Sonia Bianchetti Review on the GPF

[Puchi]

I, too, don't find much similarity between Fernandez and Joubert except they both have had excellent jumps. Fernandez is much more capable of wider ranged artistic expressions. With his consistent jumping abilities, he has a bright future waiting for him.

Sonia said Javi reminds her of Brian Orser, not Brian Joubert

 

[Bluebonnet]

Sonia said Javi reminds her of Brian Orser, not Brian Joubert

You are right! Silly me!

Guess in my mind, whom am I often thinking about?

Speaking of the similarity of Orser and Javier, I don't feel any reminder either. I think Orser was a little stiff armed. Javier has a bit of every good thing.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Ms Bianchetti appreciates Chan's skating and she still does. Doesn't mean she has to think he has to win all the time. Neither do I. I may be what you consider OTT Chan fan, but can you point out if I have ever complained when he does not win? I defend his win just as I defend those who beat him.

If you don't think he has to win all the time, then give me an example of a time he won where you disagreed with that result.

Furthermore, Chan has won every competition he has entered for the past 2 seasons, the only exception being 2010 Cup of Russia...where he only lost because of a technicality, not because of the scores of the judges. So, therefore, your proclamation of "have I ever complained when he does not win" is empty rhetoric.

Ms Biachetti was a 6.0 judge so perhaps instinctly she feels Chan should not have won, but it's not accurate to say he was overscored.

It's perfectly accurate to say Chan was overscored. He received the highest PCS at the GPF, even though most everyone felt there was at least 1 competitor (Takahashi) who was clearly better than him in that regard.

 

[Spun Silver]

Sonia said Javi reminds her of Brian Orser, not Brian Joubert

Oh dear, that was my bad. I have only watched skating seriously since 2006 and my mind jumped straight to the current Brian.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

If you don't think he has to win all the time, then give me an example of a time he won where you disagreed with that result.

SC 2010. Maybe TEB 2011.

 

[skatinginbc]

Sonia Bianchetti said, "To me, he (Chan) was overmarked once again." I wonder what those other times were that she was referring to.

 

[Mathman]

I haven't searched back through all of Bianchetti's writings, but in the past she , like Janet Lynn, has loudly lamented the direction in which the CoP has taken figure skating.

The last couple of articles have been more like, well that's better, maybe there is some hope after all. I believe that Chan was one of the main catalysts for this change of heart. IIRC she has praised him in the recent past for showing that it is possible to skate a CoP=friendly program while at the same time not abandoning everything that attracts us to figure skating in the first place.

To me, saying that Patrick has been overmarked for flawed performances now and then is faint criticism, and criticism more of the judges than of Patrick.

 

[Mathman]

Here is what Bianchetti had to say about the Moscow worlds.

http://www.soniabianchetti.com/writings_wonderful_worlds.html

The men's event was the most exciting.

The gold medal was won by Patrick Chan of Canada. He really skated at his best and both the short and the free programs will remain as memorable programs in the history of our sport.

In the short program, he started off with an outstanding quadruple toe-loop/triple toe-loop combination, followed by a perfect triple Axel and a triple flip. The choreography of the program was excellent. At the end of the program it came naturally to me, an old figure skating judge, to write down my marks: 5.9 - 6.0! I am sure Patrick would have liked to see these marks on the score board.

Skated to the Phantom of the Opera, his free program was just breathtaking. His first jump was a quadruple toe-loop immediately followed, from the blue, by a fantastic quadruple toe-loop/triple toe-loop combination. He then executed five more triple jumps of the highest technical quality. His only mistake was a step-out on the triple Axel. His spins were excellent as well as the choreography of the program. But what makes him so captivating in presentation is the way he moves his body, his head, his arms, while skating on deep edges. He really flies on the ice. Every movement is wonderful; he really lives his music and makes you perceive his inner feelings. At the end of his program, I was crying. Patrick perfectly represents what I would define as the ideal male skater. Excellent in technique as well as in the artistic side of our beautiful sport, without becoming feminine. Thank you, Patrick, for the intense artistic emotion you gave me.

