and chinese figure skating team - some of the "changes" were more like forcing out coaches/staff who weren't part of their clique, all basically amounting to power plays and stuff

head coach wanted to force han yan to ice dance and han yan rather retire than do that, so basically they forced him to retire (han yan has nails in his shoulder and his shoulder dislocates easily, plus his many years of skating as a singles skater - they effectively forced him to retire because there's no way he can do the lifts in ice dance!)

they put the emphasis on pairs so they don't give singles or ice dance any resources. everyone (even boyang himself) knows boyang's shortcomings but unless he gets better help (e.g. overseas training, etc.), his current coaching team isn't really equipped to fix them. shen/zhao don't care about singles because they only got eyes on pairs (trying to turn sui/han into shen/zhao 2.0)

wang/liu had no coach, han yan had no coach - these guys even offered to self-fund overseas training but the chinese fed won't allow them. han yan originally was about to study under raf but that got screwed over too

head coach wanted to split wang/liu (who had been paired for like 10 years?) too, originally planning to make han yan pair with wang shiyue. also, wang/liu are from the jilin side while shen/zhao are from the heilongjiang side - the power struggle between them is just a mess

people say all this is rumors but just look at what happened to han yan and maybe we'll see for ourselves.

han yan wanted to continue to 2022 (and tbh his skating skills are rare in the younger generation of skaters ... he's modeled himself after patrick chan, his skating idol, and it shows in his good skating skills!) but alas, it was not to be.

also, chinese fed are spending lots of money trying to convert chinese-americans (etc.) to chinese team. rumors are that they're trying very hard to court vincent zhao to chinese team (and we all know what this implies for boyang's position as china's ace). chinese sponsors (like the crazy rich alibaba) would rather sponsor american vincent zhao than their own chinese skaters

even if chinese skaters want to go overseas to train, chinese fed won't allow it (even if skaters offer to fund themselves), because if the skaters get good results under overseas training, then the "glory and honor" goes to the overseas coaches and not to the chinese coaches, and they would rather the athletes stay and get bad results than get good results that don't "count" towards the resumes of the chinese coaches

 

[HoneyBear]

just to add more:

wang/liu had no coach, han yan had no coach - these guys even offered to self-fund overseas training but the chinese fed won't allow them. han yan originally was about to study under raf but that got screwed over too

head coach wanted to split wang/liu (who had been paired for like 10 years?) too, originally planning to make han yan pair with wang shiyue. also, wang/liu are from the jilin side while shen/zhao are from the heilongjiang side - the power struggle between them is just a mess

The rumors are that they initially had someone else choreographed Wang/Liu's short dance but later when Pasquale Camerlengo found out that program was just disastrously bad he tried to modify the choreography. And while PC was not listed as one of their coaches, he was the only one with them at this past Worlds, while their supposed coach was no where to be seen.

chinese fed are spending lots of money trying to convert chinese-americans (etc.) to chinese team. rumors are that they're trying very hard to court vincent zhao to chinese team (and we all know what this implies for boyang's position as china's ace). chinese sponsors (like the crazy rich alibaba) would rather sponsor american vincent zhao than their own chinese skaters

With the men's singles, people are saying they had promised Vincent the position as China's ace, which translates into them covering all of his expenses but he could stay where he is now and continues to train with his team. I don't think Vincent would ever want to switch feds, especially given how little backing the Chinese fed gets from ISU, but just the thought of them wanting to simply "buy" someone instead of investing in their own skaters .... Ugh. Alibaba might have the plan to broaden their american market when they decided to sponsor Vincent, but let's see where the trade war leads.

 

[likevelvet]

:disapp: This is all such a mess. Poor Han! Thank all of you for so much info explaining such a strange situation.... so are they putting all their eggs in Boyang's basket for 2022 or do they truly just not care? I love Boyang too but wow, talk about depth of field...

