2014 Olympics Short Dance

[Mathman]

Is ice dance really a sport at all? Does it belong in the Olympic Games?

These are the questions that the ISU must continually confront. I think fans of both teams can agree that Virtue and Moir are better at looking into each other's eyes, and Davis and White skate faster.

 

[seniorita]

I liked Pechelat /Bourzat and Capellini/ Lanote and I dont get why they got lower than I/K.

 

[TMC]

I don't claim to know so much about ID, but after reading the enraged comments here & FB re V/M vs D/W I did some digging. I found this on Icenetwork:

"A closer look reveals that Virtue and Moir's levels Sunday night were actually on the high end of what they've received throughout the year:

Finlandia Trophy - 2, 2
Skate Canada - 3, 4
Trophée Eric Bompard - 3, 3
Grand Prix Final - 4, 4
Canadian Championships - 3, 3
Olympics - 3, 4

Coming into the Olympics, Virtue and Moir had averaged exactly a Level 3 for their first pattern and slightly better than a Level 3 for their second. The Levels 3 and 4 they were awarded Sunday seem reasonable, given their past history.

For the sake of comparison, here are the levels Meryl Davis and Charlie White have received for their Finnstep patterns this season:

U.S. International Classic - 3, 3
Skate America - 4, 4
NHK Trophy - 3, 4
Grand Prix Final - 4, 4
U.S. Championships - 4, 4
Olympics - 4, 4

Leading up to the Olympics, the technical specialists on the various panels at their competitions have consistently assigned higher levels to Davis and White's Finnstep patterns than Virtue and Moir's. It's not unreasonable to think that trend would continue here in Sochi."

What I'm wondering is are the people claiming that there's a fix or an unfair preference for D/W claiming that apart from the GPF all these levels/results were rigged??? Including their own championships??? I'm not taking sides here, I'm sincerely just wondering about this.

 

[Nan]

I'm not a fan of either team but tonight more than ever, the difference of level was crystal clear. There's no way D/W should have won. They are worlds apart from the canadians when all skate like this. At the very least, I would switch the scores. But really, I would have them in 4th..[/QUOTE


It is unbelievable how much hate Davis and White have gotten because they are in first and then to say they should have been placed in FOURTH is unreal, they skated brilliantly! They have won worlds and all other competitions the past two years but I guess to hear some people that was fixed also because V/M didn't win.

 

[Mrs. P]

LOL #1: You have met all the ice dancers in the flesh, Mrs. P, and I have not ... but in off-ice videos, Maia and Meryl do not strike me as introverted at all. Demure, yes. And maybe not quite as extroverted as their partners. But not introverted. Maia and Meryl seem so pleasantly self-confident and poised -- comfortable with answering any question, with bantering and laughing freely, etc. (Side comment: I think the chemistry btwn Davis and White comes across better in their interviews than in their programs. :think

I hope that Maia does not go so far as to model her on-ice expression after Chock's, which is too hammy for my taste. (I do not think you were suggesting that Maia should.)​

LOL #2: "I can't help but want to answer questions." One of the many reasons that we love you, Mrs. P.

I admit I'm playing armchair psychiatrist and I could be wrong, but this is my hunch. Being introverted, as my psychiatrist friends have explained to me, is NOT synonymous for being shy or lacking self-confidence. Introversion is more about where you draw your energy from. This article explains it well: http://www.carlkingdom.com/10-myths-about-introverts#.UwIpYEJdXno

I also have been reading a lot about interverts and interversion and talking to people about this topic lately -- namely as an act of cognitive dissonance, I'm a textbook extrovert. So I think that's why I'm becoming hyper aware of such things.

I've had friends who are just a social and confident as me and then I'm surprised to find out that they're actually introverted. A lot of times, their job or social situation forces them (or they desire to) express extroverted qualities for a time, but then they need time alone to process their thoughts and just get lost in their own world.

I have a feeling if Maia wasn't in skating or doing something where she's out in the public, I think she would just as well be happy alone reading a book and hanging out with their cute dogs. The same goes for Meryl.

I find at their best, their cerebral nature is what draws me to both of them, but sometimes --and more so for Maia -- it doesn't yield that on-ice persona that is appealing to judges

 

[uncchristine99]

Well, I thought the entire short dance was wonderful! So many great skates... man, has the top 10 really rounded out this year or what?! I think the top 10 are really so wonderful--most of the other disciplines, I can't watch further down than 4th-5th because the quality and polish are so, so much less than at the top but I really want to give props to dance out of all the disciplines--they are holding down all of the Olympic figure skating interest in my book.

