Ladies SP -- Discuss and share live PBP here!
- Thread starter Tonichelle
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- Joined
- Nov 21, 2008
I think because a single Lutz only value 0.6 ponits and there are not allow to have the negative point value, you can't take -3 from when base value only 0.6 so it become -0.3 in the GOE.
Judging from SP score, I debt Mao would never win even if she landed 3A and 3-3combos
On the contrary, Mao is very close behind, even with a downgraded 3-3 and probably two spins having lower levels (sit and layback). The difference in PCS is 0.76... Not exactly overwhelming. 3 judges actually scored Mao higher in PCS and one gave them exactly the same scores.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
I agree completely - it shouldn't matter what the competition is but you said that this was worse. To my mind it isn't worse as, for now, it hasn't affected the end result. The result of an SP of GP final is not as important as proved cheating in the whole of the judging of an Olympic competition. The overall result means far more than the result of one part of the competition, and also I completely disagree that this SP has been judged incorrectly until i can see the protocols. Proclamations made before the protocols are even published come accross as hard luck moaning from fans of a skater who has seemingly been hard done by.
Mao and Yuna are practically tied. I think this is representative of their skill. Lets see the protocols before we claim something is amiss with the judging.
Ant
ITA!! I am neither Yuna nor Mao fan, but I think that in the situation: popped jump vs. URed jump in combo (so the 3-2 combo was still there) and with two comparable programs when it comes to quality of elements etc., Mao should have been placed 1st. This would also made sense for a casual fan.
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2008
No. The -GOE take ratio into an account. If she land the 3Lz and fall, she will received -3 from 6 point base value, and will get credit for 3 point. If she double the lutz, which is 1.9 value, even the judge give her -2 or -3 GOE, the jump will get fraction of that 1.9 value, which will probably end up with -1GOE after the computer round out. Other wise a popped jump with end up with - jump value and i think computer doesn't take -3 GOE for a jump value that doesn't exist. Sometime skater will get o value, because of the -3 GOE and -1 for deduction for the fall, in 3T case (which has 4 point value), a skater basically get zero credit.
Yukari got ! on her flip at this time. She got ! on her lutz at other times. She does not seem to have very good edge control on these jumps. Mao's lutz is always on the edge, whether it's true lutz or changed into flutz at the last minute. But Yukari's lutz and flip are similar to Fumie's lutz in a sense that the edge is wobbly. To me, her flip in the slow-mo looked like starting with the outside and changed into the inside although it may have looked different from another angle.
This time, I thought that she both flutzed and URed as well, but neither of them were called. Yet, she received -1 GOE on her lutz.
What was the minus GOE for Caro's lutz? I thought that she might have flutzed, but it was not called.
This time, I thought that she both flutzed and URed as well, but neither of them were called. Yet, she received -1 GOE on her lutz.
What was the minus GOE for Caro's lutz? I thought that she might have flutzed, but it was not called.
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According to the protocol, Yu-Na got 0.3 with 1Lz which means -5.7 deduction from 3Lz base value 6.0. On the other hand, Mao got 5.2 with URed 3F-3Lo (base value 7.0 and negative GOE -1.8). Compared with 3F-3Lo base value 10.5, she lost 5.3 points. So there is essentially no advantage for Mao. I think this is quite reasonable in the current judging system.
I just can't figure out how come a person with both lip and flutz:scratch:
Addition: I think it reasonable for a skater to get high PCS when he/she lacks/misses some elements, e.g. Mao's LP in 2008 worlds. But the case is that, Mao did performed better in that particular LP than in any other competitions though she fell on that 3A(2A).......
so here comes my question, how can judges give such a high PCS to a relatively worse performance of Miss KIM?? That means from the beginning of this season, she was undermarked for many times......
there must be something wrong with this judging system
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That happens.
There are skaters who get edge calls on both (usually across different events though). It may be partly because of variability in callers. But another factor may be wobbly edges.