 

[joanne129]

i think the whole thing is more about the political struggle between the provinces, which is a total mess. as you know, W/L is the only decent ice-dancing pair in china and they are from jilin. shen/zhao (currently in charge of everything) are from heilongjiang that they dont even want any athletes from jilin to win in the coming "chinese winter games" or something like that. thus, as W/L do not achieve outstanding results in the international field, this provides a very good excuse to split them and ask hanyan to pair with wang. the whole thing is a joke.

skating fans in china are ready for the coming drama in the off season...

 

[yyyskate]

Thanks for all these input. the power struggle between provinces (Jinlin and Helongjiang where leader S/Z from) are real... Zijun is also from Jinlin the same as W/L...

 

[saturdaysun]

I'm a little confused. Everyone seems to be implying athletes from Jinlin are looked down upon and not given any resources, etc. and a big issue is not allowing them to train outside of China, but aren't Li Zijun and Wang/Liu actually the two who have done extensive training in the States...?

Anyway I can't help but feel rumors might be a bit overblown. I remember people being very scared about the future of Sui/Han because their original coach was not Yao Bin and his "power struggles" with Luan Bo meant they would be getting less support, etc. and that obviously did not amount to anything. And there's obviously still some bitterness with the pairs switch that, frankly, has not been the disaster some people were hoping for either.

I think we can all agree Zhao Hongbo and Shen Xue seem a little overwhelmed and ill-equipped to provide enough or the right kind of support to develop successful athletes in all the disciplines. Leaving aside rumors of province power struggles or ill intentions towards specific athletes, there's a *lot* of pressure to produce results fast with 2022 just four years away. Perhaps some of their "solutions" seem extreme or unconventional but I don't think "give athletes more money and send them overseas" is a catch-all solution either for all their depth issues. China is already such a small fed and even the big feds still struggle to produce success across all the disciplines.

just the thought of them wanting to simply "buy" someone instead of investing in their own skaters .... Ugh.

You know every country does this right? American athletes with immigrant roots in particular often represent their "mother" countries in competition. During the Olympics you even saw plenty of European athletes competing for Korea, etc.

 

[icybear]

just to add more:

even if chinese skaters want to go overseas to train, chinese fed won't allow it (even if skaters offer to fund themselves), because if the skaters get good results under overseas training, then the "glory and honor" goes to the overseas coaches and not to the chinese coaches, and they would rather the athletes stay and get bad results than get good results that don't "count" towards the resumes of the chinese coaches

Really, then explain how Zijun Li got to train under Mishin in Russia and also the year before with Frank Caroll in the past. Also Chen Lu trained in the US for some time in her days. And if you really believe in the "glory and honour" going to oversea coaches then why would they use Lori Nicol and not let their skaters skate crap choregraphy to count towards Chinese choregraphers. Honestly try to use some logic.

 

[chopinskate]

Really, then explain how Zijun Li got to train under Mishin in Russia and also the year before with Frank Caroll in the past. Also Chen Lu trained in the US for some time in her days. And if you really believe in the "glory and honour" going to oversea coaches then why would they use Lori Nicol and not let their skaters skate crap choregraphy to count towards Chinese choregraphers. Honestly try to use some logic.

This makes sense. I also want to believe that the Fed isn't this disrespectful to it's own athletes. I just want them to nurture their own (extremely huge) talent.

 

[chopinskate]

You know every country does this right? American athletes with immigrant roots in particular often represent their "mother" countries in competition. During the Olympics you even saw plenty of European athletes competing for Korea, etc.

Because I don't know about this too much... Are the top athletes Boyang and S/H getting any sponsorship? It just seems they would "buy" an athlete with such promises, when their own has a good (and better) reputation, and might do better with a different team himself.

 

[saturdaysun]

Because I don't know about this too much... Are the top athletes Boyang and S/H getting any sponsorship? It just seems they would "buy" an athlete with such promises, when their own has a good (and better) reputation, and might do better with a different team himself.

Of course S/H and Boyang have support and if they would bring in any foreign athletes, it wouldn't be to replace their top talent, but to add depth, which they clearly are lacking. A lot of countries do it, but for some reason, if China does it it suddenly has a negative connotation ("buy" vs "recruit" for example).