So in her Grand Prix write-up I think she is just saying that his performance this time around fell short of the mark and should have received lower scores.

 

[skateflower]

Nan Song should have won FP over Chan? Seriously?
As much as I complained about visible errors, I disliked boring programs even more. Chan's skating at least was very interesting, with deep edges, difficult transitions and all that. In this case, I like CoP.
Your comment made me go back to check the TEB result to see if my proposed increase of penalty on falls would have changed the outcome. Thank goodness, it won't. There was a big margin of 8.87, plenty room there. Phew!

Nice classy article.

. But their job is to mark according to the rules, with no way of controling the final outcome. . All competitors are welcome to get scores like he does, if they could. The same rules apply to all, in the open.

.

Yeah with no way of controlling final outcome except by throwing out those highly inflated pcs and +goe. It's laughable to hear Chan/CoP apologists to proclaim he's 'earned' those marks in the open. I'm waiting the day when judges decide to abandon him. Just imagine how the Chan/CoP apologists will come up with another silly theory by claiming Chan skating skills have declined substantially... LOL....

Ms Bianchetti appreciates Chan's skating and she still does. Doesn't mean she has to think he has to win all the time. .

Not sure why you randomly came up something that's completely irrelevant. The article is about Ms Bianchetti's opinion of Chan being overscored, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Mathman]

Sonia Bianchetti said, "To me, he (Chan) was overmarked once again." I wonder what those other times were that she was referring to.

Here is what Bianchetti had to say about the Grand Prix series last year. I think it is clear that what she is complaining about is the too-high scores for performances full of falls and other mistakes. In general, not just for Patrick Chan.

http://www.soniabianchetti.com/writings_fallingstars.html

The 2010 Grand Prix series is over, and I am sitting here with tears in my eyes, wondering what is happening to our sport. I can't remember a season as dreary as this one has been so far. I would define these Grand Prix events as the "falls festival"...

In all the six Grand Prix events, not one singles skater has distinguished himself or herself by putting together two strong programs. Patrick Chan fell 8 times in two competitions. But Patrick was not the only top skater to fall apart in either the short or free. Daisuke Takahashi, Brian Joubert, Adam Rippon, Jeremy Abbott, Tomas Verner, Mao Asada, Miki Ando, Carolina Kostner, Alissa Czisny, Mirai Nagasu, and Kiira Korpi, just to name a few, fell down several times as well.

Simply appalling, if we consider that all these skaters could contend for a medal either at the European or the World Championships.

The quality and the standard of the sport is going down the tubes, especially because the new judging system rewards failure. Now it is "who is the least bad". And I am afraid that it will only get worse. It looked like the competition was for how many times a skater could fall in a program, not how well a program was performed. The competition is no longer among those who skate a flawless program, but among those who fall more often and better!

In the old 6.0 system, there was a rule which said: "a jump which is taken off or landed on two feet shall not be marked". This no longer exists. Unless skating gets back to "what can I give" instead of "what can I get", the magic will not return. The skaters should be performing for the audience, not the judges! The skaters are being sickened by all these rules and requirements limiting their freedom. There is no time for self-expression and communication with an audience, and as long as the ISU persists in ignoring this, it seems very unlikely that we will get our audiences back in the near future.

Unfortunately, they keep making rules more and more forgiving of the skaters falling down. And there are no firm requirements to set the component scores, so a program can be full of errors and the component marks can still be high, if the judges want to do that. This was more than evident this year.

There must be a new rule somewhere in the ISU Regulations that states that in Program Components, a jump landed directly on the buttock deserves more credit! Otherwise, how can anyone explain marks ranging from 8 to 9 awarded by some judges in Program Components to Chan, for instance, at Skate Canada and the Cup of Russia, with three falls respectively in the Short Program and the Free Skating? Perhaps I am old-fashioned, but in my opinion, three falls just destroy the beauty and the art in any program and negatively affect the performance, the execution, the choreography as well as the interpretation, no matter how great the skater potentially may be. The same applies to Takahashi. What score will these skaters get the day they stay upright? 15? How long will it take for these top skaters to be marked appropriately? What a travesty.

