"Skate Bored"

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Sorry Dogwood, with the few skaters who dressed in competition clothing did not prevent the entire Sunday afteroon circuses from being non serious competitions. Granted, they were entertaining for some people but not enough to keep the sponsors interested. Ratings fell quite a bit. The skaters never developed the kind of following that Golf had and still has.

Pro skating might have happend if it was better planned with winners and losers as it is in Golf and with suitable prize monies for the contestants.

The Ice War Shows (and that's how I think about them) were entertaining.
However, do you actually remember which Teams won the Ice Wars? and how important all that was?

Joe

 

[Mathman]

The Ice War Shows (and that's how I think about them) were entertaining.

However, do you actually remember which Teams won the Ice Wars? and how important all that was?

Joe

I can’t speak for Dogwood, but I remember lots of those Ice Wars shows and other pro competitions. (Team U.S.A. won most of the early ones, but now the World Team has won three of the last four.)

Maybe it is not as important as who won the 2000 Nebelhorn Trophy or Four Continents, but Ice Wars 2000 was one of my favorites. The expectation was that the judges would go with the U.S. team (home cooking), but Surya Bonaly and Philippe Candeloro came up big against Nicloe Bobek and Rudy Galindo and pulled it out for the World Team.

Mostly, though, just like in competitive skating, it’s the performances that are memorable, more so than the scores. Who can forget Brian Boitano’s Wild Elephants in 1999!

And for Michelle Kwan fans, her absolutely quintessential work (far more memorable than either of her Olympic performances) came at the 1998 Pro-Am. In the technical program she skated the definitive 7-triple performance of Ariane, and in the “artistic” program, the definitive performance of the East of Eden exhibition program.

Do you like edge work? Check out Michelle’s extended forward COE spiral to backward spiral, all in one continuous movement on one foot. I have never seen Michelle or anyone else do that before or since.

Do you like tech? Last year Shizuka Arakawa opened her Star Wars performance with a 3S/3Lo/3T combination – something she never attempted in competition (and certainly not in her Olympic performance).

I just like good skating, whatever the format. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

 

[dogwood]

Sorry Dogwood, with the few skaters who dressed in competition clothing did not prevent the entire Sunday afteroon circuses from being non serious competitions. Granted, they were entertaining for some people but not enough to keep the sponsors interested. Ratings fell quite a bit. The skaters never developed the kind of following that Golf had and still has.

Pro skating might have happend if it was better planned with winners and losers as it is in Golf and with suitable prize monies for the contestants.

The Ice War Shows (and that's how I think about them) were entertaining.
However, do you actually remember which Teams won the Ice Wars? and how important all that was?

Joe

Again I'm not sure what you mean by the "few skaters who dressed in competive clothing". Who were the many who didn't? I can't think of too many offhand, As far as the ratings dropping quite a bit, of course they did. There weren't many true North American stars who entered the pro ranks post 1998, and advertisers and fans love their home-grown heroes. Ratings for eligible skating have dropped for the exact same reason. As far as events being serious competitions, I think people watched to see good skaters perform and probably didn't care that much about scores and results, and there's nothing wrong with that. One only has to look at the immoveabilty of Ice Dance podiums in all events from one Olympiad to another to understand that serious compettition isn't what drives all fans to watch. That discipline was always entertaining show skating disguised as competition with the results predetermined. Yet in Russia and the rest of Europe, it's was the most popular event by far.

Mathman:

I can’t speak for Dogwood, but I remember lots of those Ice Wars shows and other pro competitions. (Team U.S.A. won most of the early ones, but now the World Team has won three of the last four.)....Mostly, though, just like in competitive skating, it’s the performances that are memorable, more so than the scores

Mathman, you speak very well for me. When I think about performance that I have on tape and go back to watch from time to time, about half of them are eligible skates and the other half pro skates. With some skaters like Scott Hamilton, I've never rewatched or even saved any of his eligible programs. His finest work was as a pro. I love Kurt Browning and always thought he was a great skater and great competitor, but until Casablanca in 1993, his programs weren't that memorable. I've saved many of his pro programs. I'd say the same for Boitano, always was a marvelous skater and an incredible competitor, but until the Bezic programs in 1988 his work wasn't up to his ablilities. Many of his pro programs like "Elegy for Harp and Strings" are keepers as well. And you're right, "Wild Elephants" was indeed very clever.
And as far as Michelle Kwan's 1998 East of Eden, you are absolutely right. It is simply brilliant.

