How important are wins to popularity of US skating?

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Every Olympic cycle, there's usually one or two US skaters who shines. Lysacek's win made him hugely popular and now Davis and White are the stars of US skating moreso than any US singles skaters, having been the only US individual medal and a gold at that. Now they are stars on Dancing with the Stars and household names with the wins to back it up.

How integral are these skaters' successes to the popularity of US skating?

And in other countries too? In Canada, do World medals by W/P and D/R legitimately spur on more interest in the sport (in individual disciplines, even).

 

[hyperinflation]

Lysacek's win made him hugely popular

ehhhhh that's very debatable. maybe in the immediate few months following his win, but definitely not since. winning is important but you gotta have a little savvy marketing and a little extra star quality to back it up. which evan does not have, even in spite of his ogm, but which someone like say, johnny weir, definitely has. we'll see what happens with davis/white, but i predict they go the way of lysacek just because the US really only cares about its ladies single skaters. marketing two people is a million times harder than marketing one

And in other countries too? In Canada, do World medals by W/P and D/R legitimately spur on more interest in the sport (in individual disciplines, even).

lol no

 

[moviechick]

Yeah, Lysacek is definitely not super popular. Male skaters here are not going to do that well anyways, but Lysacek really didn't have an interesting enough personality to be a national celebrity and not manly enough to appeal to the straight dude sports fans. In terms of winter olympics, the male snowboarders and skiers are still more marketable to sports fans, while someone like Johnny Weir is really just bypassing that and going straight for the entertainment industry (which is far more friendly to figure skating).

Davis & White are very very dull personalities. Which is fine for Dancing with the Stars, but not for real stardom.

That's really the problem with US skaters - they're coached to be so vanilla/uncontroversial. Even at Sochi, the biggest FS phenom in the US media was Julia L. who is not even American yet there's something called star quality that crosses national borders.

 

[Amei]

Every Olympic cycle, there's usually one or two US skaters who shines. Lysacek's win made him hugely popular and now Davis and White are the stars of US skating moreso than any US singles skaters, having been the only US individual medal and a gold at that. Now they are stars on Dancing with the Stars and household names with the wins to back it up.

I believe it was a talk show host - Joel McHale (The Soup), that made the best comment about Dancing with the Stars, that it was a bunch of C list celebrities with professional dancers and it became a hit. Being on Dancing with the Stars doesn't necessarily mean they are big-time stars, most of the people that go on that show are generally: irrelevant actors that haven't had a hit TV show/movie in awhile, reality TV stars or athletes trying (IMO) to increase their marketability for endorsement deals.

How integral are these skaters' successes to the popularity of US skating?

I think it's important for US skaters to be successful in order for the sport to be popular in the US.

 

[pangtongfan]

Lysacek was only briefly moderately popular following his Olympic win. Even then he was no A-list celebrity in the general social world in America like Kwan or even B-list like Boitano. These days he is almost forgotten.

Davis & White will carry on a stardom streak of sorts stronger and longer than Evan, and be more remembered but they too wont be a superstar for many years to come to the general U.S public.

I think the only way for popularity to really shoot up in U.S skating; if that is even remotedly possible with a ridiculous scoring system that the public cant relate to, years of huge judging controversies involving Chan and now the Russians at the Sochi Olympics, and the bottoming out effect after the Kerrigan-Harding baby boom, oversaturation of pro skating, and the many idiotic decisions of Ottavio Fraudquanta; is a U.S ladies champion to emerge. Usually a Sasha Cohen, Debi Thomas, or Kristi Yamaguchi level star would be enough, but skating is so deep in the U.S at this point it would probably take a Michelle Kwan level star to emerge to revive it.

U.S doesnt care that much about pairs. They might be getting more interested in dance, and Davis & White the worlds premier dance team bringing dancing to the floor for the U.S on dancing with the Stars might help a bit more. Mens they would only become super interested if it were a skater for the ages type like Boitano or Hamilton, which was all true respect Evan is not. Ladies is still the beacon that they are waiting for.

 

[moviechick]

More like D-list. An actual star has way better things to do than be on Dancing with the Stars.

 

[pangtongfan]

BTW Johnny Weir is FAR more popular in the U.S and worldwide than Evan. It isnt even close. The 6 months post Olympics are probably the only time Evan could even rival Johnny in that area.

I would say that despite Evan being a far better skater, but in fact I dont think that is even the case. He is the far more accomplished skater, but in many ways Johnny is in fact the better skater, and certainly the more gifted, talented, and one you would rather watch a tape of again than Evan. Evan was a truly great competitor, a solid all around type skater, and a mammoth (and I mean MAMMOTH) overachiever, who had a real right place/right time series of events happen for him. I will leave it at that.

