Cohen's beauty and polish not appreciated?
- Thread starter temperboy27
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2006
In my opinion, skater may also influence judges in other ways when they skate. If a skater skates with confidence, such as Sasha did in her short program at the Olympics and Kimmie in her long program at Worlds, the judges will pick up on that as well as the audience. This then can lead to higher PCS.
Last edited:
Mathman said:
No, Meissner's 110.8 was at TEB, not NHK. If Meissner had scored 110.8 at NHK, she would have won the gold medal and gone to the GPF, displacing Ando.
Shizuka's highest FS score before Torino was 116.04 at 2005 CoC, where she actually beat Mao Asada in the FS, but lost to her overall because of Mao's SP score. Shizuka also beat Sasha in the FS at 2005 TEB, 115.32 to 114.16, again falling to 3rd overall because of the SP. Shizuka's big coup was working on her SP and bringing that up high enough to virtually tie with Irina and Sasha at Torino.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
At her two GP events didnt Shizuka have her triple flip counted as a double in the short program both times, because it was not fully rotated? That probably cost her 2nd place at both events and of course being in the GP final.
Dee4707 said:
Cohen, Czisny, Kostner, Ando, Hughes to name a few specific names. the other top skaters I can think of have had at least one clean long in a major comp (Meissner, Kwan, Slutskaya, Suguri come immediately to my mind).
Could have forgotten some other people as well, but this is good enough for now
Red Dog said:
If they were counting jumps at the Olympics, Sasha still would have been ahead of Irina and Fumie. She attempted and rotated 7 triples (2 more than Shizuka) and landed 5 (same as Shiz, more than Irina and Fumie).
Last edited by a moderator:
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
Actually Suguri did 5 clean triples, same as Sasha. Although Sasha landed 5 somewhat clean too, the value of 2 were diminished in COP by being in a sequence, and one was not totally clean either.
The judges have been extremely generous to Cohen over the years. The international judges appreciate her, but they have taken off for her errors and weaknesses more than the US judges have. (lack of strong edges, weak landings on jumps, numerous 2 footed landings throughout her career when she was finally able to land her jumps, weak technique at times)
Her "beauty and form" have always been rewarded and I don't know that it was a good thing for Cohen. From inside sources, Cohen always thought this would "hold her up." I guess she was wrong at Worlds!
Her Olympic Silver was a huge gift and proof that the international judges love her. Her spot on the World podium could also be debated, and for obvious reasons.
Her "beauty and form" have always been rewarded and I don't know that it was a good thing for Cohen. From inside sources, Cohen always thought this would "hold her up." I guess she was wrong at Worlds!
Her Olympic Silver was a huge gift and proof that the international judges love her. Her spot on the World podium could also be debated, and for obvious reasons.
There's a bit more to jumps than just rotating. Sasha may have rotated 7 triples, but she fell on one, landed badly on another, and two footed a 3rd. She gets deductions for those mistakes, so no way should 3 flawed jumps out of 7, beat 5 clean ones.
It's the same as saying Buttle has a quad because he can rotate 4 times in the air, but how often has he landed a clean one?
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2004
Frankly, I think Cohen's "beauty" and grace are OVER appreciated, both by the judges and by a lot of fans. The judges have used it for years to prop her up much higher than she ought to have been, and her fans use it as a reason why she is better than any otehr skater ever.
And of course, this MK fan has to call that 2 falls, too, after all, when Michelle fell SLC, booty never hit the ice, yet over 50% weight was in hands!
come on now, EVERY fan has an "excuse" as to why their favorite skater is the "best ever" (more commonly known as "their favorite in the first place"). Otherwise, they wouldn't be a fan in the first place, right...duh!
I also thought that Cohen's second jump at Torino should also have been a fall, since more than 50% of her weight was supported by her hands. I have seen judges ding skaters with a fall when it was far less clear-cut. The Torino judges cut Sasha a huge break.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
And we know how much you defend Sasha against any remark others make.
I forget now, did Irina lose by less than 2 points or less than 1 point? If the judges counted that fall as a fall, I think Sasha only loses one point, unless they admit a fall DOES weight in on SS or disrupt IN, etc. and point her accordingly, then Irina may have gotten Silver. I'm just not convinced Irina skated better than Sasha at Turin, same as I believe she did not skate better than Michelle at SLC. While I didn't think Sasha had a Silver medal worthy LP, I do think she should have been above Irina...
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Sasha beat Irina by 1.89 points in the LP and 1.92 points overall. If Sasha had been charged with a second fall she would have lost an extra 1.14 points (a couple of the judges gave her -2 instead of -3 GOE). So Sasha still would have won if everything else (the PCSs for instance) had remained the same.
I thought that Sasha's scores were appropriate, but Irina's PCSs were inflated for that particular performance.
I thought that Sasha's scores were appropriate, but Irina's PCSs were inflated for that particular performance.
Of course you do. You would.
Similar threads
