Where is the anti-war movement?

I have often wondered what is happening with the college/university crowd and why the baby boomers kids are not really politically as active as their parents were..any theories?

No draft and the all-volunteer army for one. If the college age crowd suddenly had to face being drafted and being shipped off to Iraq, I'm sure we'd be seeing some good old fashioned college sit-ins:yes:

One answer - people don't think it affects them. In the Vietnam days, all young people knew that they or their friends could be drafted. Now that we have no draft, this is not so. Furthermore, having all-volunteer army gives many an illusion that we have this mass of people always at the ready for more and more sacrifices. It's one thing to say you support the president in anything he does, and totally different thing to do the same thing if your life is on the line.

What's even more troubling, several studies show that a huge percentage of high schoolers think the first ammendment goes too far, that press should get government approval before publishing stories, and even that there should be legal penalties for anti-American speech. Now that really scrares me!

Edited to add: I posted before seeing BronxGirl's post, but hey - great minds think alike!

I'm politically active in my community... I'm also in the minority at the college here (which we do have anti-war anti-bush anti-republican anti-religion anti-everything and anything protests all the time) I feel many that do protest now are not really interested in what they're talking about, they're just doing the "college thing"

I don't protest because I agree with what our president/country is doing. I may not like all of the actions we've had to take, but I am not about to protest something I believe in.

I don't believe, however, that that is why most of my generation is lazy

they're too busy playing their Xbox's to give a crap one way or the other.:scowl:

Ptichka said:

One answer - people don't think it affects them. In the Vietnam days, all young people knew that they or their friends could be drafted. Now that we have no draft, this is not so. Furthermore, having all-volunteer army gives many an illusion that we have this mass of people always at the ready for more and more sacrifices. It's one thing to say you support the president in anything he does, and totally different thing to do the same thing if your life is on the line.

What's even more troubling, several studies show that a huge percentage of high schoolers think the first ammendment goes too far, that press should get government approval before publishing stories, and even that there should be legal penalties for anti-American speech. Now that really scrares me!

Edited to add: I posted before seeing BronxGirl's post, but hey - great minds think alike!

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great post- ptichka. I'm scared, too. My neice says she'll go to Jamaica if they reinstate the draft. Otherwise, her mind is on $ and material wealth. I am amazed by the study, not really surpeised but bothered by the apathy I see with few exceptions. I have a second cousin OTOH who majored in poli sci and is very involved. The difference is the parents' influence as in most things I guess.

Bijoux said:

I have often wondered what is happening with the college/university crowd and why the baby boomers kids are not really politically as active as their parents were..any theories?

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Lack of access to Quaaludes?

bad girl, piel

Toni, I do respect your position, though I disagree with it. Also, it's one thing to support the war because you think it was/is warranted; a totally different thing to do so because you think that the American thing is to support the President whatever he decides. Because it is not.

Alive and well in Seattle!! This protest drew hundreds of high school students downtown today.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002599929_webprotest02.html

I'm glad people are publicly voicing their opinions somewhere. My University campus (University of Tennessee at Chattanooga) didn't have much to offer in the way of any unified opposition towards the war in Iraq. There were small demonstrations, but this campus is not one known for any type of large scale student participation. It saddens me. You can't get anyone involved in anything here. The only large demonstrations that attract attention on this campus consist of religious zealouts condeming everyone to hell on a megaphone. And, IMHO, hateful megaphone banter doesn't in anyway equal God's love.

BTW, I'm not a huge fan of protests generally, but they do represent freedom of speech and I think it is sad when no one really cares enough to take a bold stand. Many people (not all) of my generation seem more content to b@#ch about major issues over coffee rather than doing something constructive about it (I've tried to be more careful about this myself....if I am going to complain about something, I sure as hell should be willing to get up and do something about it).

I'm a baby boomer's child, but my parents are conservatives. Not everyone who was in college in the 60's-70's, were busy doing sit-ins, picketing and so on.

I'm a very political person, but I'm not anti-war when it comes to the one in Iraq. From what I do know about the Vietnam war, I think it was wrong. All wars aren't wrong, and not all wars are right. So I don't know how someone can say they are completely against any war. Taking out Hitler and Mussolini was necessary, no doubt about it. We should have gotten involved in doing that ALOT earlier than we did. If we had, alot more innocent people would have survived their cruelty.

