- Joined
- Aug 4, 2003
MidnightNess said:
Lucy25 said:Yes, please. There's too much in the gallery to look through to find the picture you are talking about.
Or these? If it's a straight leg, is it still a Biellmann? And his arms aren't reaching back over his head.
http://www.shawnsawyer.com/images/05nats/normal_IMG_5990.jpg
http://www.shawnsawyer.com/images/04COR/l1279940.jpg
In these pics ol' boy looks like he's in lots of pain. All straining hard! But it's cool that he's so flexible. Has Sasha ever tried doing those specific positions?
Pau-goodle76 said:Those pics show Shawn doing a Russian Split as a spiral (or spin). The fanny is pushed aside. A real camel spin has the fanny in the back with free leg knee and free toe turned out.Lucy25 said:Yes, please. There's too much in the gallery to look through to find the picture you are talking about.
Or these? If it's a straight leg, is it still a Biellmann? And his arms aren't reaching back over his head.
http://www.shawnsawyer.com/images/05nats/normal_IMG_5990.jpg
http://www.shawnsawyer.com/images/04COR/l1279940.jpg
In these pics ol' boy looks like he's in lots of pain. All straining hard! But it's cool that he's so flexible. Has Sasha ever tried doing those specific positions?
Anyway balance and edges mean the difficulty. Flexibility is not a skating move.
Joe
Whatever.....antmanb said:Its the ISU that have made it a standard element not the kids performing them. If the Bielmann position hadn't been expressly stated as a difficult variation it wouldn't be as popular with the younger kids.
I'm not sure I understand you. A flying forward sitspin? I don't think I've ever seen that. Who does it?If the ISU re-wrote the code to (IMO) correctly recategorise some things to put them in their rightful place in terms of difficulty eg. a proper flying forward sitspin (for anti clockwise air spiner: LFO take off with a full one and a half turns the air, achieving the sit position at the peak of the jump, reaching down to land on the LBI edge spining in the sit position within one rev of landing) should be worth much more than a flying camel.
I Totally Agree!! and while they are at it, take a look at their acceptance of the Flutz which is a Flip. If they did have the Tech Asst call out flip, you will find more skaters either leaving the lutz out or working on it properly. I prefer to call it the Tara Jump because she said the judges do not pay attention to it. She was right.The powers that be have it in their power to properly tweak the system to reward certain things...if they've done it with the Bielmann then they should do us a favour and recategorise it to a lower difficulty once every man and his dog have included it in a program. Ant
But will the judges properly rate the ugly spin? I agree though Denise's should be bench mark. I don't know of anyone who can do it that well, though and certainly no one will do it better.chuckm said:I think the use of ugly Biellmanns would taper off if the judges properly rated the GOE. Use DENISE's position as the criteria for a +3, and lower the grade accordingly for each nonstandard feature (i.e., one hand on the blade, bent raised leg, time to get into position, etc.).
Lucy25 said:.
Excidra - I agree with most of what you wrote, with the exception of Sasha's spiral being better than Michelle's in terms of beauty. Sasha gets her leg a bit higher, but that's it.
Excidra2001 said:I really do not understand some people sometimes. If Denis Biellmann is the standard when it comes to the biellman, does that make everyone else who attempts it or is doing it less "worthy"? The fact that Sasha has a better spiral, in terms of extension and beauty, then Kwan, does not make Kwan's less worthy.
Joesitz said:I'm not sure I understand you. A flying forward sitspin? I don't think I've ever seen that. Who does it?
A LFO take off with a full one and a half turns in the air to begin with is an axel. The normal landing would be a bo edge and hence, a back outside sit spin. To land it on the take off foot for a bi edge wold be difficult but again, I've never seen this. I agree this should be worth much more than an ordinary flying camel.
Excidra2001 said:I guess we will have to disagree with this one. The way I see it, Sasha does not need the climax of the music to show how beautiful her spiral is. With Michelle, it seems like she needs the build up of the music to show the beauty of her spiral. Its like, here comes the boom and the bang of the music and then Kwan goes for the spiral. Do you understand what i'm trying to say?
euterpe said:Sasha's spiral has great amplitude, but her edge is shallow, and when she changes the edge, she can't glide very far because the edge isn't as deep as it needs to be.
Kwan's spiral doesn't have the amplitude of Sasha's, but her edges are deeper and more secure; after the change of edge, she glides just as far on the second edge as she did on the first.
Excidra2001 said:I really do not understand some people sometimes. If Denis Biellmann is the standard when it comes to the biellman, does that make everyone else who attempts it or is doing it less "worthy"? The fact that Sasha has a better spiral, in terms of extension and beauty, then Kwan, does not make Kwan's less worthy.
I think people are forgetting that biellmann is very difficult, specially the biellman spiral, thats why its hard for me to believe when I hear young kids are doing it with so much ease and control. Irina is been doing the biellmann, only god knows how many years, it took her a while to actually perfect it and get it centered right, although she does tend to travel sometimes.
Its been a signature move for her, whether some people hate it or not, every where she goes, people want to see her biellmann.Denis Biellmann(although she was not the first to do the Biellmann) does a breath taking biellmann, its Irina who took the move, made it her own, and put it on the map.
As a competitor she's already at a disadvantage in terms of her illness, a smart competitor that she is, she'll always find ways to stay ahead of her competition. If that means "pimpin the biellmann" so be it.