V/M had a lights-out performance and I just don't buy the level 3 in one of the Finn sequences--V/M are just flat-out losing favor across the board and seems like the judges are ready to pounce and deduct for any small thing. Experts alike honestly do not know where the mistake in their level 3 step was!! It really does seem outrageous and I don't like I/K being so close to them either. Eek! I'm usually pretty hard on V/M (as a bigger D/W fan) but they really put no foot wrong. Johnny Weir said he hadn't seen them skate like that since Vancouver itself and I agree with him. They were on cloud 9 for the whole thing. Wonderful, wonderful skate!! The only "thing" I can speculate is that all season, they've been criticized for not building out a jaunty short dance in the flavor of the Finnstep and that their program is overly smooth and languid and not sharp enough or punctuated enough. I personally loooove their short dance but I can see that the Finnstep is a harder sell in that program. I know I'm personally way more interested in the non-Finn parts of their program so the Finnstep seems more like a reluctant chore thrown in. Even though they do it well, the program as a whole doesn't present that section very well--rather, it's kind of an odd detraction from the awesomely sexy and smooth jazzier parts that I like and enjoy a lot more.

Now on D/W, I think they have done a great job showcasing the compulsory step. I actually really abhor this version of "I Could Have Danced All Night" so in reverse of V/M, I do look forward to the compulsory step cuz that's the only time we move away from that shrill vocal piece. D/W are known for being sharp so this step really fits their oyster. I didn't think they were lights-out like V/M but they certainly made no mistakes so I don't agree with people saying they were overscored--rather, V/M were underscored. They had very strong step sequences and man, those twizzles... can't argue with those. The rotating lift at the end is one of my favorites from them and I'm always thrilled to see it.

 

[ElGrecoTaco]

I mean... the levels are what makes this a sport. If you take away the object of nailing all the levels, then this is just the Ice Capades...

Word to this.

 

[TMC]

Well, re my earlier post, now people on the ISU FB page are saying that V/M have been underscored all season on purpose so that it wouldn't look so fishy in the Olympics. This is just getting ridiculous.

I guess Skate Canada is in on it too. They must like money as much as the next judge, non?

 

[Trewyn]

I'm not going to read all of this thread, but I just wanted to give a shout-out to V/M and P/B, two very special teams that might lose their respective battle tonight (battle for gold and battle for bronze). Both teams have gorgeous short dances that I thoroughly enjoyed watching. I tend to fall asleep during ice dance (sorry), but those two dances really make me appreciate the sport as a whole.

 

[BlackPack]

I admit I'm playing armchair psychiatrist and I could be wrong, but this is my hunch. Being introverted, as my psychiatrist friends have explained to me, is NOT synonymous for being shy or lacking self-confidence. Introversion is more about where you draw your energy from. This article explains it well: http://www.carlkingdom.com/10-myths-about-introverts#.UwIpYEJdXno

I also have been reading a lot about interverts and interversion and talking to people about this topic lately -- namely as an act of cognitive dissonance, I'm a textbook extrovert. So I think that's why I'm becoming hyper aware of such things.

I've had friends who are just a social and confident as me and then I'm surprised to find out that they're actually introverted. A lot of times, their job or social situation forces them (or they desire to) express extroverted qualities for a time, but then they need time alone to process their thoughts and just get lost in their own world.

I have a feeling if Maia wasn't in skating or doing something where she's out in the public, I think she would just as well be happy alone reading a book and hanging out with their cute dogs. The same goes for Meryl.

I find at their best, their cerebral nature is what draws me to both of them, but sometimes --and more so for Maia -- it doesn't yield that on-ice persona that is appealing to judges

Yes, this is a good definition - where a person draws his/her energy from, their preferred natural habitat by default.

 

[peg]

I admit I'm playing armchair psychiatrist and I could be wrong, but this is my hunch. Being introverted, as my psychiatrist friends have explained to me, is NOT synonymous for being shy or lacking self-confidence. Introversion is more about where you draw your energy from. This article explains it well: http://www.carlkingdom.com/10-myths-about-introverts#.UwIpYEJdXno

I've had friends who are just a social and confident as me and then I'm surprised to find out that they're actually introverted. A lot of times, their job or social situation forces them (or they desire to) express extroverted qualities for a time, but then they need time alone to process their thoughts and just get lost in their own world.

I have a feeling if Maia wasn't in skating or doing something where she's out in the public, I think she would just as well be happy alone reading a book and hanging out with their cute dogs. The same goes for Meryl.

