"Skate Bored"

[gsrossano]

How? Well, I wonder if Evan's idea of promoting the "extreme" side of skating has merit. I was fascinated by the story of Arakawa's 37 2Ts in a row. Jumping contests? Speed contests? Spin contests? SOMETHING is needed to bring in the male crowd, the young crowd, and the uncommitted crowd.

Just to be provocative and stir the pot on a lazy day, Why?

Who cares if skating is not as big as it was 15 years ago? Who cares if we have a reduced TV contract? There was skating in the past without TV money. There was skating before there was even TV -- or radio -- or movies. So it will be smaller and there will be less money involved. So what? There will still be skating at some level for the people who want to do it, and for the people who enjoy watching it.

What is the goal for being BIG? Is it all about the money? The power? The ego? I certainly think that speedy has wanted the ISU to be big and important and powerful only so he can go to the IOC and say 'I am the president of an important international governing body, I should have influence and power in the IOC.' Since he was elected in 1994, I have failed to see any passion in him that says he loved figure skating, or even speed skating for that matter.

And why should skating be turned into something radically different to get big just for the sake of being big? So more people may watch it. Will that make it a 'better' sport? So it is a sport mainly for girls. So what?

[I appologize in advance. The devil made me do it]

 

[gio]

Did anyone catch Kristi Yamaguchi's Friends & Family special? I missed it the first time it was aired, but caught a repeat a couple of weeks ago. I think that show had the correct musical formula to bring in an entirely new audience to skating. The musical guests were Corbin Bleu (from High School Musical) and the Cheetah Girls.

Italian TV showed it two days ago. Those Cheetas and the Corbin Bleu boy left me completely unimpressed. I'd rather see a million of Carmens, Toscas, Swan Lakes, Nutcrackers, Malaguenas than those teenage music.

A part from the musical guests, the show was pretty nice with Katya Gordeeva and her daughters (Daria is a pretty grown up girl now), the rock star Sabovcik with his sons (wow his first son is tall nearly as him, I wonder how old he is?), Weiss, Kerrigann, Petrenko, Kulik all skating with their cute kids.

 

[feraina]

I also once had a boyfriend take me to an ice skating show. It was alot of fun!

I'm so jealous! I know what I'm asking for my next birthday.

 

[Mathman]

What is the goal for being BIG?

Well, that's totally obvious. Big is BIG. Small -- no, that's small.

Look at the Super Bowl, for instance. BIG.

The Grand Canyon. BIG.

Jupiter. BIG.

Now, if you are asking, "why should figure skating fans try to get other people to be figure skating fans, too?" that's also obvious. So they can go out and convert still more people to being figure skating fans. (This goes along with BIG.)

Is it all about the money?

Here's the thing about money. It's MONEY!

When you have it, you have MONEY! When you don't have it, you don't have any MONEY!

All seriousness aside, though, the question, "What's so bad about figure skating being a girls' sport?" is well taken. There are plenty of sports that are boys sports, though girls are grudgingly allowed to play, too, like American football and basketball. What's the harm in having a girls' sport without the boys coming along to muscle them out of the way with quads and triple Axels?

In Ellen Kestnbaum's excellent book Culture on Ice she mentions that 150 years ago, in the public outdoor rinks of London, women were not allowed on the main rink. This was so they wouldn't get knocked down by the young lads with their boisterous barrel jumping, etc. Ladies had their own small rink off to the side, but the boys could come over and waltz with their girlfriends if they were feeling particularly gallant. :yes:

 

[dlarry1]

Just to be provocative and stir the pot on a lazy day, Why?

Who cares if skating is not as big as it was 15 years ago? Who cares if we have a reduced TV contract? There was skating in the past without TV money. There was skating before there was even TV -- or radio -- or movies. So it will be smaller and there will be less money involved. So what? There will still be skating at some level for the people who want to do it, and for the people who enjoy watching it.

What is the goal for being BIG? Is it all about the money? The power? The ego? I certainly think that speedy has wanted the ISU to be big and important and powerful only so he can go to the IOC and say 'I am the president of an important international governing body, I should have influence and power in the IOC.' Since he was elected in 1994, I have failed to see any passion in him that says he loved figure skating, or even speed skating for that matter.

And why should skating be turned into something radically different to get big just for the sake of being big? So more people may watch it. Will that make it a 'better' sport? So it is a sport mainly for girls. So what?

[I appologize in advance. The devil made me do it]

No need to apologize, and I commend you on a response I never would have anticipated...

I guess my response would be, skating needs to be bigger to ensure its survival as an international sport. Funding begets exposure begets more skaters. Just want to make sure that pipeline remains primed.

We don't really want skating to be on the same level as curling and biathlon, do we?