Correcting the edge on one jump also can negatively affect another.
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2007
In spite of her popped lutz, I don't think 'Miss Kim" (as you say)'s performance was one of her worst, who says? it's all subjective, isn't it? For example, I don't quite agree that Mao's PCS in her 2008 worlds LP was deserved, given how she hung out there for almost a minute doing nothing after her fall. That interlude really killed the program for me, whereas Yuna's popped lutz was not disruptive for the overall program in the same way.
As for Mao, she seems to be finally getting somewhere with her new SP. At least for me personally, it was becoming more 'understandable'; I mean I could finally understand what this program, as a choreographical ensemble, was "trying to be." And she made fewer obvious mistakes, although not perfect. So, good for her. But, her program is still just too bland, and personally, I really can't compare it to Yuna's gripping, kickass program, that gives me goose bumps all over again. Frankly, I think Yuna could have gotten more than 65.94, even with the singled lutz. Like, I don't see why she got level 3 on her spiral, for example.
just watched kim's program on youtube. awesome as usual.... aside from the popped lutz. she stirs emotions in me that have been long dead since kwan left.... and THAT'S why I love her skating. I don't think i've ever seen a crowd reaction like that. asada is as popular in japan, but japanese crowds are generally more reserved imo. the korean fans went CRAZY... it was so fun to watch. 
I totally agree.
Well, I think falling on a jump should affect PCS more seriously than popping because it badly cuts the overall flow. Mao's 2008 LP was particularly so. She did almost nothing for 20 seconds after such a big fall. Nevertheless she got very high PCS, which I feel something is wrong.
As for the Yu-Na's performance today, I don't think it was relatively worse. Compared with SA, her 3F-3T was more spectacular (all judges except one gave +2 GOE), 2A was clean and her spins were improved a lot.
First of all, I have no sense toward neither Yuan's nor Mao's performance so far, so I don't think I'd like to praise either.
Secondly, I DID NOT say "this was one of her worst", I just said it was relatively worse, pls refered to what I said and pls calm down, don't be allergic.
Thirdly, IMO, KIM performanced better in COC though some may argued. Because I watched both live, so I don't think the PCS in GPF would be higher than she got in COC. She seemed to be more nervous in GPF that she certainly did not perform as good as what she used to do--since you exert so much attention on her, you must find it out.
Lastly, I listed ASADA's LP in 2008 doesn't mean I am a fan of her. And the reason I guess why judge gave her that PCS based on the fact that she didn't stop the music after that fall. What a reasonable man would do after that fall may require for a break to check if he remains OK, we should not impose critical requirements on athletes, coz they are human beings. Even though I have no sense to most of Mao's performance, I still regard this as one of her best, not for the elements or so, but for her spirit towards this sport.
1. so you think stop the music and start again would be a better choice?
2. if you try to bind the tes and the pcs as a whole, then I would prefer her sp in SA, especially the 2A was nearly perfect in SA, say the time she landed the 2A harmonized with the stress of her music, which impressed me a lot
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1. No. It depends. If the skater quickly recovers from the fall and skates to the music harmoniously, then it would not affect PCS much. Still, I think that popping is better than falling as far as PCS is concerned.
2. OK. I accept it as your opinion. But for me her spin was not good in SA and I cannot say I prefer SA even in PCSwise.
This I may agree. But, as far as I understand, PCS is not a score to measure a skater's sprit towards the sport.
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2007
Well put.
Yu-na edged out Mao by just 0.5 pts or so after all, and by even less in PCS. She doesn't have to apologize to anyone for that, including Mao, just because Mao made great progress.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
Rember when Mao did not do her lutz last year at the GPF and everybody was so mad cause she was not last. Well now yu-na pops a lutz (which amounts to really the same as if she had not done it) and she is in first. Yeah, that SP is beautiful and all, but she shoud not be ahead of a clean Mao who landed a 3/3!!
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