Yes, that's true. The two defining characteristics between introversion and extroversion are a) where people draw their energy from and b) how they process information. Extroverts draw energy from being around people, whereas introverts give energy when around people, and draw it more internally. So being around people is more work for them (especially being around a lot of people, or people they don't know well. Introverts prefer a deep conversation with one or two close friends to a more social group situation).

Introverts also process information more internally, by mulling things over, whereas extroverts will be more likely to talk through a problem. And introvert will only want to talk once they feel they have sorted things out.

It's also important to keep in mind that introversion and extroversion lie on a continuum, and most people can access both. Introverts can be sociable, but it takes energy from them and they'll get to a point where they need to be alone for a while. I know quite a few introverts who can be very outgoing and appear extroverted, but if they don't get some time alone, they will become very tired and cranky.

 

[Frenchie]

And your objectivity to me is…well, surprising.

Well, that was my point: You always made sure to point out how you analyzed all the Ice Dance performances with absolute objectivity, and it was objective of you to point out how B/S were the deserving N°1 in Russia, had great flow and technique... when I/K screwed up almost every time, had inferior skills, oh and the latest: Ilinykh is too fat to wear her FD costume. Objectively. :disapp:
Well, here we have a SD where there are dozens of posters here who say that B/S did not deserve to be held up like they were. The judges still held them up, and I agree with Midnightskates, as a "backup plan" if I/K make mistakes to ensure a Russian medal. Still, even the judges gave them more than 3 points less than I/K.
So, given your need to point out every flaw of I/K, while assuring everyone you're not at all subjective, I was led to believe you would comment on B/S's flaws. According to your "I/K are overrated" posts of the past, that would have meant at least one whole page of description of all B/S did wrong today. So yeah, your post about their performance today finally and definitively opened my eyes about not believing the self righteous crap that comes out of your perpetually I/K-bashing mouth.

All your attempts to put me into group of I&K fans / B&S fans, or I&K likers / I&K not likers are adorable.

My attempts to put you into any group: 0%
your attempts to put yourself into group of I/K fans: 0%
your attempts to put yourself into group of B/S fans: 100%
your attempts to put yourself into group of I/K not likers: 100%
your attempts to put yourself into group of B/S not likers: 0%
your honesty on your own objectivity while doing so: 0%.

As to B&S, the twizzles were not synchro, the rest was great.

case in point. :no:

You find Bobrova stiff but you didn’t notice Lena’s stumble? And supporting couple without feeling of the rhythm and with simple programs and put them ahead all other four teams who keep the rhythm and have difficult and dancy programs is not held up from judges or from you? Objectivity, Frenchie?

I did notice that. Just like B/S had an imperfection in the twizzles. The difference is that I/K were dazzling, charismatic and elegant in the rest of the program, and B/S were tense and -comparatively- awkward. I would have had I/K in 4th behind V/M, D/W and P/B. But I can understand how they were put slightly ahead of P/B. I would have had B/S around 8th or 9th. And I'm taking their "politicked bonus" into account, since there were several lesser ranked couples I enjoyed more.

Look, everyone has his/her favorites, and some/most of us are biased when judging competitions they're in. What I take issue with is how much you always pointed out how your bashing of I/K and glorifying of B/S was completely objective. That's all. Now, when both pairs were obviously and objectively in very clear "better" and "worse" situations, your comment proved just where your objectivity is.
I'm blaming me for falling for it in the past more than I'm blaming you for claiming it. Peace.

 

[HalfTriple]

And lo and behold...this is exactly the sort of thing I was referring to - via the Los Angeles Times:

That obtuseness winds up doing a disservice to whoever wins."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/olymp...-dance-20140217,0,3035363.story#axzz2tZGYlnl0

The ISU needs to stay ahead of this type of stuff for once.

Oh they don't. All they need is Putin, his KGB, and Russian Democracy.

 

[L_Canada]

You are seriously delusional. It is a pitty, did you forget they are Olympic and World Champs. Both teams should be celebrated not bashed like this.

speed, flow, edges
D/W are ahead of V/M in every components

V/M are also technically inferior and deficient

 

[ice coverage]

I admit I'm playing armchair psychiatrist and I could be wrong, but this is my hunch. Being introverted, as my psychiatrist friends have explained to me, is NOT synonymous for being shy or lacking self-confidence. Introversion is more about where you draw your energy from. This article explains it well: http://www.carlkingdom.com/10-myths-about-introverts#.UwIpYEJdXno

I also have been reading a lot about interverts and interversion and talking to people about this topic lately -- namely as an act of cognitive dissonance, I'm a textbook extrovert. So I think that's why I'm becoming hyper aware of such things.