 

[moojja]

All seriousness aside, though, the question, "What's so bad about figure skating being a girls' sport?" is well taken. There are plenty of sports that are boys sports, though girls are grudgingly allowed to play, too, like American football and basketball. What's the harm in having a girls' sport without the boys coming along to muscle them out of the way with quads and triple Axels?

B/c then it would suck to be a boy who happen to like figure skating?

Fairness?

B/c it's wrong to marginalize the great women who are playing in traditionally male sports.
It's also wrong to marginalize men competing in traditionally female dominated sports. Two wrongs doesn't make it easier on guys who happen to likes figure skating.

Condi Rice was complaining that as a young female, she was only allow to compete in figure skating because it was thought as a feminine sport. But she didn't like figure skating. You can ague the reverse, why should some boys have to do hockey if they rather jump.

I don't believe in drawing gender roles in sports. Then you'll lose more than you'll gain.

 

[gsrossano]

I guess my response would be, skating needs to be bigger to ensure its survival as an international sport. Funding begets exposure begets more skaters. Just want to make sure that pipeline remains primed.

That is the question. Does the sport simply retrench into something that is smaller, but survivable and economically viable? Or does it collapse and die?

My suspicion is that it simple shrinks back to what the market can support. Say what we 20 years ago.

Although I meant to be provocative to see what people would respond, I do seriously object to striving to be big just for the sake of being big. I am fine with a smaller sport, if the quality does not suffer. I don't think the popularity of the sport at it's peak was ever going to be sustainable in the long run, and some decline was inevitable. What bothers me is the the decline is much greater than it would have been had not the ISU, and others, not made some terrible decisions over the last 5-10 years.

So now, how do we repair the damage? One thing that I find interesting about discussions of how to repair the damage is that while we all have our pet ideas about the problems and the solutions (and that includes me) no one it seems has done any market research to say definitively THIS is the problem and THIS is the solution. So for now everything is all opinion and guess work. Not a good way to run a business.

 

[hockeyfan228]

I certainly think that speedy has wanted the ISU to be big and important and powerful only so he can go to the IOC and say 'I am the president of an important international governing body, I should have influence and power in the IOC.' Since he was elected in 1994, I have failed to see any passion in him that says he loved figure skating, or even speed skating for that matter.

I agree with those who say that Cinquanta wants to take over for Rogge and head the IOC. I think CoP was invented -- and was in the planning stages before SLC -- to impress the IOC. (Completely separate from whether I like it.)

I agree with 99.9% of your post. I do care if there's no TV coverage and the only way to see skating is to travel to see it. I do hope that there is, somewhere, a feed with all of the skaters, so that someone, somewhere catches and publishes the performances, even if they are on a tiny screen. With all of the commercials and fluff, I'm not sure we've seen that much more coverage on US TV in the last decade, at least for major events, than was on Wide World of Sports. I'd hate to go back to that, because it's not what Eurosport (at least British), CCTV5, Sport (Russia), and Japanese TV are doing now; their coverage is more extensive.

I thought Worlds in Moscow, in the smaller rink, was much, much nicer than Worlds in DC, in that huge barn. There are plenty of smaller rinks in Europe, if popularity reaches a more realistic equilibrium, and they are wonderful venues for competitive skating.

What I hoped more popularity and coverage would fix is the little fiefdoms and local politics; after all, it was a sport where for years Jews weren't allowed in, because to be a skater meant being a member of a club that literally wouldn't have you.

 

[ragsy]

Italian TV showed it two days ago. Those Cheetas and the Corbin Bleu boy left me completely unimpressed. I'd rather see a million of Carmens, Toscas, Swan Lakes, Nutcrackers, Malaguenas than those teenage music.

Believe me, these acts wouldn't be my first musical choices, either But, my point was not to cater to the existing audience, but rather to expand it by tapping into a new audience. Right now, the U.S. has a huge tween market and a good sized group of potentially very good to great young skaters that fit that tween market. If the two can be put together successfully, it could mean big things in terms of the amount of all types of skating programming available on TV as well as sponsorship and endorsements for the skaters themselves.

Unfortunately, these kids are not going to relate to Barry Manilow and Wynonna Judd, but they will relate to musical acts appropriate for their own age group, especially those that they already know and enjoy.

One thing that I find interesting about discussions of how to repair the damage is that while we all have our pet ideas about the problems and the solutions (and that includes me) no one it seems has done any market research to say definitively THIS is the problem and THIS is the solution. So for now everything is all opinion and guess work. Not a good way to run a business.

I certainly can't claim to have done any market research myself , but it seems that this is kind of a no brainer. The kids loved what they saw at Kristi's show, so give them more of it and hopefully, they will grow into lifelong skating fans!!