 

[hyperinflation]

BTW Johnny Weir is FAR more popular in the U.S and worldwide than Evan. It isnt even close. The 6 months post Olympics are probably the only time Evan could even rival Johnny in that area.

I would say that despite Evan being a far better skater, but in fact I dont think that is even the case. He is the far more accomplished skater, but in many ways Johnny is in fact the better skater, and certainly the more gifted, talented, and one you would rather watch a tape of again than Evan. Evan was a truly great competitor, a solid all around type skater, and a mammoth (and I mean MAMMOTH) overachiever, who had a real right place/right time series of events happen for him. I will leave it at that.

that's because johnny has an identity as a skater

evan's identity is 90% his terrible tan

 

[moviechick]

Weir has the right mindset about how to be capitalize on being a male figure skater in the US. The fact is Americans stereotype male figure skating as gay and Evan's strategy of trying to be macho gets him nowhere (pushing the extreme sport angle), which people don't buy. Weir just embraces the stereotype and has done very well for himself. The only male figure skater recently who is respected by the macho straight sport fans is Plushenko who is a pure jumper and doesn't really give a crap about artistry, so it's not really worth going for that crowd.

 

[pangtongfan]

that's because johnny has an identity as a skater

evan's identity is 90% his terrible tan

Johnny has an identity as a skater and as a person. He is crazy, but that is what puts him in the news. He is also charming and good hearted, despite his quirky personality. In short you definitely see him once and want to see him again, whether it be skating or more likely these days doing something else. Evan you really dont have much interest in seeing again, be it skating or doing anything else. There isnt anything intriguing or captivating about him, either on or off the ice. He is an ok elevator background, that is it.

It is too bad Weir or Abbott was not the one to win the Olympics instead. Especialy Weir. That would have been a jolt for skating popularity in the U.S. Or had Cohen's comeback gone better and she won the Vancouver Olympic gold, which she might have without her achilles tendon injury which gave her a late start to the year. That is the kind of thing skating needed to get back a bit more in the mainstream in the U.S. Olympic gold for Evan or even Davis & White isnt really enough at this point.

 

[pangtongfan]

Weir has the right mindset about how to be capitalize on being male figure skater in the US. The fact is Americans stereotype male figure skating as gay and Evan's strategy of trying to be macho gets him nowhere (pushing the extreme sport angle), which people don't buy. Weir just embraces the stereotype and has done very well for himself. The only male figure skater recently who is respected by the macho straight sport fans is Plushenko, so it's not really worth going for that crowd.

How can you push the extreme sports and machoman angle when anyone who has ever heard of you only knows you as the guy who won the Olympics without a quad, lol! The post Vancouver controversy would have made that angle impossible to play for Evan.

 

[moviechick]

How can you push the extreme sports and machoman angle when anyone who has ever heard of you only knows you as the guy who won the Olympics without a quad, lol! The post Vancouver controversy would have made that angle impossible to play for Evan.

That's why it was a dumb strategy though. And he followed up his OGM with Dancing with the Stars, which did not do much for his manly persona either.

I remember a recent-ish episode of Big Bang Theory where figure skating was brought up and the skater who still gets mentioned after all these years is Brian Boitano who won his OGM 20 years ago.

 

[kresslia]

In Canada, do World medals by W/P and D/R legitimately spur on more interest in the sport (in individual disciplines, even).

I think success is very important to gain interest in the sport. I can only speak for Canada. PChan and V/M have been critical to the popularity of the men's competition and ice dance in Canada. Do note though that they dominated in a way W/P and D/R haven't, however.

A couple of examples of the increased popularity of mens/ice dance in Canada:
https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/e...gs-report-star-power-draws-big-232432659.html
^ Grand prix. The men's competition drew in 337,000 viewers compared to 237,000 viewers for the women's. Why? "The star attraction there was Canada's Patrick Chan, who is a big player in reviving interest in a sport that fell from grace after a series of judging scandals."

There's also this for ice dance: "About 22.75 million Canadians tuned in at some point on the second day of the Sochi Olympics, the CBC says, with a peak of 4.8 million during Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir's free dance performance in the team figure skating event" (http://www.montrealgazette.com/mobi...down+CBCs+Olympic+coverage/9495856/story.html)

If the skaters themselves want to maintain their popularity, however, they need to be likeable and personable.