I've had friends who are just a social and confident as me and then I'm surprised to find out that they're actually introverted. A lot of times, their job or social situation forces them (or they desire to) express extroverted qualities for a time, but then they need time alone to process their thoughts and just get lost in their own world.

I have a feeling if Maia wasn't in skating or doing something where she's out in the public, I think she would just as well be happy alone reading a book and hanging out with their cute dogs. The same goes for Meryl.

I find at their best, their cerebral nature is what draws me to both of them, but sometimes --and more so for Maia -- it doesn't yield that on-ice persona that is appealing to judges

Yes, this is a good definition - where a person draws his/her energy from, their preferred natural habitat by default.

Yes, that's true. The two defining characteristics between introversion and extroversion are a) where people draw their energy from and b) how they process information. Extroverts draw energy from being around people, whereas introverts give energy when around people, and draw it more internally. So being around people is more work for them (especially being around a lot of people, or people they don't know well. Introverts prefer a deep conversation with one or two close friends to a more social group situation).

Introverts also process information more internally, by mulling things over, whereas extroverts will be more likely to talk through a problem. And introvert will only want to talk once they feel they have sorted things out.

It's also important to keep in mind that introversion and extroversion lie on a continuum, and most people can access both. Introverts can be sociable, but it takes energy from them and they'll get to a point where they need to be alone for a while. I know quite a few introverts who can be very outgoing and appear extroverted, but if they don't get some time alone, they will become very tired and cranky.

Thanks to all for the input re introverts. I have a few thoughts bouncing around in my head, and will start by posting this one:

As I watch Jimmy Fallon hosting The Tonight Show for the first time, it is the perfect time to mention that Johnny Carson is a classic example of an introvert who was a very successful "performer" in front of a live studio audience (as well as viewers at home).
I have personal knowledge of a similar example -- someone I shall call "X," who appeared on live national television on a daily basis for decades and who was known for being extremely warm and approachable with the studio audience and seeming so to viewers at home. X was very sociable and great at giving energy to those around her/him, but also prized her/his solitude -- with a good book and/or her/his beloved dog. Although her/his face was highly recognizable to the general public, X was completely comfortable going to a movie, concert, or sporting event alone.

 

[peg]

It may sound counter-intuitive, but a lot of actors are actually introverts. Or ambiverts: people who have characteristics of both and can gain some energy from being around others, but only to a point. And then they need to recharge alone.

ETA: If you google Myers-Briggs or Kiersey temperament test, you can find some online tests that include an introversion/extroversion dimension. Sometimes it's fun to play

 

[ice coverage]

It may sound counter-intuitive, but a lot of actors are actually introverts. Or ambiverts: people who have characteristics of both and can gain some energy from being around others, but only to a point. And then they need to recharge alone.

ETA: If you google Myers-Briggs or Kiersey temperament test, you can find some online tests that include an introversion/extroversion dimension. Sometimes it's fun to play

Yes, yes, this phenomenon is exactly why I mentioned Carson and the other example. I know that they are not aberrations.

So ... I don't know whether I think it matters -- in terms of their on-ice performance -- that Maia and Meryl are introverts.

My subjective opinion is that I do not find them less expressive on the ice than their extroverted partners.

And if an introvert by definition draws upon inner energy to give to people around them, I don't see how it is less advantageous to send energy outward vs. drawing it inward as an extrovert would. :think:

 

[peg]

I think it just sometimes takes introverts a little longer to become comfortable projecting outwards. And often they project a little less strongly, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. But I think that different types of programs/music/performance may work better for them. Not a weakness. Just a difference, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[sisinka]

when I/K screwed up almost every time, had inferior skills, oh and the latest: Ilinykh is too fat to wear her FD costume. Objectively.

I never ever wrote anything like being fat. Like Tessa is described about good or bad costuming, I had the same note about Lena, but I lately put down - in moment when somebody started to take it like a weight issue.

 

[Frenchie]

when I/K screwed up almost every time, had inferior skills, oh and the latest: Ilinykh is too fat to wear her FD costume. Objectively.

I never ever wrote anything like being fat. Like Tessa is described about good or bad costuming, I had the same note about Lena, but I lately put down - in moment when somebody started to take it like a weight issue.

Yeah. You never said that. Oh, wait...

It only starts with tutu…but this year it is more long to hide Lena’s thighs and backside (unfortunately you really need to be too slim to wear such dress, probably only Cappellini and Pechalat could wear tutu without any fear)…