Mathman:

It seems funny to see Michelle Kwan listed among those ladies who left the sport too soon. After all, she won her first Senior World Championship at 15 and was on the world podium for 9 straight years!

I only meant that 25 is realtively young for a great star to leave the sport. But I would never suggest that anyone leaves the sport "too soon." Skaters should leave the sport on their own time and in their own way.

 

[Johar]

Interesting comments were left below the article. Did anyone else post one besides me?

 

[wildone]

I think at times like these, you need the pros to pick up the slack of the eligibles. You need one or two pro-am events to lead into or build up an eligible event.

One can't do without the other. I thin the mid to late 90s had the best of both worlds. They had great pros -- Yamaguchi, Gordeeva, Wylie, Browning, Boitano, Hamilton that were still near the top of their game. On the eligible side you had - Todd, Kwan, Irina, Tara, and others. It was a good mesh.

Maybe there were more pro events but they were a little more exciting for the average viewer they did it to contemporary music - Brickhouse, 100% Pure Love, and others. We loved them because they were sentimental favorites or had personalities - Browning, Hamilton, and Kulik. Boitano was a purist so that was his personality.

All this fed into the excitement of the eligible skaters. The Disson shows need to do a better job of promoting the eligible skaters -- say something like you could see Evan or T/B at Nationals or whatever competition. Distinguish the pros from the eligibles so there is a feeder.

 

[R.D.]

The Disson shows need to do a better job of promoting the eligible skaters -- say something like you could see Evan or T/B at Nationals or whatever competition. Distinguish the pros from the eligibles so there is a feeder.

In fact, there was a promo during the Wynonna Tribute on Ice- after Kimmie did her first performance they did a "US FIgure Skating" piece on her where she talked about her preparedness for Nationals and then afterwards NBC ran an ad for Nationals- they said it was "coming January 26th".

Overall, I agree with you though- this is a good start but more needs to be done IMO. Maybe they will come up with something as the time nears.

 

[dogwood]

I think it's interesting with the end of the Collins tour to see how all of this plays out. Is Stars on Ice going to have a summer tour and incorporate eligible skaters? The money is certainly going to get tight for these eligibles. And with the ISU losing it's lucrative TV contracts it will be interesting to see how long they will be able to pay skaters. The Disson shows on NBC are going to want to get these eligibles involved as much as possible since they have the Olympics in 2010, but so many of those shows are filmed during the height of the Grand Prix season. Ah, it is all becoming so complicated.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

II just like good skating, whatever the format. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

I like less than good skating too. That's why I am more interested in TOTAL international competitions more so than 4 Americans vs. 2 non-americans a la Campbells.

International competitions are for me. For my artistic cravings I get satisfied outside figure skating - not bashing figure skating here- just thinking how much more I enjoy Romeo and Juliet as portrayed by Villazon and Netrebko to Gounod's music.

I'm beig snobby here but I can't help what grabs me. Competitions do when they are full international.

Joe

 

[R.D.]

I think it's interesting with the end of the Collins tour to see how all of this plays out. Is Stars on Ice going to have a summer tour and incorporate eligible skaters? The money is certainly going to get tight for these eligibles. And with the ISU losing it's lucrative TV contracts it will be interesting to see how long they will be able to pay skaters. The Disson shows on NBC are going to want to get these eligibles involved as much as possible since they have the Olympics in 2010, but so many of those shows are filmed during the height of the Grand Prix season. Ah, it is all becoming so complicated.

WIth ESPN likely finishing up its last GP telecast, that may no longer be an issue. I think we have seen the last of the GP as far as TV goes...and sad to say, I'm not really going to shed a tear about it...