 

[ragsy]

One thing that I find interesting about discussions of how to repair the damage is that while we all have our pet ideas about the problems and the solutions (and that includes me) no one it seems has done any market research to say definitively THIS is the problem and THIS is the solution. So for now everything is all opinion and guess work. Not a good way to run a business.

The above paragraph was supposed to be a quote in my last entry -- I messed that one up and can't figure out how to fix it

Sorry!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think it is a little girl's sport and only in America.

There is no solution. It has been in the hands of the American media much too long. JMO

Joe

 

[Linny]

Good points

I am fine with a smaller sport, if the quality does not suffer.

Excellent point. I, too, am fine with a smaller sport. My favorite sport is dressage. Most Americans have never seen it. It gets about 30 seconds of television coverage per year.

Of course, if I want to see dressage, I can travel to a local show and see dressage. Most of the time, it's free for audience members. Once a year, I pay an admission to see Dressage at Devon.

Funding for the athletes? Some dressage riders support themselves be teaching, or breeding horses, or being involved in some aspect of the sport professionally. Other dressage riders are heirs and heiresses. The vast majority, though, work long and hard at other jobs to be able to afford their passion. I'm guessing - though I don't have cold hard numbers - that the expense for dressage is comparable to the expense for figure skating. At least at the lower levels.

Yes, I love the fact that I can see figure skating on TV. I hope it stays that way. But if the sport isn't as big and I don't get to see Phillipe Candeloro playing with props to win a so-called Professional Championship, well, no problem. If real honest skating competitions in the Professional ranks could be brought back, I'd be there, watching or buying tickets.

Linny

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Excellent point. I, too, am fine with a smaller sport. My favorite sport is dressage. Most Americans have never seen it. It gets about 30 seconds of television coverage per year.

Of course, if I want to see dressage, I can travel to a local show and see dressage. Most of the time, it's free for audience members. Once a year, I pay an admission to see Dressage at Devon.

Funding for the athletes? Some dressage riders support themselves be teaching, or breeding horses, or being involved in some aspect of the sport professionally. Other dressage riders are heirs and heiresses. The vast majority, though, work long and hard at other jobs to be able to afford their passion. I'm guessing - though I don't have cold hard numbers - that the expense for dressage is comparable to the expense for figure skating. At least at the lower levels.

Yes, I love the fact that I can see figure skating on TV. I hope it stays that way. But if the sport isn't as big and I don't get to see Phillipe Candeloro playing with props to win a so-called Professional Championship, well, no problem. If real honest skating competitions in the Professional ranks could be brought back, I'd be there, watching or buying tickets.

Linny

I believe the Sport has always been a small sport like many small sports that are even in the Olympics.

Lovers of Figure Skating in America owe a debt to Hockey for all these Arenas around the country. No one builds a figure skating arena. They are only built when a country is hosting a Winter Olympics, and even at that, it is shared with Hockey and other sports requiring an ice surface.

Not every game in baseball is sold out at the stadiums but when there is a possible exciting game scheduled, it is. That's what figure skating needs someone to make it exciting.

Joe

 

[fairly4]

Only die hard fans watch figure skating anymore in US.
why there are plenty of reasons -range from the skaters themselves,(by their attitudes, whining about not picking on mistakes, complaining about how to talk, low attendance, not wanting to skate for amateurs) to the pros's complaining about rigged judging on Television (dick button, Peggy Fleming, Scott Hamilton, Brian boitano etc) for the past 50 years. it seem that the US past champions complained about the rigged judging not thinking the american public believed they won according to it being rigged for them ( us ogm to win).
to the us pros's , usfsa, figure skating media to who the american public should root for. the usfsa allowing Tara in under a old rule (which she shouldn't be in), helping tanith citizenship, Sasha shooting to the top without proper technique,
stating it is okay to CHEAT AS LONG AS THEY SKATE FAST. ignoring the proper skating technique, jumps, clean skate.
the normal average fan got bored, tired of hearing it all the time and finally when the skaters stated we didn't have to skate for fans. the fans owe us meaning the skaters, and then whining about not winning a OGM, flaunting it during the week of the games didn't help.
stating the new cop will make it harder to cheat when in actuality it is easier .
the average fan is upset,and it not coming back. unless you (skaters and skating community makes a drastic change). the cop is bringing back the nightmare of figures. where they win on a short program -great and still skate a lousy or okay long and win.
also it doesn't help when the pros's who should no longer skate, still does and then do their old programs from a while back.
people have got to remember before 1994 it was barely seen on TV --only worlds, national and the Olympics was shown.--after that all shows including pros's and amateurs is shown--despite how you try -you can only do so much in figure skating without being repetitive. which is what skating really is repetitive.
people are noticing everyone doing the same thing over the 10 year span from pros's to amateurs. so skating is boring.