Dubruil/Lauzon Announcment

mylastduchess · Mar 16, 2006

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/FigureSkating/2006/03/15/1490089-cp.html

-my guess is weather they will announce retiring or getting married! hopefuly not withdrawing from Worlds!

attyfan · Mar 16, 2006

They are not withdrawing, Thank G-d!! I hope that they win.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060316.SKATING16/TPStory/Sports

demarinis5 · Mar 16, 2006

I really like this team. If the fall had not happened in Torino I am
sure they would have won gold or silver. IMO their programs are
more technically difficult then T/B. Hopefully her hip injury will not
hinder them at Worlds. They have the goods to take the gold.

chuckm · Mar 17, 2006

I do not think D/L would have won gold or silver at Torino.
The numbers say not. Here's why:

200.64 = 38.20 CD + 61.07 OD +101.37 FD - N/K 1st
196.06 = 37.36 CD + 60.53 OD + 98.17 FD - B/A 2nd
195.85 = 37.39 CD + 59.29 OD + 99.17 FD - G/G 3rd
194.28 = 36.44 CD + 58.34 OD + 99.50 FD - DelShoes 4th

D/L got 37.44 for their CD and 54.36 for their OD with falls. Let's say we give them 4 more points for the OD, and 99.60 points for the FD. Bear in mind that the highest OD score D/L got all season was 57.92 at NHK (they got just 55.42 at the GPF), and the highest FD score they got all season was 96.94 at the GPF.

195.40 = 37.44 CD + 58.36 OD + 99.60 FD - D/L would finish 4th, behind G/G but ahead of Delshoes.

mylastduchess · Mar 17, 2006

chuckm said:
I do not think D/L would have won gold or silver at Torino.
The numbers say not. Here's why:

200.64 = 38.20 CD + 61.07 OD +101.37 FD - N/K 1st
196.06 = 37.36 CD + 60.53 OD + 98.17 FD - B/A 2nd
195.85 = 37.39 CD + 59.29 OD + 99.17 FD - G/G 3rd
194.28 = 36.44 CD + 58.34 OD + 99.50 FD - DelShoes 4th

D/L got 37.44 for their CD and 54.36 for their OD with falls. Let's say we give them 4 more points for the OD, and 99.60 points for the FD. Bear in mind that the highest OD score D/L got all season was 57.92 at NHK (they got just 55.42 at the GPF), and the highest FD score they got all season was 96.94 at the GPF.

195.40 = 37.44 CD + 58.36 OD + 99.60 FD - D/L would finish 4th, behind G/G but ahead of Delshoes.

Yes but usually the points goes higher every competition and the GPF Free dance of the team wasn't particularly flawless, they had various mistakes if they didn't fall they probably would have around 196 too maybe they could have beaten B/A! Not to mention they got a total of 5 points taken away from them in fall -3 grade of execution, then -2 for both skater because they fell, then you have to count the positive Goe they would have gotten for that spin, (lets assume they get a point out of that) so if you add 6 points to their total in the CD, and their OR in the Olympics, plus thier not so good skate at GPF they still would have edged out B/A!

chuckm · Mar 17, 2006

The marks did not go higher for N/K or B/A, and the projected marks I gave D/L for the OD and FD did go higher. The 99.6 I gave them for the FS (assuming no mistakes, and that is assuming a lot) is more than 2.5 points higher than the score they got at the GPF.

I do not believe that D/L could have beaten B/A in the OD. They were 3 points behind the Grushgons in the OD at the GPF, and the Grushgons were behind B/A at Torino. If you actually look at the protocols for the OD, B/A beat D/L all the way up to the final lift D/L fell on.