 

[hyperinflation]

If the skaters themselves want to maintain their popularity, however, they need to be likeable and personable.

or supremely entertaining like plushy

when it comes to figure skating in the general public consciousness, world championships still don't mean sh!t

if you want to become a star, you need an OGM or you need to be marketed as a frontrunner in the leadup to the games. which is why the excessive pushing for gracie gold before sochi was baffling to me - that girl wasn't getting on that podium unless everyone else fell down and DIED. but she's also an example that a very marketable package doesn't mean a whole lot unless you have the success to back it up

 

[pangtongfan]

When it comes to Canadian skaters, Weaver & Poje and Duhamel & Radford are wonderful people so will probably draw even more popularity to the sport in Canda than people that come across as jerks like Scott Moir and Patrick Chan, IF they are able to attain the results needed to do this. That and the controversy over Chan's wins, even to Canadians, is why those individuals while they have sparked some interest, still have not drawn the level of popularity to Canadian skating as Kurt Browning, Elvis Stojko, Bourne and Kraatz, Brasseur and Eisler, Wilson and McCall, Underhill and Martini, Josee Chouinard, Brian Orser, Elizabeth Manley, and our many other past greats did. The problem is D&R and W&P would have to win major titles and semi dominate to really do that, and not just the odd medal, and I am not sure if either are able to do that. Duhamel & Radford definitely dont, I would be a bit surprised if they even win a single world title. Weaver & Poje I guess could given the dance field moving forward, but it would be difficult.

 

[moviechick]

Being likable/down to earth is very important for women to be really successful in media. You have to play up the America's Sweetheart angle.

But the public likes men who have big personalities or have ***-hole tendencies.

 

[fleeting]

or supremely entertaining like plushy

when it comes to figure skating in the general public consciousness, world championships still don't mean sh!t

if you want to become a star, you need an OGM or you need to be marketed as a frontrunner in the leadup to the games. which is why the excessive pushing for gracie gold before sochi was baffling to me - that girl wasn't getting on that podium unless everyone else fell down and DIED. but she's also an example that a very marketable package doesn't mean a whole lot unless you have the success to back it up

tbh I just think they only pushed Gold because then they could use the 'Gold for gold!' pun.

That and that the average person didn't know Kim Yuna was still alive after Vancouver. And everyone though Yulia came out of nowhere, but her performance in the Team event was a long time coming. The US just didn't have much background in knowing who was going to win and blindly supported the top US candidate, who happened to be Gracie.

 

[pangtongfan]

Being likable/down to earth is very important for women to be really successful in media. You have to play up the America's Sweetheart angle.

But the public likes men who have big personalities or have ***-hole tendencies.

The American public loves that. Moir and Chan if they were Americans would be exceptionally popular (as opposed to just very popular like they are in Canada). Canadians arent as attracted to that kind of personality and drama though.

 

[hyperinflation]

When it comes to Canadian skaters, Weaver & Poje and Duhamel & Radford are wonderful people so will probably draw even more popularity to the sport in Canda than people that come across as jerks like Scott Moir and Patrick Chan, IF they are able to attain the results needed to do this. That and the controversy over Chan's wins, even to Canadians, is why those individuals while they have sparked some interest, still have not drawn the level of popularity to Canadian skating as Kurt Browning, Elvis Stojko, Bourne and Kraatz, Brasseur and Eisler, Wilson and McCall, Underhill and Martini, Josee Chouinard, Brian Orser, Elizabeth Manley, and our many other past greats did. The problem is D&R and W&P would have to win major titles and semi dominate to really do that, and not just the odd medal, and I am not sure if either are able to do that. Duhamel & Radford definitely dont, I would be a bit surprised if they even win a single world title. Weaver & Poje I guess could given the dance field moving forward, but it would be difficult.

on the d/r and w/p point, it's way too early to predict what's going to happen seeing as they medaled at a post-olympic worlds with a considerably weaker field, but unless they medal in pyeongchang, they won't do sh!t for figure skating's popularity in canada. but that's not exclusive to canada - figure skating is four year sport everywhere.

speaking as a canadian, people generally like scott and patrick. and i like them too but admittedly, we don't have great taste seeing as sale and pelletier, the biggest douchecanoes in skating, were 'canada's sweethearts' (BARF) for a longass time

 

[moviechick]

The American public loves that. Moir and Chan if they were Americans would be exceptionally popular (as opposed to just very popular like they are in Canada). Canadians arent as attracted to that kind of personality and drama though.

Moir, possibly cause they could push the heartthrob/ladies man angle and the V/M shipping. Chan, definitely not cause he's like a dorky awkward kid in addition to being not very likable. We like our ***-holes in the vein of Matthew McConaughey.