Well, I was raised by parents who were in one case too old for the Vietnam stuff (and busy designing ICBMs in the 1960s anyway) or had more important things to do in college, like worry about getting through dental school as one of two women in a class of 90 people. So I suppose I grew up viewing the boomers who were out being protestors as either spoilt brats with more time than sense (which is pretty much the way of all far-leftist revolutionaries--it's always the middle-class intellectuals who have time to sit around formenting rebellion) or in some cases genuine revolutionary nut-jobs. (Then I took a history seminar on Vietnam at MY university and realized they just really didn't understand the situation very well, either.)

That university wasn't much for protests, either. We had a teeny cadre of people who sometimes protested something, like the time Pat Buchanen came to give a lecture. I think we had more ANTI-protestors than protestors. (I say 'think' because I didn't go to the speech. Suffice to say it was a well-manered protest on both sides. We'd implode if someone violated our southern gentility.) Not to mention when you have serious academics, like we did, or were a military academy like our immediate next-door neighbor, you generally blow off steam by partying (or having a nervous breakdown) rather than getting worked up over a cause.

Where I went to grad school, there were more student types who tried--but the truth is, it's DC. The 1960s are over. Every other week there's some crackpot group marching on the Mall for SOMETHING. Locals tend to just ignore them unless they're big enough to interfere with traffic or have a good lobby with the TV people.

The 'blogosphere', that's where the future of political firebranding is. You can still plop down in front of the computer, but you can rant and rail to all the OTHER people plopped in front of THEIR computers.

Honestly? I just don't get that upset about anything. Or I do, but I still can't be arsed to change my routine for it. (Of course I can't be arsed to skip skating practice for a hacking chest cough or extra brownie points at culinary school working extra shifts. I may have a slight obsessive tendency going...) Also, what no one at school gets about me is I'm a political animal but it's about the dogfighting. War? Whatever. The Dems pulling their closed-session stunt yesterday and the wanking from Frist AND Reid afterwards? Priceless.

I dont think that the reason you dont see the protests on college campuses is because our generation is lazy, but rather that the world is a completely different place than it was in the 60's. Its a different war, different political climate, no draft... I also think that the media has changed so much that young people are either uninformed on issues because of fragmentation of the media, or they are not getting their info from reputable media outlets. The internet and cable news have really thrown our society into a tizzy, and it will take years before we balance out and know how to deal with the availability of messages 24/7 both online and on tv.

In one of my art history courses several years ago we looked at a bunch of slides from the 60s and 70s of the quads and malls on campus, they were large wide open spaces that allowed for the masses to assemble. After the protesting ebbed major changes were made to break up the space. Huge planters were installed around the oak trees, they are a lovely addition and give students a place to sit between classes and eat a snack or talk with friends... they also prevent a mob marching to the tower.

I think that messages of tolerance and unity are also pretty widespread on campuses, so its not like activism has fallen completely by the way side. UT was suuuuuuuuuuch a diverse place and after the september 11th attacks everyone was hyper aware and as pc as possible to not alienate mulsim populations. Other areas of our country did not have this reaction and were hatefull and disrespectfull to anyone who was or appeared to be muslim.

I dont think its a bad thing that people in their early 20s arent completely resolute in their political beliefs... I know that I am changing and maturing at light speed, and I hardly identify with the person I was when i started college 5 years ago. They say everything is good in moderation, perhaps students of this generation prefer a moderate position rather than one that is ardently apposed to the majority?

Not suggesting that my answers are the correct ones... just some thoughts going through my mind at the moment.

Ptichka said:

Toni, I do respect your position, though I disagree with it. Also, it's one thing to support the war because you think it was/is warranted; a totally different thing to do so because you think that the American thing is to support the President whatever he decides. Because it is not.

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I didn't support the last President, so no worries about me just following the American feel, I tend to think on how the government will help ME/Alaska more than anything... we're seperate but equal parts of the union on paper... but Alaska is the bastard child of the US by all parties....

I don't think my generation follows the "American Way" more than they do the "Hollywood talking heads"... you wouldn't believe how many kids I grew up with feel "Diddy" (he dropped the P recently, from what I hear) should run for President because he's "cool" and "connects with the people"...

The most important place to voice your opinion is at the ballot box, and the facts show that our generation just doesn't vote.

Personally, I've participated in several pro-Israel marches. That was in the early days of the second Intifada, when American policy and especially the media were starkly anti-Israel. I felt it was important to show how many voters support that country.

Also, I was very much against the Kosovo war (I share Colin Powel's view on it, not that of most liberals). There was absolutely no organized anit-war movement, so I just wrote to my senators and representatives.