I think all we will see from here on out is the World championships, as well as SA/US Nats and any pro-ams USFS decides to set up. we *may* get 4CCs and Euros but I wouldn't even count on that.

 

[dogwood]

WIth ESPN likely finishing up its last GP telecast, that may no longer be an issue. I think we have seen the last of the GP as far as TV goes...and sad to say, I'm not really going to shed a tear about it...

I agree! I only watch very little of the GP events anymore. I remember in 1998 I watched the Grand Prix events, the Grand Prix Final, Nationals, Europeans, 4CC's and by the time the Olympics came around most of it seemed stale to me. That was the first year I can remember that I didn't watch the World Championships; I just couldn't bear to see it all again. Talk about pros shooting themselves in the foot with too many meaningless competitions where skaters skated the same progams over and over. The ISU did the exact same thing. I think if the Grand Prix series folds it might be good for the health of the skaters. Maybe we'll start to see fewer skaters who need hip replacement in their 20's.

 

[hockeyfan228]

I don't know about Scott refusing to appear as a "cartoon character or in a fruit

Usually the incoming Olympic champion was spared for a couple of years, but when the next champion came in, it was time to move over and out and become a bunny or a carrot.

manleywoman just did a podcast with a great interview with David Santee, who, luckily, became a member of the John Curry company. That wasn't Hamilton's style, but it set the bar way beyond the Ice Capades.

http://www.manleywoman.com/
(click "Podcast" or go to iTunes)

I used to go to the Ice Capades when I was a kid and sit in a bored trance until the real skating started.

 

[ragsy]

I The Disson shows on NBC are going to want to get these eligibles involved as much as possible since they have the Olympics in 2010, but so many of those shows are filmed during the height of the Grand Prix season.

I agree with this completely. Did anyone catch Kristi Yamaguchi's Friends & Family special? I missed it the first time it was aired, but caught a repeat a couple of weeks ago. I think that show had the correct musical formula to bring in an entirely new audience to skating. The musical guests were Corbin Bleu (from High School Musical) and the Cheetah Girls. The audience was filled with screaming tweens. I realize that they were there primarily for the musical guests, but they were very much engaged during the rest of the skating, oohing and ahhing over every jump and spin. What the USFSA should do is hook into this new audience with the new crop of skaters (Caroline, Mirai, Rachael Flatt, Ashley Wagner, etc.) Even Kimmie and Emily, while a little older, are still not outside the tween range. Add in some cute junior/senior boys as well as the U.S. pairs and dance teams that have been making a splash on the junior circuit and promote it heavily on the tween TV channels (Nickelodeon, Disney(?), Family, etc.) and there is a brand new built in audience.

I think they should replace the three old cheesefest competitions with Disson shows with musical guests that cater to this age range. These kids weren't even born during the Nancy/Tonya saga and were only toddlers (if that!) during the late 1990's when skating was at its peak. They are a brand set of eyes with which to view skating and parents will bring their kids to wholesome family entertainment -- just look at ruckus over the Hannah Montana concerts the past couple of months.

These shows don't even have to be filmed live. Remember the early Disney shows (MK's Mulan, Princesses on Ice, etc.) were done in either closed rinks or studios without an audience. They can film these anytime during the year and replay them over and over on the tween channels and the kids will come to recognize the skaters. Then advertise the heck out of the competitions (Nationals, Worlds, etc.) and reel the kids (and their parents) in.

We all agree that the skating world is losing its grip on the television audience. The Disson shows that air now are enjoyable and cater to the existing audience, but don't bring in any new viewers. The only way to do that is to appeal to the preferences of new viewers. This might be the way to do it.

 

[Mathman]

I used to go to the Ice Capades when I was a kid and sit in a bored trance until the real skating started.

For me it was the two skaters in a dog costume that busted in two at the end of the act and spilled the skaters out! Now that's entertainment!!!!

Then when I got to be a teenager, taking your girlfriend to the Ice Capades for Christmas -- that was the classiest date in town. The other guys just took their girlfriends bowling -- what a bunch of losers!