Your 5 points are way too generous. D/L got only -1.21 GOE overall for the fall on the final move. +2 GOE does not add 2 additional points to the base value. The increment for +GOE depends on the level of the move and its base value. The final lift was level3 with a base value of 3.5 points. A +1 to +2 GOE would only add +0.57-0.73. The 4 extra points I gave them compensated not only for the fall deductions and the -GOE, but added a generous 0.79 for +GOE.

temperboy27 · Mar 17, 2006

Alot of the skaters were getting PBs at the Olympics. Season best is no big deal. I agree that Dubreuil and Lauzon would have won the silver had they not fallen in their final lift in the original dance, and been able to skate the free dance.

chuckm · Mar 18, 2006

temperboy27 said:
Alot of the skaters were getting PBs at the Olympics. Season best is no big deal. I agree that Dubreuil and Lauzon would have won the silver had they not fallen in their final lift in the original dance, and been able to skate the free dance.

No, they were not.

NAVKA / KOSTOMAROV 202.32 Europeans
NAVKA / KOSTOMAROV 200.64 Olympics
BELBIN / AGOSTO 199.73 4CC
BELBIN / AGOSTO 196.06 Olympics
GRUSHINA / GONCHAROV 196.73 Europeans
GRUSHINA / GONCHAROV 195.85 Olympics
DELOBEL / SCHOENFELDER 194.49 Europeans
DELOBEL / SCHOENFELDER 194.28 Olympics
DROBIAZKO / VANAGAS 196.18 Europeans
DROBIAZKO / VANAGAS 183.21 Olympics
CHAIT / SAKHNOVSKI 188.91 Europeans
CHAIT / SAKHONOVSKY 181.16 Olympics
DOMNINA / SHABALIN 175.72 Europeans
DOMNINA / SHABALIN 173.76 Olympics

The fact is NONE of the top ice dance teams had their personal bests at the Olympics. Nothing can convince me that D/L would have been the only team to do so, and leapfrog over teams who had beaten them at the GPF and/or Worlds 2005.

There is nothing in the protocols for the OD to suggest that they would have won it over G/G and B/A had they not fallen. And who is to say that D/L would have skated a completely clean FD? Patrice and Marie both have been known to have problems with twizzles and footwork, and nerves might very well have gotten to them. At every Worlds for the past few years they have had a major mistake in either the OD or the FD. At Torino, it happened to be the OD, and it was a very major mistake that sadly took them out of the competition.

It's very easy to say coulda woulda shoulda, but it didn't happen. D/L fell in the OD and could not skate the FD, and the medals went to other teams---not surprisingly, the same teams that finished on the podium at 2005 Worlds, where D/L finished 7th.

D/L have a chance to show what they can do in Calgary. Let's wait and see how it all turns out.

Joesitz (RIP) · Mar 18, 2006

Dubreuil and Lauzon, imo, are one of the few dance teams that actually dance on ice. Their technique is such that one wonders what is their best side. While the tricks they do are outstanding, they never showcase them. Their entire program just flows as one piece. Only the Kerrs can do this as well, imo.

However, the flashy styles and the stressing of tricks, the flailing arms all over the place will top them. But that's how it is in Danceland.

Joe

chuckm · Mar 18, 2006

D/L do the same "tricks" as all the other ice dance teams. Go check the protocols and you will see their moves are no different from any other team's. Where they are lacking is speed, power on the twizzles and footwork skills. Those are basics for ice dancing, not "tricks".

The only thing they don't do that many of the other teams do is hold the skate to the head, and maybe that's because Marie France doesn't quite have the flexibility at 31 to do that for the extra credit.

mylastduchess · Mar 18, 2006

chuckm said:
The only thing they don't do that many of the other teams do is hold the skate to the head, and maybe that's because Marie France doesn't quite have the flexibility at 31 to do that for the extra credit.

Marie-France doesn't hold her leg to her head because their lifts are hard and unique enough that they don't have to do those god ugly moves! - and for choreography sake unlike other teams that just hold their leg to their heads just because they couldn't come up with anything better!

Dee4707 · Mar 19, 2006

I am so happy that Marie France's hip is healing and that they will be going to Worlds. :clap:

Dee

Ladskater · Mar 19, 2006

demarinis5 said:
I really like this team. If the fall had not happened in Torino I am
sure they would have won gold or silver. IMO their programs are
more technically difficult then T/B. Hopefully her hip injury will not
hinder them at Worlds. They have the goods to take the gold.