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Toni, somehow a lot of people who support Bush "because we need to support the Pres" are the same people who threw mud at Clinton. This is not in any way an attack against you personally - I do believe that you support Bush's policies just because you agree with them.

Ptichka said:

Personally, I've participated in several pro-Israel marches. That was in the early days of the second Intifada, when American policy and especially the media were starkly anti-Israel. I felt it was important to show how many voters support that country.

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Whoo! You go girl!

I graduated from college in the 70's and am proud to say that I have spent more than a few hours protesting...or supporting depending on how you look at it. Back then it was for the ERA and abortion rights. Later against unionization for nurses and hospital workers. I have mellowed some on the later. Unfortunately for abortion rights it looks like the we are going to have to start all over...and my signs are ready to go! I think that some of today's young women don't appreciate the work that was done for them to have the rights they have today.

Regarding BB's being more political than their chidren, part of protesting to some was becuse they were going against their parents, the establishment. For the children of BB's to protest would PLEASE their parents ...no fun there.

I wouldn't equate lack of protests with lack of interest. There has been a trend towards more community service and volunteerism. Some participate in projects because of true interest and others due to educational requirements.

My co-worker's son is required to perform x number of hours of community service as part of his college graduation requirements. He participated in a Habitat for Humanity project. He enjoyed the experience and has continued to volunteer although his requirement is complete.

Instead of protesting, these kids are trying to fix things in whatever way they can. In the work place, you can't just complain - you have to offer solutions, participate and follow through.

Protests get a lot of attention, but they are not always constructive. I'm sure that some of the protesters continue the efforts through other means, but a large majority simply go home at the end of the day.

heyang said:

I wouldn't equate lack of protests with lack of interest. There has been a trend towards more community service and volunteerism. Some participate in projects because of true interest and others due to educational requirements.

Instead of protesting, these kids are trying to fix things in whatever way they can. In the work place, you can't just complain - you have to offer solutions, participate and follow through.

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I totally agree! I have been a very active volunteer my whole life. I was involved in service organizations in high school, college and I am now a member of the junior league. I also make monetary contributions whenever I can. My employer allows you to donate to the united way directly from your paycheck (even if its just a few dollas each time).

I'm also an informed voter, as are 99% of my peers. If there was an issue i felt that i needed to take to the streets with buttons and banners i would. But so far I havent been presented with an cause that pushes me to do so. I would see myself persuing politics before being an activist.

where is the anti-war movement? - right HERE

Before he went to Iraq last year, my son made me promise I wouldn't be arrested while he was overseas. Well, I kept that promise but I went right on showing up for anti-war rallies and worked my tail off getting out the vote for MoveOn. I also was involved in the election recounts and followup. In Ohio, we have 4 election reform amendment issues on the Nov. ballot.

As for my son, he doesn't realize that I never got arrested in the 60s or 70s, even though I DO have an FBI file. Hey, anyone who was in college near Kent State in 1970 probably has one. I'm certain I DO because I worked for the government in the 70s. I found the Kent State anti-war protesters scary leading up to the shooting. I also remember the National Guard and a trucking strike that scared me then too. I never was one for burning down ROTC buildings or sit-ins taking over schools. Guess that is why I was happy to go to a small college near Kent that was very liberal. After the KSU shootings, we had a break right before the Nov. elections so students could be involved in political process without hurting their academic careers. I've been involved off and on since.

Just because my son went to war in Iraq, doesn't mean Mom approves of the war. And just because he was a "volunteer," doesn't mean even he approves. Since he came back, he has admitted that he doesn't see much sense in our continued presence there. He says the press knows nothing about what is really happening there, because they rarely venture out into the countryside or even the cities, beyond the "safety" of headquarters.

Besides, how voluntarily did he go? His enlistment was supposed to end last November (2004) and the administration unilaterally extended his commitment to Nov 2006. Giving him sargeant stripes doesn't make up for putting his education and career and life on hold for 2 out of the past 3 years. He went because he had no real choice; because he was trained to do a particular job in the Army Reserves and he did it.

There may be no "draft" but there sure is a backdoor draft and lots of people have been affected. The National Guard and the Reserves were never meant to be used the way they have been the past few years. (and that includes the Clinton administration too) They were meant to be an armed force that could be activated in time of need. Somehow, with all the cutting we've done in the armed forces over the last decades means we need to call up these weekend warriors to fill in for active duty forces far too often.

Okay, end of rant....