They just don't have a lot of time before Beijing and clearly they need more than just S/H and Boyang to consistently do well, even in the somewhat short-term.

Anyway, it's all just rumors! We'll see if anything actually happens beyond Yan Han retiring...

 

[chopinskate]

Of course S/H and Boyang have support and if they would bring in any foreign athletes, it wouldn't be to replace their top talent, but to add depth, which they clearly are lacking. A lot of countries do it, but for some reason, if China does it it suddenly has a negative connotation ("buy" vs "recruit" for example).

They just don't have a lot of time before Beijing and clearly they need more than just S/H and Boyang to consistently do well, even in the somewhat short-term.

Anyway, it's all just rumors! We'll see if anything actually happens beyond Yan Han retiring...

OK, I am very glad to hear that. I think S/H are already the top pair, and I think Boyang has huuuuge potential to become the top man in the world, instead of having him being "replaced as the ace". I just hope everything works out. I don't really keep up with fed politics, so was reeling when I read that Han Yan might have had enough of it.

 

[yyyskate]

my limited knowledge (maybe all rumors):
zijun training with Mishi is sponsored by Jinlin province funding not Chinese fed.
W/L's problem started mostly this season, they were giving very poor resources this season, no training in US anymore, delayed choreo schedule and problems with their programs also training without a coach.

 

[yyyskate]

Seems like Han Yan updated his weibo, and he is hinting he has made the decision to "be retired" the retirement seems a done deal now, and he seems hinting what rumored is what happened on him.

 

[saturdaysun]

Seems like Han Yan updated his weibo, and he is hinting he has made the decision to "be retired" the retirement seems a done deal now, and he seems hinting what rumored is what happened on him.

Can you link it? All I can find is him saying even though he loves skating, there are other things he could do with his time, like travel with his family. It doesn't mention any rumors or retirement specifically. Maybe you're talking about a different post?

 

[yyyskate]

Can you link it? All I can find is him saying even though he loves skating, there are other things he could do with his time, like travel with his family. It doesn't mention any rumors or retirement specifically. Maybe you're talking about a different post?

it is this post, many Chinese fans think that is his way of very subtly hinting he was forced into retirement due to what rumored.

 

[saturdaysun]

it is this post, many Chinese fans think that is his way of very subtly hinting he was forced into retirement due to what rumored.

Well that is... jumping to quite huge conclusions based on nothing, and a good example of how "rumors" spread.

 

[yyyskate]

Well that is... jumping to quite huge conclusions based on nothing, and a good example of how "rumors" spread.

not my personal opinion (i don't know much about this whole mess), this is what I saw on Chinese platform. most fans interpreted Han's post like that.

 

[saturdaysun]

not my personal opinion (i don't know much about this whole mess), this is what I saw on Chinese platform. most fans interpreted Han's post like that.

I know, that's what I was referring to. Fans seeing something that's not there and spreading it around until most people just see "rumors" as truth even when there is nothing to suggest that.

He probably is retired, I think we can see that's obvious. It probably wasn't his choice (based on his original Weibo). Beyond that there's nothing even close to confirmation of any of the more crazy rumors.

Selfishly, I adore Wang/Liu so I hope Han's retirement means they won't be broken up.

 

[yyyskate]

I know, that's what I was referring to. Fans seeing something that's not there and spreading it around until most people just see "rumors" as truth even when there is nothing to suggest that.

He probably is retired, I think we can see that's obvious. It probably wasn't his choice (based on his original Weibo). Beyond that there's nothing even close to confirmation of any of the more crazy rumors.

Selfishly, I adore Wang/Liu so I hope Han's retirement means they won't be broken up.

again just what I read, the rumor (why Han retired) is from the those real Han Yan fans who are very close to him.

 

[BillNeal]

Sad if these rumors are true. Really enjoyed the contemporary route Han took with his programs this season and was looking forward to seeing him develop. Also sad to hear about these rumors in regards to Wang/Liu. I too adore them, they are my favourite up and coming dance team. With the right support, they can take Chinese dance to the next level.