I agree - they were in contention for gold or silver. It reminded me of Barb Underhill and Paul Martini at the 1984 Olympics - they were strong contenders for the gold medal until they had a almost at the end of their program. Barb and Paul went on that year to become the World champions. Let's hope the same happens fro D&L - they deserve it.

Yea!! I am happy to hear the great news!!!

:clap:

Pixie Cut · Mar 19, 2006

Ladskater said:
It reminded me of Barb Underhill and Paul Martini at the 1984 Olympics - they were strong contenders for the gold medal until they had a almost at the end of their program. Barb and Paul went on that year to become the World champions. Let's hope the same happens fro D&L - they deserve it.

Except Underhill and Martini went into the 1984 season as the reigning World bronze medallists (perhaps deserving of higher) and just had some sort of bizarre happening in both the short and long programs at the Olympics.

Dubreuil and Lauzon have never even been in the top six at Worlds. To their advantage, half of the top six in Turin won't be at Worlds. Maybe they will win, but it seems highly unlikely they will defeat teams they've rarely if ever beaten.

Joesitz (RIP) · Mar 19, 2006

chuckm said:
D/L do the same "tricks" as all the other ice dance teams. Go check the protocols and you will see their moves are no different from any other team's. Where they are lacking is speed, power on the twizzles and footwork skills. Those are basics for ice dancing, not "tricks".

Either I was not clear or you misunderstood me. The tricks are indeed as good as any other team. However, they don't make an issue of them which is a trait I enjoy watching. It's all part of the whole package. I think they are special in that area. JMO.

The only thing they don't do that many of the other teams do is hold the skate to the head, and maybe that's because Marie France doesn't quite have the flexibility at 31 to do that for the extra credit.

It's not something I would care about.

Joe

euterpe · Mar 19, 2006

Pixie Cut said:
Except Underhill and Martini went into the 1984 season as the reigning World bronze medallists (perhaps deserving of higher) and just had some sort of bizarre happening in both the short and long programs at the Olympics.

Dubreuil and Lauzon have never even been in the top six at Worlds. To their advantage, half of the top six in Turin won't be at Worlds. Maybe they will win, but it seems highly unlikely they will defeat teams they've rarely if ever beaten.

I tend to agree with this. Marie France is still only 80% recovered from her injury, and that will be a factor.

However, it would be more accurate to say two of the Olympic medalwinners are not competing. Three teams who D/L have never defeated at Worlds are still in there: B/A, Den/Sta and Delshoes, and they are still active medal contenders. I see Drobiazko/Vanagas as a longshot for the podium.

Delshoes are a team which tends to peak at the end of the season, and they did finish 4th in the Olympics, perhaps because they made no fatal mistakes in the CD or OD, unlike Den/Sta, Drobiazko/Vanagas and Chasakhs.

It may all come down to skating cleanly, and that may be more difficult for D/L because of her injury.

Mafke · Mar 19, 2006

euterpe said:
I
Delshoes are a team which tends to peak at the end of the season, and they did finish 4th in the Olympics, perhaps because they made no fatal mistakes in the CD or OD, unlike Den/Sta, Drobiazko/Vanagas and Chasakhs.

I hope the french team wins gold, I don't follow dance for lots of reasons especially when they have to do something 'latin' (I've explained why on another thread) but they were far from the worst at that at olys (and he had something resembling a latin line, the only skater in the top six or so teams I could say that about)* and they had the only FD that I actually enjoyed and wasn't mentally fast forwarding thru. I understand that they're not the best matched team going and even worse, she's not up to his standard (it seems more acceptable if the female is better than the male in dance) but I enjoy them most.

*Agosto's impromptu boogying as they waited to leave the ice was much better than anything in the OD IMO.

Dubruil/Lauzon Announcment

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