What the USFSA should do is hook into this new audience with the new crop of skaters (Caroline, Mirai, Rachael Flatt, Ashley Wagner, etc.) Even Kimmie and Emily, while a little older, are still not outside the tween range. Add in some cute junior/senior boys as well as the U.S. pairs and dance teams that have been making a splash on the junior circuit and promote it heavily on the tween TV channels (Nickelodeon, Disney(?), Family, etc.) and there is a brand new built in audience.

That's an amazing idea. I don't know about those over-the-hill grannies like Kimmie and Emily, but there are goo-gobs are young juniors and novices, especially ice dancers, who can really put on a show.

I agree with everything in your post 100%. :agree:

 

[Nigel]

Has anyone forwarded these ideas to USFS/ Disson/ Tom Collins?

 

[heyang]

I tend to agree with the general state of US Skating. There is no favorite or rivalry, except for mens which is not heavily promoted in the US.

While Kimmie has won a World Championship, it was partly because of blunders by the more experienced favorites. She didn't really wow the audience and not being able to stand on the podium the following year didn't help. Emily has been moving up in World's, but hasn't reached the podium. The others (Alyssa, Bebe)have fallen too much - I would love for either of these 2 to have a Galindo moment. On top of that, the rising juniors are already beginning to overshadow the current top US ladies. At this point, the USFSA doesn't have a definite dominate champion to promote - thus, diluting.

Tanith and Ben garnered a lot of attention with her citizenship story and winning a medal. However, they still haven't been able to bring home gold. So, how do you promote winners who are not champions? Not many people are interested in who wins 2nd or 3rd or 4th....

For Nationals, you can promote a Lysacek/Weir rivalry, but it's not strong enough to promote World's where either is not a lock at a medal, let a lone gold.

Forget pairs.

 

[dogwood]

Then when I got to be a teenager, taking your girlfriend to the Ice Capades for Christmas -- that was the classiest date in town. The other guys just took their girlfriends bowling -- what a bunch of losers!

Oh I remember this so well, I was a junior in high school and my boyfriend invited me to dinner and the Ice Capades over Christmas vacation. Definitely the "classiest date in town" and I let everyone know about it. But alas, on the day of the show it snowed like the devil and our parents wouldn't let us make the 40 mile drive. We probably went bowling instead. I'm still bitter about it,

 

[Ladskater]

Goodness, what a bleak article. I am sure the lack of a couple of skating stars will not spell the end for figure skating. At least it is still alive and well here in Canada. We may not get the great coverage we always got with CTV and the CBC, but I don't think interest in figure skating here has changed. People still love it and there are plenty of rinks to keep the sport going. I think the US focuses too much on "Star" power. After all, there are many great skaters who don't even become World or Olympic Champions.

I think as long there is ice, there will be figure skating....

:agree:

 

[dlarry1]

I think that show had the correct musical formula to bring in an entirely new audience to skating.

I really think this is the key. There are the hard core fans, but they can't make a financial/advertising/economic impact on their own. So we have to bring in new fans.

How? Well, I wonder if Evan's idea of promoting the "extreme" side of skating has merit. I was fascinated by the story of Arakawa's 37 2Ts in a row. Jumping contests? Speed contests? Spin contests? SOMETHING is needed to bring in the male crowd, the young crowd, and the uncommitted crowd.

Personally, I'd love to see the pro competitions come back. Some of my favorite programs, and favorite performers (Hartshorn and Swieding!) I saw for the first time at the pro level...

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

For Nationals, you can promote a Lysacek/Weir rivalry, but it's not strong enough to promote World's where either is not a lock at a medal, let a lone gold.

Forget pairs.

Absolutely! and even if Lysacek and Weir were the only two like Mao and YuNa, it would not get Americans interested (except die hard fans) in wondering who will win. Americans have not been nurtured towards Mens, Pairs, or Dance. Figure Skating is only a costume show and they don't care who wins or loses.

Joe

 

[Johar]

I also once had a boyfriend take me to an ice skating show. It was alot of fun!