 

[jettasian]

Yet, another thread created by some Chan bashers to prove that he's over-marked? Really? Do we need one more?

Exactly!:yes:
I was supposed to thank the thread starter, like always, that he/she finally found the real Sonia Bianchetti's blog. But I can't, as the thread starter's sole purpose on finding anything negative on Patrick Chan's skating was obvious and distasteful.

No kidding. I think the Mod should just create a Chan with so all those negative threads can all filtered into that thread, so those people can have their field trip. It's getting tiresome to see threads after threads basically talking about the same thing. I mean, yeah, we get it, you don't like Chan, move on already! I don't even understand why someone would invest so much time on a skater they don't like. It proves nothing but their bitterness.

 

[DianaSelene]

^
Then feel free to make a thread of bashers of Chan-bashers.

 

[jettasian]

^
Then feel free to make a thread of bashers of Chan-bashers.

I have a life outside figure skating. I don't go all out and find some articles that have negative comments about a skater I dislike and start thread here.

 

[Spun Silver]

Jettasian, this isn't some absurd research project by a Chan-hater. In case you didn't know it, all of Sonia Bianchetti's articles are posted here on GS. She's a personage in the sport (check out her history) and she writes well. People like to know and discuss what she thinks.

Personally, rereading her recent laments side by side with her rhapsodies on the GPF makes me wonder what she REALLY thinks. Is skating being destroyed or not?

 

[Bluebonnet]

SC 2010. Maybe TEB 2011.

SC 2010, yes. TEB 2011, definitely NO. Chan was superior there at TEB among those male skaters even though he was not in his best conditions.

Well, at least Chan has revived GS men's skating discussion where usually ladies' skating was on the center stage of this forum.

 

[pangtongfan]

Sonia Bianchetti said, "To me, he (Chan) was overmarked once again." I wonder what those other times were that she was referring to.

Chan has been overmarked in every competition he has been in since the 2010 Olympics. I suspect that is what she was referring to, with the possible excepts of the 2010 GPF and 2011 Worlds. Of course some of those he did deserve to win and would have even with fair marking. Others are more questionable. Either way he is regularly given highly inflated GOE and PCS which gives him his 6 fall cushion worth of mistakes over the rest in every competition he is in, and thus is guaranteed to win no matter what even when he doesnt skate well.

 

[Olympia]

I don't know enough about the ins and outs of either technique or scoring to make a judgment about this issue, but mightn't it make skating look less like a sport if a guy who falls several times still beats clean skaters? Mind you, I like Chan, so I don't have an agenda about this. I'd certainly keep on loving skating no matter what. It just seems as if the scoring system is working against the general perception of skating as a sport to casual viewers.

May I say that I'm very glad we changed the title of this thread, though. Bianchetti's observations are general and very enlightening.

 

[skatinginbc]

It is weird. A post of mine in response to #25 was mysteriously deleted and turned into part of stateflower's post #29. Who should I sue for stealing or plagiarism? Stateflower or Goldenskate moderators?

 

[dorispulaski]

In general, a person is supposed to edit their existing post, if it is the last post on the thread to add anything.

Furthermore, we have a Multiquote feature (the rectangular block with the + next to it at the far right bottom of each post. If someone wants to answer several posters, if they have hit the multipost button on each post, and then hit Reply at the end, all the posts they have checked will come up as quotes in the Reply box that pops up.

skateflower is relatively new and fired off several quotes in successive posts. Toni tried to combine them, and apparently got yours in there too.

If you PM me which is yours, I'll fix the quote on post 29 to properly attribute it to you.

 

[Mathman]

I think Sonia Bianchetti's position is quite clear. When Patrick skates well he deserves high marks. When he doesn't, he doesn't.